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Root DroidMod-The Negative Effects
- Thread starter dmobile5
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- motorola droid
johnlgalt
Antidisestablishmentarian
Huh? See this is where people differ. I am not a linux guy so I don't even know what the hell you are talking about here!I am a windows guy so I know that OS but if I wanted to get into the "Ubuntu" world, I would HAVE to start by figuring out some history on that OS. A quick "all-in-one" installer would leave me without enough knowledge to know what to do if I had problems. Some people don't want to know...but they want the benefits and that's all good...just could put them in a bad place in the future.
Well, the issue I have is that all OSs were commandline - and I loved the CL. Along came a GUI,and all of a sudden the world went to pot. Every time a developer / company has tried to make the OS easier for us to use, it has come with its own share of problems. M$ is more so to blame for their share of hassles (releasing the NT kernel into the public sector without forcing the use of luser accounts was probably their biggest mistake in their entire history.
Plug and play (Pray?), Visual Basic/C/Java/{insert programming language}, USB hot swappable / bootable UFDs....every one of these ideas is great on paper - let's make our lives easier - until someone figures out "Hey, yanno what? I can do all sorts of nasty things with this b/c n one pays it any attention...."
I personally hate commandline interfaces. I have tinkered with programming since my commie vic 20 with basic. Doesn't mean I have to like it. I think the problem is (and is human nature) that most people say "oh, cool...I want that". So they do a quick google search and BAM...Droidmod...
There are a smaller percentage that really care what is going on in the back ground. I learned how to root by doing a TON of research before I did it. I did it the old school way because I wanted to make sure how to get my phone back if I "bricked" it (loose term these days eh?)...At that, 2 members here helped me for 2 hours (and I still wasn't finished) in the chat. But I'm glad I went though the process...
Now I do use a few shortcuts. I use an update.zip to obtain root I use roothelper to install busybox, etc. But the fact that I know how to use command line to do things in case of disaster just makes me feel more comfortable. I don't think it has anything to do with being "holier than thou"...The people posting here are just saying it wouldn't hurt to learn how to get back your phone with stripped down basics so if something happens like (umm..I dunno...Sholes team has disputes and closes?)...Just saying...lol
There are a smaller percentage that really care what is going on in the back ground. I learned how to root by doing a TON of research before I did it. I did it the old school way because I wanted to make sure how to get my phone back if I "bricked" it (loose term these days eh?)...At that, 2 members here helped me for 2 hours (and I still wasn't finished) in the chat. But I'm glad I went though the process...
Now I do use a few shortcuts. I use an update.zip to obtain root I use roothelper to install busybox, etc. But the fact that I know how to use command line to do things in case of disaster just makes me feel more comfortable. I don't think it has anything to do with being "holier than thou"...The people posting here are just saying it wouldn't hurt to learn how to get back your phone with stripped down basics so if something happens like (umm..I dunno...Sholes team has disputes and closes?)...Just saying...lol
shrink57
Android Expert
The problem with DM Updater is it is a wonderful tool when everything is going right (it is kind of nice to be able to flash a ROM while I am stuck in traffic). Unfortunately, in the real world, everything doesn't always go right (at some point, Murphy's law will prevail). Those that have not delved deeper wind up freaking (remember the panicked posts when Sholes went down). Kind of like autopilot on an airplane. I love using it but know how to take the controls when I need to. Windows is a wonderful interface, but luckily I am comfortable at the DOS prompt when I have to (as stated in the previous posts, it amazes me how many so call experts have now concept of command line usage). DM Updater does ease the way to many uses, but it is their responsibility to take the next steps in understanding the process. It allows them to put the cart before the horse, and yes, some of the post are irritating, but we all learn and experience differently. We can chose to jump in and help or just ignore and move on.
trekgraham
Member
Ok this sounds like the ubuntu vs gentoo or ubuntu vs slackware. Some prefer to do a lot of work manually and feel the pride from it, then some are too busy to put in extra work and would rather skip the manual work and get onto the end product which is a better running device.
