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Does google need to be held accountable?
- Thread starter northernale1
- Start date
powerkiter
Android Expert
OK well I'm with northernale.
I got this phone when it first hit the UK and yes I researched the phone like mad! I had an LG KC910 that was due an upgrade.
When I searched through all the SE blogs and what not looking for info I went for the X10 as we was promised via updates:
HD recording in September (before the 2.1 update) which is now to come with 2.1
2.1 in Q4 which was then moved to Q3 and now back to Q4
Multi touch
16m colours (the res of the X10 is bellow what the old SE K750 from 2007)
Also to me "Android" is an "open" system so why would SE lock the bootloader tighter than a ducks butt?
I could understand that when the X10 was being developed 1.6 was out and 2.1 was in the pipe line and SE did back port a lot of the stuff from 2.1 and the X10 OS even uses the 2.1 kernel. So it was inevitable it would be released with 1.6 but there is only a skin over the OS so why it has taken so long is a joke, I would rather they just opened the bootloader and let those who want to install 2.2 on the phone can there is not one thing from SE on the phone I use.
But back on topic SE did lie through their teeth when the phone came out and people like me got this phone based on the lies fed to us by SE! So the phone was sold based on deception. And with the X12 planned for release it will be the new flagship phone so I doubt we will see 2.2 which again was promised by SE to be released in Q1-2 of 2011, which is looking like another lie.
Surely it has given android a bad rep in lots of peoples eyes???
But as I have said since the first day I joined here...
They have given more surport for the X10 than they did the Satio which was their flagship phone until the X10 but they did drop the Satio almost as soon as it came out, so they did learn something from that.
I got this phone when it first hit the UK and yes I researched the phone like mad! I had an LG KC910 that was due an upgrade.
When I searched through all the SE blogs and what not looking for info I went for the X10 as we was promised via updates:
HD recording in September (before the 2.1 update) which is now to come with 2.1
2.1 in Q4 which was then moved to Q3 and now back to Q4
Multi touch
16m colours (the res of the X10 is bellow what the old SE K750 from 2007)
Also to me "Android" is an "open" system so why would SE lock the bootloader tighter than a ducks butt?
I could understand that when the X10 was being developed 1.6 was out and 2.1 was in the pipe line and SE did back port a lot of the stuff from 2.1 and the X10 OS even uses the 2.1 kernel. So it was inevitable it would be released with 1.6 but there is only a skin over the OS so why it has taken so long is a joke, I would rather they just opened the bootloader and let those who want to install 2.2 on the phone can there is not one thing from SE on the phone I use.
But back on topic SE did lie through their teeth when the phone came out and people like me got this phone based on the lies fed to us by SE! So the phone was sold based on deception. And with the X12 planned for release it will be the new flagship phone so I doubt we will see 2.2 which again was promised by SE to be released in Q1-2 of 2011, which is looking like another lie.
Surely it has given android a bad rep in lots of peoples eyes???
But as I have said since the first day I joined here...
They have given more surport for the X10 than they did the Satio which was their flagship phone until the X10 but they did drop the Satio almost as soon as it came out, so they did learn something from that.
CuBz
Android Expert
I agree with you on the point about the bootloader, I also think it should be open for people to install the OS of their choice.
On the main subject tho, maybe I missed it, but I don't remember SE every promising 2.2, but as I stated earlier, I could be wrong, maybe it was just something I missed. To be honest, I really don't think the Xperia will ever see 2.2, and I believe they are trying to cover this up, and I would agree with the people who would be pissed off with that, although I wouldn't be too bothered myself, as I said, the phone has everything I need.
