Data throttling

[Yeahha]

So companies should not make changes to make sure they can stay viable because there is no perceived strain on resources to the consumer and public? The current sprint model and the grandfathered models for AT&T and VZW are non-viable. The carrier is offering unlimited access to a limited resource which will in the end hurt consumer and carrier. The consumer will have to deal with slow networks due to congestion and the carrier will be hurt by the consumer's view of the company.

The link Zuben posted shows the public is adjusting to the rules set forth and finding ways to play by them, which is a good thing IMO.

Rico my status on this site has nothing to do with my interpretation of the posts I commented on. I was addressing your comment and retort to DJ's response from this post http://androidforums.com/lounge/500631-data-throttling-4.html#post4027806 you had claimed there was no shortage of bandwidth in contrast to the carriers saying otherwise. When asked for proof you did not provide any and instead asked to be proved wrong.

I do think there should be some standardization of the wireless throttling and can agree that AT&T's current practice is much less fair to customers than VZW's. IMO the limits of when a customer is throttled should be reviewed at regular intervals and adjuster accordingly either by a public agency or with data that is made available to that public agency.

 

[Rico ANDROID]

Thank you yeahha for your clarification. Now to clarify once again... my comment is meant as "neither'n of the big carriers going to go out of business and neither of the big carriers will be bankrupt because of any bandwitldth so-called shortage".. Nowhere did I say DJ was wrong.. But you sure did outright tell me that I was proven wrong. That doesnt matter whose right or wrong

The companies will be here long long after you and I have moved on. It was you who said you cant stand a customer who complains insteadbof just moving on. I do believe a post this morning helps identify reasons a customer sticks with a carrier even if they dont like current issues.

Ive moved on to the topic at hand. If my posting about .questioning bandwidth offends you so much, tben I retract the comment. Please move on to the topolcc itself , throttling

 

[tommy_ed]

While saying good for your experience and that I too, have had good results with problems ive had with my att services. But will have to agree to disagree about how the majority of both att and verizons customers rated their customer satisfaction. Reports shows that both are lacking tremendously in that area

You know, I don't think any wireless company is better than the other when it comes to customer service. At least mostly the same. It all depends on what rep you talk to, and each company has good and bad reps. Now I will say (and I've even written a letter to my corporate rep about this, I work in a Verizon store) that better call monitoring needs to be implemented. If these reps were being actively listened to and disciplined more strictly for improper handling of customer service, you would see most of the bad reps either change their ways or get the boot.

The American people needs to realize nothing lasts forever. There are limitations to everything. Look at how this country had wiped out many of the forests thinking oh the trees will grow back. We here people cry about recycle use less of a resource to make it last. Why are so many up in arms when cell companies try to regulate the data speeds so all can enjoy it. People forgets that there are other people on the same network and is it fair for you to try and hog everything.

How is cellular data not a renewable resource? Are there cell data mines I'm unaware of? lol

 

[tommy_ed]

Now for the original discussion topic:

Unlimited-
1: lacking any controls : unrestricted <unlimited access>

2: boundless, infinite <unlimited possibilities>

3: not bounded by exceptions : undefined <the unlimited and unconditional surrender of the enemy

 

[Dark Jedi]

Now for the original discussion topic:

Unlimited-
1: lacking any controls : unrestricted <unlimited access>

2: boundless, infinite <unlimited possibilities>

3: not bounded by exceptions : undefined <the unlimited and unconditional surrender of the enemy

 

[Yeahha]

Sounds good...Throttling IMO I think that AT&T's current throttling method is outdated and the wrong approach. I still think throttling is needed at some points but there should be regulation or something that has the carrier outline when a line is subject (what the threshold is) and the throttling should only be in affect if the network is in fact congested at the time. Cutting a customer's bandwidth at any because they have exceeded a specific amount of bandwidth regardless of the current stress on the network is not needed IMO and shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Rico ANDROID]

DJ, thats why I luvya man! You say it like it is! Always be the Dark Jedi that you are.