Sitting Duck
Member
I came to the Droid after flashing WinMo ROMS for a few years. Rooting in Android the "hard" way is substantially more involved than flashing a WinMo ROM in my opinion. I had been reading up on the manual root process then came across the Sholes/DroidMod app which made the process very similar to the spl unlock process in WinMo. I for one appreciate the easy way since my Droid is just one of many geek things I waste time on. As with WinMo, before I rooted with SholesMod, I made sure I knew how to get it back to stock with no root before I started, other than my failsafe method of driving over it with my car and filing an insurance claim. I've been fiddling with computers since DOS 5.0 - back in the day when juggling your autoexec.bat and config.sys files was necessary to get everything to load properly in memory. Win 3.1, Windows 95, 2000, NT, XP, Vista, WinMo in all its variations. After 20 years or so the old noggin begins to fill up. I'll take the easy way everytime. I'm sure I'll be off on something else in a few months anyway.
snake_fist_gung_fu
Android Enthusiast
I started with SMupdater because I was intimidated by the rooting process..but once there I experimented around and learned what I "should" know fairly quickly. So for me, the all-in-one updater was a jump start
This is a very good point. It has opened the door for alot of people and will make using the Droid that much more fun.
All I heard before this post was how people were people complaining cause they had to help. Here is a fact for yall of you. Even when the SM and DM updaters were not on the market they were people asking about things after Root. I used SMupdater and never made a post about that cause I was smart enough to use SEARCH. Its as simple as telling people to use the Search button. I mean is that really all that hard?
Needsdecaf
Android Expert
UBRocked
VZW Nexus Please!!!
This is a very good point. It has opened the door for alot of people and will make using the Droid that much more fun.
All I heard before this post was how people were people complaining cause they had to help. Here is a fact for yall of you. Even when the SM and DM updaters were not on the market they were people asking about things after Root. I used SMupdater and never made a post about that cause I was smart enough to use SEARCH. Its as simple as telling people to use the Search button. I mean is that really all that hard?
See, I haven't seen any of that (people complaining). I for one spent all morning scouring through these post to see if there was anything I could help with. I know that I am not the only one as there are people on here that ONLY seem to help other people...they don't even have time to screw with their phones cause they are too busy typing answers to questions. Many of them used updaters like droidmod and now don't know the first thing about what they have done...And these people are helped over and over and over again...and from what I can see, all without any attitude directed to them.
The ONLY time i see people complain about some sort of "higher than thou" attitude is in posts like this. The moderators don't want people just tossing out the "use the search feature" cause it comes off like you are being an asshole when you do. When I have seen people send others to the search feature, it is not to answer a specific question, it is to direct them towards a lot of information that can't be quickly answered...and there is already several topics that have detailed that information. They even hold their hand and tell them what their looking for or link the topic to the reply for them. So I don't see the "I'm superior" attitude...I just don't.
My point is that if you feel strongly about updaters being a good thing...put the "Doctor is in" sign up and help answering all the questions like "what do I do now". If people used the updater cause they didn't want to learn...they just wanted it all now...they can come here with the same help me now kind of attitude and some still don't want to learn...but realistically, that is not a long term option.
johnlgalt
Antidisestablishmentarian
nderstandable - I am so used to CL interfaces that I sometimes prefer them to GUIs - sometimes there are things you can do in CL that you simply cannot do easily in GUIs.
But, for the most part, I do use GUIs as they are very pervasive in my every day life.
It's like the mouse versus KB - I prefer KB shortcuts for many things I do, but a lot of people prefer to use the mouse for most of their tasks - they both perform the same function, so it is largely a matter of personal preference.
Yup - that is why collecting all the info into a single area, and being able to direct new users to said info is a good thing.
However, not all want to put the time in reading and researching, an therein lies the problem.
