Eris worth the trouble???

[styleguy]

Menu
Settings
Accounts and Sync

uncheck the Background Data box

Thanks, I did that. I still haven't activated the phone, unsure at the moment.

My concern is leaving facebook on, while on my home wifi, stepping outside the house, but say I forgot to log out of facebook...then I'm using verizon's data, and all of a sudden I've used 20mb just being logged into facebook, but outside my Wifi. I also don't know if when I get in a Wifi area, if it automatically switches to Wifi. I've heard it does, then I've also heard it does not, and sometimes will keep you on verizon's data, therefore eating away at the 150mb limit. Even turning off "background data", and "mobile networks" in the settings. I'm not sure what that even means.

So, I'm starting to think it might just be too much to deal with. Just another thing to worry about.

 

[royalewihcheese]

I'd root it, put the latest version of Froshedyo on it, and monitor your data usage with the myVerizon data widget. It's not hard at all to keep it under 150MB per month . . . just don't use 150MB worth of data, in less than a month, and you're golden

More seriously, though, there are ways to set alerts and automatic toggling of data if you use, say, 20MB at once, or 90% of your total is reached. Something like that. Just keep an eye on it, and disregard the naysayers . . . the Eris is a fine phone.

 

[styleguy]

I don't know how to root it. I don't understand that stuff.

What do you mean by "20mb at once"? I've turned the background data and mobile data off.

I just don't want to waste data when I'm off Wifi. Is there a way to set this up?

I don't want to be logged into facebook, leave Wifi, all of a sudden, I'm wasting data because I'm on 3g and facebook is still logged in. Then I'm worried about having to turn it off all the time.

 

[micallen]

I use Page Plus - the 1200 Talk N Text plan. I get 50 MB of data a month. I've had my Eris 1 month, and used about 42 MB. And that is mostly in the first few weeks. The longer I've had it, the more I've learned about it and saving data. I won't have any trouble staying under the 50 MB limit.

 

[cmajpwc]

I don't know how to root it. I don't understand that stuff.

What do you mean by "20mb at once"? I've turned the background data and mobile data off.

I just don't want to waste data when I'm off Wifi. Is there a way to set this up?

I don't want to be logged into facebook, leave Wifi, all of a sudden, I'm wasting data because I'm on 3g and facebook is still logged in. Then I'm worried about having to turn it off all the time.

Turning off mobile data should work, as in not using Verizon's data rather than your WiFi. And when he says using 20 mb at once, I think he means if you use so much data in a given time, you can set an alert to let you know or shut it off or something. And you can always use a task killer just to be safe. Always hit the back button to completely exit out of applications and use a task killer even to check to see what apps are running on your phone.

 

[micallen]

Get an app called 3G Watchdog. You can set limits, etc. Works like a charm.

 

[doogald]

Thanks, I did that. I still haven't activated the phone, unsure at the moment.

My concern is leaving facebook on, while on my home wifi, stepping outside the house, but say I forgot to log out of facebook...then I'm using verizon's data, and all of a sudden I've used 20mb just being logged into facebook, but outside my Wifi. I also don't know if when I get in a Wifi area, if it automatically switches to Wifi. I've heard it does, then I've also heard it does not, and sometimes will keep you on verizon's data, therefore eating away at the 150mb limit. Even turning off "background data", and "mobile networks" in the settings. I'm not sure what that even means.

I've already given you my usage totals, and I have twitter and facebook updates set to half hour, with data on. If you disable mobile data, it simply will not switch to Verizon's 3G when you leave WiFi coverage - you have turned off mobile data. Again, that's exactly what turning off mobile networks means - do NOT use Verizon's 3G network for data connections.

It should also be noted that if you do go over the 150 MB, Verizon will charge you $15 for an additional 150 MB. Go over that- you get another 150 MB for $15. Occasional overages will not break the bank. If you find that you are going over every month, you can always upgrade the data plan to unlimited $30.

So, I'm starting to think it might just be too much to deal with. Just another thing to worry about.

That's obviously something that only you can decide. Will they allow you to activate a phone without a contract - i.e., month to month, so you can drop the service without a termination fee?

 

[royalewihcheese]

I don't know how to root it. I don't understand that stuff.

What do you mean by "20mb at once"? I've turned the background data and mobile data off.

I just don't want to waste data when I'm off Wifi. Is there a way to set this up?