Tommy! EXACTLY! You are so correct. Theres good and bad no matter where you go. A consumer simply swap a bucket of issues for another bucket wherever they may jump ship on day 1 or 2 and go. The sensible thing to do is just what youve said, get a knowledgeable rep and or mgr and see what can be done.. If you cant get a resolution the consider other options before lining a carriers pocket with phat etfs.

Yep, throttling is not unlimited its is restriction! Thank you Tommy!

 

[Rico ANDROID]

Again unlimited data mean content being sent over the internet. Data dont mean speeds. I can give you the speeds of dial up but I dont hinder you from using your data to send and recieve content.

So the us gov is illegally throttling me in my car because my car can go 140mph but they say I can only go 65 mph?

DeeeJay, you can go as faaaast at you want and then some on the freeways...theres nothing on that pavement thats pulling your car back like a bunjy cord.......just dont let the bloo lights catcha....or you will get "throttled"

 

[Dark Jedi]

Wow I love being censored. Its just like you said rico it is on ATT site. only say nice things about the site. If not they delete your posts.

 

[Dark Jedi]

DeeeJay, you can go as faaaast at you want and then some on the freeways...theres nothing on that pavement thats pulling your car back like a bunjy cord.......just dont let the bloo lights catcha....or you will get "throttled"

Ok what about the governors that are on vehicles to keep them from going any faster. My truck says it will do 120 mph. But the governor thats on my truck will only allow me to go 107. I took the govenor off my truck and it does 127 before I back off. So in a way they are trying to hold me back.

 

[Dark Jedi]

You know, I don't think any wireless company is better than the other when it comes to customer service. At least mostly the same. It all depends on what rep you talk to, and each company has good and bad reps. Now I will say (and I've even written a letter to my corporate rep about this, I work in a Verizon store) that better call monitoring needs to be implemented. If these reps were being actively listened to and disciplined more strictly for improper handling of customer service, you would see most of the bad reps either change their ways or get the boot.




How is cellular data not a renewable resource? Are there cell data mines I'm unaware of? lol

No people thinks there is no end to the network that cellphone companies put up. We have seen this with DSL and dial up. Have a bunch of people on at once and it gets unusable. People dont think this as they think I connect to the net and there should be this unlimited speed. Sad to say there isnt. Theres limits to everything.

 

[Rico ANDROID]

Ok what about the governors that are on vehicles to keep them from going any faster. My truck says it will do 120 mph. But the governor thats on my truck will only allow me to go 107. I took the govenor off my truck and it does 127 before I back off. So in a way they are trying to hold me back.

Dude! Now WHYYYY did you have tah go and bring that comparison up?! I hate when the car slows down after reaching a certain speed. Yup, hear you loud and clear.

 

[tommy_ed]

Again unlimited data mean content being sent over the internet. Data dont mean speeds. I can give you the speeds of dial up but I dont hinder you from using your data to send and recieve content.

So the us gov is illegally throttling me in my car because my car can go 140mph but they say I can only go 65 mph?

If the data is being restricted (i.e.; throttled) then it is not truly unlimited. They should say "Pseudo-Unlimited data for $30!" lol

In fact in your example, it's ironic that you use the word "hinder," as its definition is to "create difficulties for (someone or something), resulting in delay or obstruction." Which is exactly what throttling does.

As for the car analogy, it doesn't apply to this situation. Are you in a signed contract with the gvt. concerning speeds? Were you ever offered unlimited speeds while driving by them? Is your driving speed supposedly dragging down the speed of other drivers causing the gvt to slow only your car down?

 

[tommy_ed]

No people thinks there is no end to the network that cellphone companies put up. We have seen this with DSL and dial up. Have a bunch of people on at once and it gets unusable. People dont think this as they think I connect to the net and there should be this unlimited speed. Sad to say there isnt. Theres limits to everything.