Whenever someone asks me about rooting, I never says it is easy as pie, that it is foolproof, in fact, I never imply that the process is going to be an easy one at all. I specifically say that you need to research why you want to root, or why you want an alternate ROM, an the possible scenarios behind a failure. However, some people just don't listen, and take the plunge, whereas others do listen and actually go read and find info.
My point is that with all these posts about Rooting is easy peasy and How to root your phone in 3 easy steps and such you make it seem like you snap your fingers, and presto, it's magic, it's rooted. Nowhere are any of the possible complications, erroneous outcomes, etc. ever mentioned (except in disclaimer statements, which are almost categorically ignored by users until they have problems).
Instead of advertising how easy it is to root, we should be advertising the pros and cons of rooting, including real life stories of folks that have bricked their phones, including a step by step recovery process to attempt to revive a phone with a bad ROM install, to point them to resources with easy literature and step by step process to troubleshoot their own phones.
Up until now, the focus has been mostly on "This is how you root."
In a sense - but the CommandLine is not the real focus here - it is knowing the background info. For example, regardles sof whether you run Gentoo, Mint, Ubuntu, Slackware, Arch, FC, whatever - as a *nix user, you should know not to run applications as root / su. You only use root / su to install said apps, unless it is a specifically needed app that needs root privileges to do something (like editing / configuring firewalls).
However, thre ae plenty of *nix users who come in, read 3 lines, install *nix, then go to install apps, learn how to su - then su to run said apps as well.
That is exactly the point we're making - too many users are not taking the time to learn the background info, and are thus getting themselves into hairy situations that they should not be in i the first place.
It's pandemic, and we need to start addressing it very very soon before there is a major flood that we are unable to handle.
This is a very good point. It has opened the door for alot of people and will make using the Droid that much more fun.
All I heard before this post was how people were people complaining cause they had to help. Here is a fact for yall of you. Even when the SM and DM updaters were not on the market they were people asking about things after Root. I used SMupdater and never made a post about that cause I was smart enough to use SEARCH. Its as simple as telling people to use the Search button. I mean is that really all that hard?
You heard what you wanted to hear. No offense, but no one was complaining - we were stating facts and trying to fuigure out the best possible way to deal with said facts.
not everyone will real - not everyone will take the time to learn the basics - not everyone has the time to do so. There are always gonna be users who need quick help b/c they attempted something out of their purview and now need it fixed.
The OP was offering suggestions on how to help with that.
last night, Crish asked me to help her get a ROM on her phone - we walked through the entire process 3 times before I finally guessed that she was doing everything perfectly right and so it must be the ROM that she downloaded - sure enough, I sent her mine via Messenger, and the first time she tried it it took.
Now, if she had come to the forums and asked about installation aborted errors, she would have gotten a whole slew of things to try (most of which *I* had her try...) - but the fact of the matter remains that she did not know what else to try when ht progress bar just sat there doing nothing at all. And, at first, I was also reluctant to have her reboot the phone in case it really *was* in the middle of installing and had, for some reason or another, locked up, b/c I didn't want her to have a phone that was not bootable.
If you were a n00b and barely knew anything about installing ROMs and rooting, and such, and ran into that error, and got frustrated, and did a battery pull, and *poof* your phone is bricked, how would you feel? More importantly, would you be in full panic mode or not, and would you be posting at every single Android forum you could find trying to fix your new $200 paperweight or not?
You can think that we are complaining and bitching and moaning all you like - in reality, this thread is about developing good solutions to be able to easily help out other folks who are new to the process and either cannot or will not take the time to learn what the devs know and what has filtered down to us.
So, please stop accusing us of BS - 'cause it ain't right.
TY! Exactly what this whole thread is about!
Dear Android Community,
I never post, rarely text, and the Droid was an impulse buy. Using Ubuntu Linux exclusively on my computers with one VirtualBox singularity, all I needed to hear was that Droid had a Linux kernel ... I was sold on the spot.
My first surprise came when I realized that I did not have root access. Who's heard of such a thing: buying a computer and not being able to administer it? Anyway, rooting is therefore a necessity by definition.