I don't want to be logged into facebook, leave Wifi, all of a sudden, I'm wasting data because I'm on 3g and facebook is still logged in. Then I'm worried about having to turn it off all the time.

There's a subforum right above this one, called "Eris - All Things Root". Start reading.

All the Cyanogen-based ROMs have a couple of great power settings that will help you even before apps, like "Turning on Wifi disables Data". These are accessible most easily when you put a Power Control widget on a homescreen. If you wanted to make sure your Wifi use didn't bleed over into data use, you could set it to turn off data when you switch on Wifi, and set it to not automatically reenable data once Wifi is off. Once that's set, you'd have to toggle Data back on via the widget each time you leave Wifi before anything could send/receive again.

You're really making this way harder than it has to be, though. 150MB is an absolute asston of data if you're not downloading podcasts and letting widgets run wild. Put a little thought into it, and you won't use half of it in a month.

 

[erisuser1]

150MB is an absolute asston of data if you're not downloading podcasts and letting widgets run wild.

My billing cycle ends in two days - I'm on an unlimited plan - never use social media apps, but do a lot of browsing. 635 MB of mobile data so far.

But I probably did things like download ROMs and such at 80-100 Meg at a pop during that time; it's easy to download lots of stuff if you don't have a need to pay attention.

The "My Verizon Mobile" app allows you to see your usage if you want to keep tabs on it. It does not update instantaneously, probably only once a day or so, but that's plenty good for keeping track of things.

Having said that, turning off "mobile data networks" does exactly what it says - it turns it off. No ifs, ands, or buts. And that setting is non-volatile, so if you power off the phone and turn it back on, you still will not be using 3G services. It really is just that simple.

 

[Chris2183]

Thanks, I did that. I still haven't activated the phone, unsure at the moment.

My concern is leaving facebook on, while on my home wifi, stepping outside the house, but say I forgot to log out of facebook...then I'm using verizon's data, and all of a sudden I've used 20mb just being logged into facebook, but outside my Wifi. I also don't know if when I get in a Wifi area, if it automatically switches to Wifi. I've heard it does, then I've also heard it does not, and sometimes will keep you on verizon's data, therefore eating away at the 150mb limit. Even turning off "background data", and "mobile networks" in the settings. I'm not sure what that even means.

So, I'm starting to think it might just be too much to deal with. Just another thing to worry about.

Easily rectified by using the mobile network widget and keeping it turned off till you need to use the mobile network, or just turning mobile network off in the settings. Once out of range of wifi it cannot connect to the network and wont hit you for data.


If you do not want to pay for unlimited data then you need to do some extra work to monitor and control your usage. Its the trade off for saving money.

 

[Sophie_1983]

Doesn't anyone here read anymore?
Stop being salesman / cheerleaders.
The Op clearly said
"I really only need to talk,text - I just want a current style phone."
Why does everyone have to "read into" things or re-invent the wheel?

Dear OP. here is the answer you want
Yes 150 MB is more then enough if as you say, you only will be using the ERIS for Talk and Text!
Just turn off the data connection - It is that simple! and HTC Sense makes this simple with a widget / Home page shortcut
You Do not need the data connection on to Talk and or Text, therefore you will never even come close to the 150mb allowed.

However, if you actually do begin to use the phone as we all know you will, and therefore enable the Data connection, then you may or may not go over your limit. this will depend entirely on what you do with the phone. You will need to be really disciplined and frugal in how you use the phone and always disabling the data connection when not in use. Or just stay on WiFi, but even then once you get used to being always connected it is difficult to go back.

As far as your concerns on the Eris's overall performance go, On a 1 to 10 scales its avgs a 5 = Sometimes it's an 8, Sometimes it's a 3 there is no getting around this with the Eris.

Depending on what you are doing the phone will either run fine or lag to a stop and Rooting will NOT improve performance contrary to what people claim.

The Eris's weak point is the Androip Op system. In trying to be the "Be all to End All", it accomplishes the exact opposite, especially on a phone like the Eris with limited memory and a Generation 1 Processor.

Sure you can Multi Task with Android, but in doing so, your phone will slow to a crawl. Androids touted Multi Tasking and The Op systems ability to monitor and control memory as needed is Just Madison Avenue Marketing. When the phone all but stops, then and only then will Android Kill a process, only to bring you back to the point just before the crash.