I understand where you are coming from, completely, but northenale just doesn't seem to know what he is talking about, he was pointing out the UXP update as if it was the first, main 2.1 update. Everyone has a different opinion, and I respect that, but from what you have said, I really must have missed some of it, as everything I researched before getting the phone, was never let down
I also must add my opinion on SE...They made a huge mistake with the Xperia X10, but this is their first Android handset. They have had great support on the handset (sort of) and I'm sure they will improve with future Android handsets. But I did research on all the top phones, and chose to go for the Xperia. I know a few lads that own a few phones, including the Iphone 4 and the Xperia X10, and most of them thought the Xperia X10 as their favourite, and after I had a play around with them, I also prefered the Xperia to the Iphone, although alot of others would thing differently.
MrWomble
Android Expert
Sorry to point this out but Sony never PROMISED
These are direct quotes taken from the Sony blog going back to 2009 - Xperia X10 | Product Launch Blog
Tuesday, November 3rd, 2009
Today we announce the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10, our first phone based on the Android OS. We think this phone will be something extra and are incredibly excited about the launch!
Thursday, November 5th, 2009
Let me introduce myself. I am Sumit Malhotra, Global marketing manager for Xperia X10.
* Will it have multi-touch in future updates?
Xperia X10 has a capacitive screen. It does not support multi-touch functionality at launch, but is considered for the future.
* How many colors does the screen support?
I noticed the confusion in the communction around this topic, but the correct number is 65,536.
* Will the X10 receive Android 2.0 update (for those who bought from the initial batches with Android 1.6) ?
The UX platform used for Xperia X10 will evolve to Android 2.0 over time.
Friday, February 5th, 2010
I have felt some skepticism in the air since people tend to have adopted quickly to Android release version as their context of competiveness.
I am not trying to hide from the fact that there are platform upgrades between android 1.6 and 2.1, if utilized can enhance the experience for developers and users. Having that said, I have had discussions with carriers that are very sensitive and concerned generally about taking on devices in their range that are not competetive enough.
Rikard Skogberg says:
March 27, 2010 at 8:13 pm
David and others about the screen in X10,
I don’t have any technical details around the screen to share, sorry! – However I have now gotten confirmation on the question of multi touch. As said earlier there’s no multitouch in X10 – and I also can confirm that it’s not only related to SW but also to HW.
Wednesday, May 5th, 2010
Some examples of user benefits that will be included in the UXP upgrade for Xperia™ X10 in Q4 2010 are:
- Upgrade to Android OS version 2.1
- HD video recording as per the same execution as Sony Ericsson Vivaz™
- Wireless home connectivity via DLNA
- Improvements to signature applications Timescape™ and Mediascape to make them even smarter and richer
I would also like to emphasise that there will be an additional smaller software update, already in the next couple of weeks aiming to enhance the usability and performance of Xperia™ X10. In the next post, I will share more details and precise timings for when this update will be released.
Wednesday, June 16th, 2010
Previously on this blog we communicated that we will update our 2010 Xperia phones (Xperia X10, X10 mini and X10 mini pro) to Android OS 2.1 in Q4. We are today happy to confirm that all of these phones will now get the update to Android 2.1 from the latter part of Q3 and onwards (timing will vary from market to market, some will be in Q4.
Hope this puts everything to bed - we were never promised Multi-Touch it was something that would be "considered for the future" (now bearing in mind that Apple were granted a patent for a Multi-Touch screen in February
Apple granted patent on capacitive multitouch displays -- Engadget
then its logical to think that Sony - being cash strapped, scrapped the planned future touch screen update because of this - and Apple's lawsuits with HTC over patents which included touchscreen
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-sues-htc-for-infringing-20-iphone-patents/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-specifically-going-after-android-in-htc-lawsuit/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/03/google-responds-to-apples-htc-lawsuit-we-stand-behind-our-and/
so decided to stick to a normal single touch capacative screen
As for the 2.1 Upgrade - well back in 2009 we were only ever PROMISED 2.0 - which was increased to 2.1 so this is a bonus
The timing of the upgrade as you see says Q3 but some will take till Q4 - so again nothing promised and not delivered - as for ROGERS saying 2011 then i can only put that down to carrier Roll-Out as some networks do take longer than others to approve software (as Vodafone UK users can attest to)
As for screen colours, yes 16m colours is SUPPORTED by android 2.1 but does not have to be implimented - Sony has NEVER said that they will increase the colours to 16M so yet again - nothing promised to fail to deliver (hey - my car is capable of 150mph but i don't drive that fast all the time
)And as a tribute to CuBz i promised myself that 1 smiley
Hopefully - Hopefully this clears up all the misgivings people have in regard to what was promised, what will be delivered and when
powerkiter
Android Expert
Not arguing here but...