So, I found an opening in my schedule and went hunting for information. Thanks to the folks who find the not so obvious exploits and offer their specialized skills to the community. Here are the most significant finds:
Obtaining Root | Root Your Droid
Easy Step by Step guide to installing: Bugless Beast - BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com
http://www.alldroid.org/viewtopic.php?f=309&t=2614
After quite a few update.zip's and reboots, I was thrilled to OC to 600MHz running bugless beast 1.1 with a sholes kernel. From what I've gathered being in this forum, this is the prescribed procedure people should enjoy their newly found freedom and follow a rigid regimen of rooting, updating their kernels, and flashing roms. Although it is definitely more laborious, the process did not really make me feel any smarter because all I did was follow the foot steps of software gurus who have blazed the trail.
I wasn't done, however! Reports of OC's of up to 1.2 GHz and sholes 2.0.5 and 2.0.6 kept popping up without any download links. Then, I finally got a lead and explanation of a falling out among the sholes group and the establishment of DroidMod. Cool, I thought ... and a much easier path to upgrading ... all integrated into the Market. The way it should be, frankly, if you want to liberate the masses. While DroidMod booted, replacing Droid's cyclops eye, my phone application and a lot of other things were missing. While there weren't any error messages during loading, something had apparently gone wrong. Did I now own a $200 brick?
Not so, I was able to recover back to the earlier sholes kernel and bugless beast 1.1. Droid went immediately back into action without missing a beat. After all this, I am still curious about pushing to the OC limit further up and would love to get back at it. However, I am left a little confused and would love to receive guidance about where to go next.
Hopefully this perspective puts on a different spin on how users arrive at questions and what the community really needs. Why should it be difficult to root a device? And what's wrong with having a simple checkmark (x) rooted vs. () unrooted? I think it's wonderful to simply turn the ignition key of my car and have the engine start just like that. Although I am fully aware that a lot of engineering blood, sweat, and tears have gone into making the starter feature available, I don't really consider myself dumb or lazy when exploiting it on a daily basis.
I say celebrate everyone who takes the step to rooting, treat them with kindness and respect regardless of their skill level, and help them if you can and are active in these newsgroups. The very fact that there are questions means that open source has momentum.
Go Android, Go Ubuntu Linux
I never post, rarely text, and the Droid was an impulse buy. Using Ubuntu Linux exclusively on my computers with one VirtualBox singularity, all I needed to hear was that Droid had a Linux kernel ... I was sold on the spot.
My first surprise came when I realized that I did not have root access. Who's heard of such a thing: buying a computer and not being able to administer it? Anyway, rooting is therefore a necessity by definition.
So, I found an opening in my schedule and went hunting for information. Thanks to the folks who find the not so obvious exploits and offer their specialized skills to the community. Here are the most significant finds:
Obtaining Root | Root Your Droid
Easy Step by Step guide to installing: Bugless Beast - BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com
http://www.alldroid.org/viewtopic.php?f=309&t=2614
After quite a few update.zip's and reboots, I was thrilled to OC to 600MHz running bugless beast 1.1 with a sholes kernel. From what I've gathered being in this forum, this is the prescribed procedure people should enjoy their newly found freedom and follow a rigid regimen of rooting, updating their kernels, and flashing roms. Although it is definitely more laborious, the process did not really make me feel any smarter because all I did was follow the foot steps of software gurus who have blazed the trail.
I wasn't done, however! Reports of OC's of up to 1.2 GHz and sholes 2.0.5 and 2.0.6 kept popping up without any download links. Then, I finally got a lead and explanation of a falling out among the sholes group and the establishment of DroidMod. Cool, I thought ... and a much easier path to upgrading ... all integrated into the Market. The way it should be, frankly, if you want to liberate the masses. While DroidMod booted, replacing Droid's cyclops eye, my phone application and a lot of other things were missing. While there weren't any error messages during loading, something had apparently gone wrong. Did I now own a $200 brick?