With the Android / Eris combo, you will soon get used to Killing Services, Processes and Tasks to keep the phone Humming along. However in doing so, you lower even further, the phones already poor battery performance.
Of course if all you do is Text and Phone and keep the Data usage Disabled, this issue wont be quite as bad. But Android has this thing about starting apps you never use or Don't need, just so they can be ready to go when and if you ever need them! And every app you will ever download follows the same philosophy. Just open up email on an Android and watch the Apps / Processes jump to life and in doing so, they all but crash the phone!

Over-clocking, Rooting and Killing apps do absolutely nothing in fixing the phones / Op systems known short comings. In the Future as they Continually Improve and modify the Phone and Op system. Things may be different, But as long as you buy the Cheapest / Entry level version you will always have performance issues.

With all that said - there is nothing wrong with the ERIS, as long as you know and understand it's limitations

 

[Sophie_1983]

Thanks, I did that. I still haven't activated the phone, unsure at the moment.

My concern is leaving facebook on, while on my home wifi, stepping outside the house, but say I forgot to log out of facebook...then I'm using verizon's data, and all of a sudden I've used 20mb just being logged into facebook, but outside my Wifi. I also don't know if when I get in a Wifi area, if it automatically switches to Wifi. I've heard it does, then I've also heard it does not, and sometimes will keep you on verizon's data, therefore eating away at the 150mb limit. Even turning off "background data", and "mobile networks" in the settings. I'm not sure what that even means.

So, I'm starting to think it might just be too much to deal with. Just another thing to worry about.

So much for "I really only need to talk,text - I just want a current style phone."

 

[doogald]

Depending on what you are doing the phone will either run fine or lag to a stop and Rooting will NOT improve performance contrary to what people claim.

As a matter of fact, yes, it will, particularly if you install a Froyo ROM. Even if you root and install a ROM that looks and works like stock Eris, xtrSENSE for example, you will find a ROM that is running at 710 MHz when you are using it, as opposed to 528 MHz stock - so, yes, performance will increase. It will not turn your phone into one as fast as an Incredible, or a Droid, but it will be faster. Phone function lag will decrease significantly. Using xtrSENSE and its cache2cache feature, room to install applications will grow.

Sure you can Multi Task with Android, but in doing so, your phone will slow to a crawl. Androids touted Multi Tasking and The Op systems ability to monitor and control memory as needed is Just Madison Avenue Marketing. When the phone all but stops, then and only then will Android Kill a process, only to bring you back to the point just before the crash.

Again, this is something that you can control (if you root the phone) by using an app called Autokiller, which is not an automatic task manager but instead changes Android's internal memory management, which has the effect of reducing the number of background apps actively running.

But even without running Autokiller, your explanation is simplistic and not quite correct. Android does not wait for the phone to "all but stop" before killing apps.

But Android has this thing about starting apps you never use or Don't need, just so they can be ready to go when and if you ever need them! And every app you will ever download follows the same philosophy.

This is also incorrect. Not even close to every app automatically starts without you actually starting it.

Yes, there are apps that automatically start which you cannot stop, or even uninstall. Unless, of course, you root the phone. Then you can uninstall Footprints, Peep, Amazon MP3 Store, etc. (Or load a ROM that doesn't have them installed by default.)

Of course, one thing about Android is that just because an app is in deep background, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is using any CPU cycles. A really good article about Android's multi-tasking and memory management is here: Android Developers Blog: Multitasking the Android Way

From that article:

The fact that you can see an application's process "running" does not mean the application is running or doing anything. It may simply be there because Android needed it at some point, and has decided that it would be best to keep it around in case it needs it again. Likewise, you may leave an application for a little bit and return to it from where you left off, and during that time Android may have needed to get rid of the process for other things.

Over-clocking, Rooting and Killing apps do absolutely nothing in fixing the phones / Op systems known short comings. In the Future as they Continually Improve and modify the Phone and Op system. Things may be different, But as long as you buy the Cheapest / Entry level version you will always have performance issues.

Overclocking and rooting does, in fact, help obviate the Eris's built-in shortcomings. I do agree that it is a first generation handset in a world of second and third generation Android handsets, no matter what you do you will not have an Incredible or a Fascinate, but rooting does help.

 

[Sophie_1983]

As a matter of fact, yes, it will, particularly if you install a Froyo ROM. Even if you root and install a ROM that looks and works like stock Eris, xtrSENSE for example, you will find a ROM that is running at 710 MHz when you are using it, as opposed to 528 MHz stock - so, yes, performance will increase. It will not turn your phone into one as fast as an Incredible, or a Droid, but it will be faster. Phone function lag will decrease significantly. Using xtrSENSE and its cache2cache feature, room to install applications will grow.