Yes you would go back to the dealers but if you buy a Mitsubishi car and the car has an engine that is made by Nissan and the car kept breaking down then the engine is grouped in with the car by the owner and so the Nissan engine gets a bad name the Nissan will pull the supply of said engine to save a bad rep
Swap car for "phone" Mitsubishi for "Sony Ericsson" and Nissan for "Android" and... Well it all makes sense to me
CuBz
Android Expert
Not arguing here but...
Yes you would go back to the dealers but if you buy a Mitsubishi car and the car has an engine that is made by Nissan and the car kept breaking down then the engine is grouped in with the car by the owner and so the Nissan engine gets a bad name the Nissan will pull the supply of said engine to save a bad rep
Swap car for "phone" Mitsubishi for "Sony Ericsson" and Nissan for "Android" and... Well it all makes sense to me
That, in no way at all, is a good comparison. Google provides an OS not the hardware, so comparing an engine to an OS is not a good conception.
powerkiter
Android Expert
@Mrwomble, I have read most of them quotes from the blogs and I have also read others from the blogs that have either been edited or removed! Not to forget that when they launched the X10 on AT&T they had in big letters "MULTI TOUCH" that soon got edited...
SE does not know it's arsehole from it's elbow, and at one point even had contradictory info on the same page of the blogs, they also shouted about how they was going to release the X8 with 2.1 and then changed that.
Also a lot of what I read was from the blogsters replying to questions in the blog comments, again show they dont know their arsehole from their elbow.
The only reason I have kept the X10 is it's screen size and the fact it looks the nicest Android phone out at the moment.
SE does not know it's arsehole from it's elbow, and at one point even had contradictory info on the same page of the blogs, they also shouted about how they was going to release the X8 with 2.1 and then changed that.
Also a lot of what I read was from the blogsters replying to questions in the blog comments, again show they dont know their arsehole from their elbow.
The only reason I have kept the X10 is it's screen size and the fact it looks the nicest Android phone out at the moment.
powerkiter
Android Expert
Why what powers the car and what powers the phone?
northernale1
Android Enthusiast
well from what ive seen ,, for every one person that is totally satisfied 20 are not,,,and when reading the word android gets used alot,,,
now from a marketing standpoint im sure google cant be happy about it,, as someone who is not totally familiar with all products could interpret it as a android based problem,,
like i said its a good phone,, not a great phone and SE will never allow it to be a great phone,,,
now from a marketing standpoint im sure google cant be happy about it,, as someone who is not totally familiar with all products could interpret it as a android based problem,,
like i said its a good phone,, not a great phone and SE will never allow it to be a great phone,,,
MrWomble
Android Expert
1 - The X8 was never announced as running 2.1 - it has always been out as 1.6
2 - Multi-Touch i believe was a marketing error by AT&T/SonyStyle and not an advertised PROMISE by SE to provide this facility
3 - What blog posts have i removed or edited ???
Oh and for the whole purpose of pedantic humour
PETROL POWERS THE CAR
BATTERY POWERS THE PHONE
powerkiter
Android Expert
LOL
3, I didnt mean you had edited or removed, the SE blogs have changed... I went back to a book marked blog that had done the copy & paste thing from only to go back one day and the wording had changed???
3, I didnt mean you had edited or removed, the SE blogs have changed... I went back to a book marked blog that had done the copy & paste thing from only to go back one day and the wording had changed???