Yea I could see that, each tower has its own limits. I guess I don't understand why throttling would not be done on a tower by tower, case by case scale. What if you'r the only person using a tower and you happen to be over your 2GB for the month- you're needlessly being throttled. Just the same if there's 100 people on one tower and a couple people are below their monthly limit but using 70% of the current data being transferred. Shouldn't they be throttled at that time to allow enough data for all the users? I guess my point is that the current system of throttling is rather counter productive and useless to a point.

 

[Dark Jedi]

Again They say unlimited data right? Is DATA a measurement of speed?



Its a real simple question.

 

[Yeahha]

Yea I could see that, each tower has its own limits. I guess I don't understand why throttling would not be done on a tower by tower, case by case scale. What if you'r the only person using a tower and you happen to be over your 2GB for the month- you're needlessly being throttled. Just the same if there's 100 people on one tower and a couple people are below their monthly limit but using 70% of the current data being transferred. Shouldn't they be throttled at that time to allow enough data for all the users? I guess my point is that the current system of throttling is rather counter productive and useless to a point.

AFAIK that is what VZW does. I think it is what is needed not you hit x GB so you have slower speeds for the rest of the month.

 

[Dark Jedi]

Yea I could see that, each tower has its own limits. I guess I don't understand why throttling would not be done on a tower by tower, case by case scale. What if you'r the only person using a tower and you happen to be over your 2GB for the month- you're needlessly being throttled. Just the same if there's 100 people on one tower and a couple people are below their monthly limit but using 70% of the current data being transferred. Shouldn't they be throttled at that time to allow enough data for all the users? I guess my point is that the current system of throttling is rather counter productive and useless to a point.

I can agree with that. I am not saying its right to do. I am saying just because they throttle you they dont keep you from the data you are trying to access. Now if verizon said You have unlimited speeds on the mobile network and then they throttle you. I would say they are in the wrong as they are keeping you from what you pay for. But beings they dont say speed only data. THere is nothing that says you are suppose to get a certain speed for your data use.

 

[tommy_ed]

Again They say unlimited data right? Is DATA a measurement of speed?



Its a real simple question.

No, but they are claiming to offer Unlimited Data, which by definition means data completely without restriction or bounds. Throttling restricts data usage by placing a boundary on how much you use before getting slowed down (restricted). This makes it NOT unlimited by definition.

So nowhere am I claiming that Unlimited refers to speed. I'm saying by definition you can't call something unlimited when it can be restricted after a certain point. Something unlimited has no point in which it would
become restricted. That is by definition what makes it unlimited.

Sorry I know that was a tad redundant, but I just wanted to make sure I made my point understandable. Real simple answer.

 

[Rico ANDROID]

Yea I could see that, each tower has its own limits. I guess I don't understand why throttling would not be done on a tower by tower, case by case scale. What if you'r the only person using a tower and you happen to be over your 2GB for the month- you're needlessly being throttled. Just the same if there's 100 people on one tower and a couple people are below their monthly limit but using 70% of the current data being transferred. Shouldn't they be throttled at that time to allow enough data for all the users? I guess my point is that the current system of throttling is rather counter productive and useless to a point.

This is exactly what I meant too, when chosing the "lesser' of two evils" when it comes to deciding (at renewal or etf) which methodbof throttling one can stomach, or go with , hopefully, any new uprising carriers that has unlimited. While att "top 5" got exposed to really being anyone going over the now 3GB after the 2GB revelation bit them (i have to mention it all else it will get misquoted)... ,

Then I think ive read that verizon throttles at the "tower specific" level when a tower is congested it slows down, but just for the time of congestion. Dark Jedi is that right? If so, id rather choose the verizon's "evil"bn over atts total clampdown until next billing cycle.

Tommy, ylur analys is rig ht on the money

 

[Dark Jedi]

Can you access data while throttled? Do they turn off your mobile internet after x gig is reached?

Then its unlimited. as you can still access all the data you want right?