I have tried every Rom available and None of them Improve performance anywhere past the "millisecond" range. Which in the real world, is all but Useless. Of course, please feel free to provide video demonstrations "Proof" of your Increased performance anytime you think you can


Again, this is something that you can control (if you root the phone) by using an app called Autokiller, which is not an automatic task manager but instead changes Android's internal memory management, which has the effect of reducing the number of background apps actively running.

But even without running Autokiller, your explanation is simplistic and not quite correct. Android does not wait for the phone to "all but stop" before killing apps.


On the Contrary, it is your explanation that is simplistic! Drink the Kool-aide much do you?
Autokiller is yesterdays news and garbage. It never lived up to it's hype and in the end it is just another running program that further slows down a Slow phone.
A much better alternative is Autostarts. But for it to be even remotely effective, You basically have to disable everything, then go back and figure out which ones have cause major programs to not function properly and re-enable them. With that said Android / Eris's Memory leaks Management shortcomings are well known and documented


This is also incorrect. Not even close to every app automatically starts without you actually starting it.
Yes, there are apps that automatically start which you cannot stop, or even uninstall. Unless, of course, you root the phone. Then you can uninstall Footprints, Peep, Amazon MP3 Store, etc. (Or load a ROM that doesn't have them installed by default.)

First off, the term Every App was an obvious exaggeration. The point was that almost every app people actually use, display the same crap coding.
There is no reason for any app to start unless you specifically want it to.
Opening email on any Froyo rom, should not start youtube, media, market, GReader, Pandora, news & weather, calender, Clock, setcpu, etc....
You should pay attention to your device to see what killed apps / proocesses and service restart on their own or when opening another app, before you comment about something you don't know about.

Of course, one thing about Android is that just because an app is in deep background, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is using any CPU cycles. A really good article about Android's multi-tasking and memory management is here: Android Developers Blog: Multitasking the Android Way

To silly to even reply to except with the Kool-aide Response again


Overclocking and rooting does, in fact, help obviate the Eris's built-in shortcomings. I do agree that it is a first generation handset in a world of second and third generation Android handsets, no matter what you do you will not have an Incredible or a Fascinate, but rooting does help.[/QUOTE]

We will agree to disagree!
You are correct on one point. Overclocking has changed the way my Froyo Rom performs. It didn't change the speed in anyway noticeable to the Human eye or measurable except with a useless bench mark test, but it did however make the Horrible battery Life even more Horrible!
Rooting too has changed the phone. It allowed me to....
A. Get Froyo
B. Use programs like Autostarts
C. has helped me set the phone the way I want it
But it, in my opinion, has done NOTHING in changing a Slow processor or an Overly Complex Op System and its Lousy memory management

 

[doogald]

Autokiller is yesterdays news and garbage. It never lived up to it's hype and in the end it is just another running program that further slows down a Slow phone.

Autokiller does not run in the background. It merely changes Android's internal settings. I suppose that there is an automatic task management component but I do not use that myself.

Opening email on any Froyo rom, should not start youtube, media, market, GReader, Pandora, news & weather, calender, Clock, setcpu, etc....

Greader was running before you opened email - but, it is an app with multiple threads, and it is the thread that acts as a service that automatically starts in the background to sync your content with Google Reader. The whole app does not run in the background. And, of course, you chose to install it. It is very easy to uninstall.

News & weather only runs if you have it set as a widget on a homescreen. It does not start when you start the email app.

I'm not sure about Pandora - I have never used it. Again, you chose to install it on your phone.

Clock is not running on my phone at the moment. I assume that you have a clock widget on your homescreen, or perhaps an alarm set?

SetCPU also has absolutely nothing to do with the email app. It runs at boot because you installed it and asked it to do so. IIRC, there is actually a setting in SetCPU that you set to have it run on boot. No currently maintained ROM for the Eris actually installs SetCPU - you install it yourself, and it is actually unnecessary if you want to overclock your phone. It's only necessary if you want to fine-tune the parameters of overclocking, and can save battery life a bit if you step down the clock speed as battery life drains.

You should pay attention to your device to see what killed apps / proocesses and service restart on their own or when opening another app, before you comment about something you don't know about.

I assume that you closed them with some automatic task manager. Perhaps this is why you have battery and performance problems. Automatic Task Managers when closing apps that are designed to stay open just shut them down temporarily. It is not opening email that is causing these apps to reopen.