CuBz
Android Expert
The engine runs the car, but that does not compare to an OS on a handset. You could however, compare it to the hardware inside the phone, which was by SE not Google
powerkiter
Android Expert
But to be fair the original quote
"If you bought a car from a local dealer you wouldn't go straight to head office to get a service done would you"
Is as bad as my analogy as if you brought a car from a ford dealer you would go to ford's head office if you got a bad service from the dealer but the car is all ford.
The phone is SE and the OS is Android so two company's, so we're both using crap analogy's but I just thought I would try and stick with the car one
EDIT:
And to go back to the OP!
Android are pissed that phone makers are stamping their own UI on to Android and from what I have read they are clamping down for Ver3.0 and wont allow any skins to be added so Android is generic across the board. Much like Vista is Vista on any PC.
"If you bought a car from a local dealer you wouldn't go straight to head office to get a service done would you"
Is as bad as my analogy as if you brought a car from a ford dealer you would go to ford's head office if you got a bad service from the dealer but the car is all ford.
The phone is SE and the OS is Android so two company's, so we're both using crap analogy's but I just thought I would try and stick with the car one
EDIT:
And to go back to the OP!
Android are pissed that phone makers are stamping their own UI on to Android and from what I have read they are clamping down for Ver3.0 and wont allow any skins to be added so Android is generic across the board. Much like Vista is Vista on any PC.
slugpace
Member
We are not getting anywhere by comparing the phone to a car.
SE made a mistake with the multi touch claim, then corrected that mistake. The only gripe you could have is if it wasn't a mistake, but a deliberate ploy to sell more phones.
Another mistake, with the benefit of hindsight, was to move the 2.1 update from Q4 to Q3. They should have just left it at Q4 the whole time, and if then, they did manage Q3, everyone would have been delighted.
SE made a mistake with the multi touch claim, then corrected that mistake. The only gripe you could have is if it wasn't a mistake, but a deliberate ploy to sell more phones.
Another mistake, with the benefit of hindsight, was to move the 2.1 update from Q4 to Q3. They should have just left it at Q4 the whole time, and if then, they did manage Q3, everyone would have been delighted.
MrWomble
Android Expert
Ok, lets scrap the car (though i thought most people would understanr that one.)
If you have a problem with a Sony handset you go to the dealer, your carrier, then Sony - same with Nokia, Samsung, Motorola - whoever
So why if you have a problem with the X10 do you immediately say that Google should get involved. Remember its not Google that has the problem with the X10, but the end users themselves that believe they should have 2.1/2.2 like right now. If thats what we're basing this on, then remember - patience is a virtue - and my mam always said "i want, never gets"
If you have a problem with a Sony handset you go to the dealer, your carrier, then Sony - same with Nokia, Samsung, Motorola - whoever
So why if you have a problem with the X10 do you immediately say that Google should get involved. Remember its not Google that has the problem with the X10, but the end users themselves that believe they should have 2.1/2.2 like right now. If thats what we're basing this on, then remember - patience is a virtue - and my mam always said "i want, never gets"
northernale1
Android Enthusiast
cause like i said alot of the feedback is stating android,, and someone looking at going the android route may be scared off,,
so like i said from a marketing stand point im sure google is not jumping for joy with SE handling,,,
so like i said from a marketing stand point im sure google is not jumping for joy with SE handling,,,
slugpace
Member
I wasn't talking about the legal side of things, I was meaning whether the battery is an engine, or petrol, or whatever. The day I can drive my phone to work or speak to my wife by shouting up my exhaust pipe then fair enough.
powerkiter
Android Expert
I thought it was about the Android OS getting a bad rep from the X10...
To be fair there are other phones that give Android a bad rep too, and as I said for Ver3.0 Android are really going to limit what the phone company's can do to edit it so there is a more universal no matter what phone it is on.
I understand what Northernale is saying and Android should have certain criteria the phone makers should meet to run the Android OS.