So are people who has unlimited data plan lives in a 4g area and lose their 4g and have to go on 3g being throttled? because they can only access their data at slower speeds? They pay for 4g right and not getting their 4g.

 

[Rico ANDROID]

Can you access data while throttled? Do they turn off your mobile internet after x gig is reached?

Then its unlimited. as you can still access all the data you want right?

So are people who has unlimited data plan lives in a 4g area and lose their 4g and have to go on 3g being throttled? because they can only access their data at slower speeds? They pay for 4g right and not getting their 4g.

DJ, you know the buzz is "not"just about whether or not you can still "connect" to the data when its throttled. Thats the "technicality" the carrier use to say "i said you have data,,but I didnt promise you speed"... in their ads , they DO promise speed as the NATIONS FASTEST NETWORK and as fir verizon "ROOLING THE AIR". So if they want to fall back on saying "we never promised you speed"... Then they need to now cjange their false advertisements too

 

[Dark Jedi]

Then I think ive read that verizon throttles at the "tower specific" level when a tower is congested it slows down, but just for the time of congestion. Dark Jedi is that right? If so, id rather choose the verizon's "evil"bn over atts total clampdown until next billing cycle.

Tommy, ylur analys is rig ht on the money

I guess its right with verizon. I have noticed my speeds are better between 1am to about 7am. During the day it fluctuates and have periods of slow down. So it does sound like verizon does it this way.

I think thats how throttling should be based on congestion at the towers. Then slow it down when to many people are on it at the moment. Then when theres not as many on the tower the restriction is lifted. I think we can agree on that right?

 

[Yeahha]

No, but they are claiming to offer Unlimited Data, which by definition means data completely without restriction or bounds. Throttling restricts data usage by placing a boundary on how much you use before getting slowed down (restricted). This makes it NOT unlimited by definition.

So nowhere am I claiming that Unlimited refers to speed. I'm saying by definition you can't call something unlimited when it can be restricted after a certain point. Something unlimited has no point in which it would
become restricted. That is by definition what makes it unlimited.

Sorry I know that was a tad redundant, but I just wanted to make sure I made my point understandable. Real simple answer.

By definition then unthrottled unlimited is also not unlimited, there is always a cap to which data can be consumed over the network. If you say it is not unlimited because they lower the cap why would you call it unlimited if they didn't. If the maximum speed at which I can download something is 10 mbps there is a limit to how much I can download in a month. Changing the cap doesn't change the fact that it is still limited and being called unlimited.

IMO unlimited in this sense should be looked at as not tiered meaning regardless of how much you use you are charged the same if it is 1 GB or 100 GB you will pay the same amount.

 

[AntimonyER]

Even if the carriers had a bandwidth problem, the way they went about fixing it, was very misleading to customers. By allowing people to be grandfathered in to their unlimited plans, the implication was since you are a loyal customer, we will allow you to keep your unlimited plan in return for you renewing your contract. But a lot of those customers are NOT getting the same experience they had before they signed the new contract, they are now getting throttled at 3GB (was 2GB last couple months apparently). THe truth is, AT&T most likely knew that even with the introduction of tiered data, their network wasn't going to be adequate for the demand. They could have been honest, and switched everyone to tiered upon contract renewal, or stated up front that the unlimited would be switched to a T-Mobile style "unlimited" for grandfathered customers. But that would have caused a large number of people not to renew, so instead they hid behind their old plan, and when their available bandwidth started dwindling, used the small print in the contracts to alter the status quo. Not illegal, not a violation of contract, but misleading for sure.

 

[Rico ANDROID]

I guess its right with verizon. I have noticed my speeds are better between 1am to about 7am. During the day it fluctuates and have periods of slow down. So it does sound like verizon does it this way.

I think thats how throttling should be based on congestion at the towers. Then slow it down when to many people are on it at the moment. Then when theres not as many on the tower the restriction is lifted. I think we can agree on that right?

....And if there "is" a need for some sort.of throttling, this would be more palatable for many over a complete halt till the next billing cycle.