Not so, I was able to recover back to the earlier sholes kernel and bugless beast 1.1. Droid went immediately back into action without missing a beat. After all this, I am still curious about pushing to the OC limit further up and would love to get back at it. However, I am left a little confused and would love to receive guidance about where to go next.
Hopefully this perspective puts on a different spin on how users arrive at questions and what the community really needs. Why should it be difficult to root a device? And what's wrong with having a simple checkmark (x) rooted vs. () unrooted? I think it's wonderful to simply turn the ignition key of my car and have the engine start just like that. Although I am fully aware that a lot of engineering blood, sweat, and tears have gone into making the starter feature available, I don't really consider myself dumb or lazy when exploiting it on a daily basis.
I say celebrate everyone who takes the step to rooting, treat them with kindness and respect regardless of their skill level, and help them if you can and are active in these newsgroups. The very fact that there are questions means that open source has momentum.
Go Android, Go Ubuntu Linux
gimmeanathlon
Member
As the World Turns These are the days of our lives.....
UBRocked
VZW Nexus Please!!!
So what kind of guidance do you need? Do you want to keep your current rom and just overclock to a higher level? It just seems like you have a good handle on things as you were able to recover after a bad rom install and that shows a higher level of knowledge than most of the users saying "I rooted my phone using droidmod, now what do I do".
If you are comfortable with Recovery and performing nandroid backups/recoveries, all you really need to do is flash different kernels to see what kernels at what speeds your phone can handle. Some phones can handle Tasmanian Droid's 1.3 GHz kernel...mine can't. My phone works at the newer 1.2GHz speeds but not will lock up if I run some 1.1GHz kernels.
I don't think anyone is saying that taking advantage of a rooted phone is a bad thing. I don't understand why some people don't care to. All I know is that people should be able to recover from loading a bad rom like you had done. I don't understand all the programming that goes into this OS...I'm just not that savvy. I do know what to do when my phone fails to boot and THANK GOD I know enough to think that "maybe this won't boot" before I flashed a rom or a new kernel. That's the level of understanding we (or at least I) would like to see people new to rooting and overclocking get to. It will save them time and a lot of work for them as well. It's basic knowledge...but necessary IMO.
Either way, people will be here to help. I don't want to see this get into an ugly debate cause I don't think anyone wants to have that over something like this. But maybe a few people will read this thread and say "maybe I should read on before rooting my phone with this market app I bought."
Flash the rom and get root access! Do it, cause having "my phone" is 100 times better than a stock droid! Just do YOURSELF a favor...and spend 30 minutes to educate yourself. Just my 2...maybe 3 cents!
arctec34
Lurker
ok. so. here. i was one of the first people to crack a verizon razr phone, and put another carrier's firmware on it and make it WORK... yeah, remember the moto razr?? I programmed/hacked/whatever a whole lot.
I used droidmod on my moto droid, does that mean I'm a idiot who doesn't know what I'm doing?
I used droidmod on my moto droid, does that mean I'm a idiot who doesn't know what I'm doing?
johnlgalt
Antidisestablishmentarian
nope - it means you're picking the easy way of doing something to your phone b/c you choose to.
The problem arises when folks with no experience do the same thing, then make threads like http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-droid/48966-ive-just-successfully-rooted-now-what.html and http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-droid/48911-how-switch-between-roms.html and http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-droid/48948-just-rooted-now-no-gps.html and http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-droid/48758-rooted-no-bluetooth-please-help.html and http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-droid/48697-just-rooted-now-how-do-i-decide-rom-use.html
No offense to the posters of these threads, but we have to have a concise way of dealing with these types of posts before they go overboard and we get swamped.
The problem arises when folks with no experience do the same thing, then make threads like http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-droid/48966-ive-just-successfully-rooted-now-what.html and http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-droid/48911-how-switch-between-roms.html and http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-droid/48948-just-rooted-now-no-gps.html and http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-droid/48758-rooted-no-bluetooth-please-help.html and http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-droid/48697-just-rooted-now-how-do-i-decide-rom-use.html
No offense to the posters of these threads, but we have to have a concise way of dealing with these types of posts before they go overboard and we get swamped.