To be fair there are other phones that give Android a bad rep too, and as I said for Ver3.0 Android are really going to limit what the phone company's can do to edit it so there is a more universal no matter what phone it is on.
I understand what Northernale is saying and Android should have certain criteria the phone makers should meet to run the Android OS.
northernale1
Android Enthusiast
thanks Power,, that is all im trying to say,, if google wants to survive,, they need to tread carefully.. even though its open source there needs to be boundaries,,,
and im sure if anybody has really learnt a lesson here it will be google
as no one can deny there is alot of unhappy and angry x10 users,, with the reasons being very apparent when things are read
and im sure if anybody has really learnt a lesson here it will be google
as no one can deny there is alot of unhappy and angry x10 users,, with the reasons being very apparent when things are read
northernale1
Android Enthusiast
well it must be more,, because i dont think of a product or company that has brought out so much mass dissatisfaction,, and most of the blame has to be placed on SE handling of the situation,,,
and i still believe google is watching this,,,imho
and i still believe google is watching this,,,imho
CuBz
Android Expert
In my opinion, Google should be able to let any manufacturer do what they want with the OS, then the consumer can decide whether they want to purchase it or not. If someone buys the phone knowing what the OS is like, then they're obviously happy with what they get. But too many people assume, then blame SE, or even Google for that matter, when in fact it is only themselves who are to blame.
northernale1
Android Enthusiast
well i find it hard to believe that so many people feel mislead and somehow come to the conclusion more was to be incorporated then what is what is present now,, and even what the future holds... how could so many come to this conclusion on there own,,,
powerkiter
Android Expert
The thing with that cubz is that 99% of the people who get phones go with what they are told in the shops, you can look for reviews but most will be glowing reports from biased folk who will give a glowing review to ensure they keep manufactures in good steed.
Read through most of the independant tech blog sites for reviews and most will be biased as if it is too damning then said company may not allow their products to be reviewed by them again. I know this happens with every product and commercialism (I kite and there is a kite maker who's kites are well known to fall apart in flight, yet they get great reviews in the mags and people who are trying to get their kites warranted are being warned that if they post about it on kite forums they will NOT get any help!)
So the general public are not all that clued up when it comes to the minor details and lets be honest 90% of complaints are nothing to do with what ver we are running but the bugs that are there.
I dont think I'm stupid in anyway but I feel deceived by SE but I got the phone expecting 2.1 in late Q4 but after seeing what SE did to the 1.6 OS I dont see why they did not just jump to 2.2?
I have been saying on here since I got the phone that there is very little between SE 1.6 and stock 2.1 so I'm not even bothered about the update and doubt very much that I will go to 2.1 and will just stick with my rooted 1.6 that does everything I need from 2.1 and 2.2 apart from Flash Player as it would be nice to watch the gadget show in the morning.
The mobile phone has replaced the news paper for morning toilet reading and although I can watch BBC I would like other media too.
Read through most of the independant tech blog sites for reviews and most will be biased as if it is too damning then said company may not allow their products to be reviewed by them again. I know this happens with every product and commercialism (I kite and there is a kite maker who's kites are well known to fall apart in flight, yet they get great reviews in the mags and people who are trying to get their kites warranted are being warned that if they post about it on kite forums they will NOT get any help!)
So the general public are not all that clued up when it comes to the minor details and lets be honest 90% of complaints are nothing to do with what ver we are running but the bugs that are there.
I dont think I'm stupid in anyway but I feel deceived by SE but I got the phone expecting 2.1 in late Q4 but after seeing what SE did to the 1.6 OS I dont see why they did not just jump to 2.2?
I have been saying on here since I got the phone that there is very little between SE 1.6 and stock 2.1 so I'm not even bothered about the update and doubt very much that I will go to 2.1 and will just stick with my rooted 1.6 that does everything I need from 2.1 and 2.2 apart from Flash Player as it would be nice to watch the gadget show in the morning.
The mobile phone has replaced the news paper for morning toilet reading and although I can watch BBC I would like other media too.