UBRocked
VZW Nexus Please!!!
I really hope people are reading this thread and not just the first post and jumping to conclusions.
Why would anyone be saying that to you? Just to start a fight on a forum? New users come here everyday and ask for help just like John has indicated. While they are welcome to do so...this thread represents a plead for help from the users that are new to rooting (many of them using droidmod). THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH DOING SO (don't misconstrue this) , but please...please help us by taking a few minutes to educate yourselves. I see the same kinds of thread being unanswered for several hours at a time because their are increasing numbers of the questions listed below
When we ask for help in managing these types of request by educating yourselves...just a little, people start accusing us of bitching or calling them stupid. Why is this hard to understand? We are trying to save everyone time and frustrations...is there something I am missing? I see that multiple people thanked a guy in this thread who started his reply with "stop bitching". I'm confused!
Why would anyone be saying that to you? Just to start a fight on a forum? New users come here everyday and ask for help just like John has indicated. While they are welcome to do so...this thread represents a plead for help from the users that are new to rooting (many of them using droidmod). THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH DOING SO (don't misconstrue this) , but please...please help us by taking a few minutes to educate yourselves. I see the same kinds of thread being unanswered for several hours at a time because their are increasing numbers of the questions listed below
When we ask for help in managing these types of request by educating yourselves...just a little, people start accusing us of bitching or calling them stupid. Why is this hard to understand? We are trying to save everyone time and frustrations...is there something I am missing? I see that multiple people thanked a guy in this thread who started his reply with "stop bitching". I'm confused!
snake_fist_gung_fu
Android Enthusiast
You really dont see people complaining about DroidMod on this thread?
Also I dont agree with you on the "Use the Search button" cause If your nice about it you dont seem like a ass at all. People have told me many of a time to use the search and it has help on every board I have gone too.
I agree you will be surprised at the stuff you miss. Research is never a bad thing.
So see there you really need to Practice what you preach. Cause this whole time all I have been saying is that you need to help people. My first post on this thread was about not complaining about the Uber amount of Noob threads and just help them. Then the second one was to direct them to the Search so they could find the Threads they needed. So if you are doing what you said then Im not calling you on anything. Your taking what I say out of context and taking it personal. So No Offense but lighten up and dont get so mad that you miss the whole point.
trekgraham
Member
I agree, and running things as root when not required unless it needs access to all resources like apache is not smart. I tend to goto one bookmark on my browser on my phone. The search new posts for this forum from there I see what's new and research from there. DroidMod opened rooting easy for me and with research I've learned more from there.
UBRocked
VZW Nexus Please!!!
Hey, Droidmod is fine with me...nice quick and easy...but it's not a weather app you're installing. How many times have you answered questions from people saying "I used Droidmod now what" or something like that? The problem isn't the app itself. I don't like all the command line stuff either but it's the fallout from the super duper easy updater that is of concern. People are rooting that wouldn't normally and that's fine...actually, that's great! If the updater came with a tutorial on recovery, flashing roms, and going over some common problems people encounter...that would help!
Do you realize that if you don't put a newly downloaded rom in Nandroid format in the right folder...it won't show up? A zip file in the nandroid folder on the sd card will show up in recovery but gives you an error message? These are the types of things you learn when you have a better understanding of what you're doing cause the updater does it all for you. That would be fine but people get tired of the droidmod 1.0 rom and try to load a different one...troubles begin and there is usually no base knowledge to fall back on...so the question gets asked here because some (a lot) of people don't use the search function in the first place.
As for the search option...it's not really an agree or disagree situation. The mods on this forum have put out guidelines about throwing people into search when they ask a question that has been answered previously...so people are conscious of that. If we know the answer, we should answer the question...not pawn them off of the search function and I think this forum is pretty good about that.