Perhaps, instead, you should watch which programs are running in the background after these are closed by an ATM and see how many reopen before you open your email app, if you are, in fact using some sort of automatic task killer/manager.

 

[Kelmar]

Just stopping in real quick to remind everyone of the following:

Going forward, if you choose to be rude to people, don't be surprised if you are banned next time you go to log in. We have tried to let the community police themselves for the most part, but it appears that there is some cleaning up to do.

To those of you who are active and helpful parts of the community, and those that are just looking for help, we apologize for even allowing it to get to this point. Trust me when I tell you that we are going to do everything possible to bring Android Forums back to the light-hearted and fun place we've all grown to love. But we do need your help as well. Please continue to report threads or users that you feel aren't being helpful. Or anyone being malicious or rude.

I have very little tolerance for uncalled for disrespect. With that said.. read on. Please treat other members with respect. These forums were put together for Android fans to come together and help each other, collaborate and discuss in a positive way – not bash on someone because you don't like their idea, or because they don't share the same views as you. We are big into the free speech idea here. So you're free to say what you think – but do it in a constructive, positive, 'add to the conversation' kinda way – not the condescending 'I don't like what you're saying so you suck and also, are a bitch' kinda way. We encourage mature debates – discourage childish arguments.

Please stay ON topic and avoid the unnecessary mud-slinging at one another. If you aren't going to help another user or contribute to the conversation... close the thread and move along.


.... now back to your scheduled thread...!

 

[Demache]

I'm probably going to sit this one out. I've tried arguing in conversations like these, but, more than likely all that will happen is a circular argument that goes nowhere.

Btw, don't use task killers. They are nothing but trouble and lead to "Android illiterate people who think they know things" syndrome and then people argue indefinitely.

 

[Sophie_1983]

Autokiller does not run in the background. It merely changes Android's internal settings. I suppose that there is an automatic task management component but I do not use that myself.



Greader was running before you opened email - but, it is an app with multiple threads, and it is the thread that acts as a service that automatically starts in the background to sync your content with Google Reader. The whole app does not run in the background. And, of course, you chose to install it. It is very easy to uninstall.

News & weather only runs if you have it set as a widget on a homescreen. It does not start when you start the email app.

I'm not sure about Pandora - I have never used it. Again, you chose to install it on your phone.

Clock is not running on my phone at the moment. I assume that you have a clock widget on your homescreen, or perhaps an alarm set?

SetCPU also has absolutely nothing to do with the email app. It runs at boot because you installed it and asked it to do so. IIRC, there is actually a setting in SetCPU that you set to have it run on boot. No currently maintained ROM for the Eris actually installs SetCPU - you install it yourself, and it is actually unnecessary if you want to overclock your phone. It's only necessary if you want to fine-tune the parameters of overclocking, and can save battery life a bit if you step down the clock speed as battery life drains.



I assume that you closed them with some automatic task manager. Perhaps this is why you have battery and performance problems. Automatic Task Managers when closing apps that are designed to stay open just shut them down temporarily. It is not opening email that is causing these apps to reopen.

Perhaps, instead, you should watch which programs are running in the background after these are closed by an ATM and see how many reopen before you open your email app, if you are, in fact using some sort of automatic task killer/manager.

Wrong , Wrong , Wrong
Everything on my phone was forced closed - Nothing is running in the Background, No widgets. Try it yourself!

I have done this test numerous times. I can kill everything, Change all internal settings so nothing is set to auto update, turn off Background Data etc.. And every time I do it, I get the Same results.

To be clear once all processes, Apps, and services are killed - NONE will restart on their own, no matter how long the phone sits idles. Open email and they all start, Get a phone call, messaging and others start.
This happens on dozens of programs and over a period of a day or two eventually there is no way to recover lost memory , but to reboot.

The list of apps that start other apps is endless and is the main problem with Androids Over Touted "Multi-tasking" claims.

 

[BoBiGi]

Sophie, so sorry you are having trouble with your Eris.
I have had mine since 11/09 and do not have those issues. Mine is a happy little "Multi-tasker". It runs my entire business: emailing, texting, calls (in and out), scheduling and it keeps my books. It is a busy little guy and has not failed me, not even once. Everyone in my family has an Eris as well, and have not experienced OS issues.
Sincerely hope you can resolve your phone problems, with the new handsets in the pipeline, hopefully, there will be one that works for you.

 

[styleguy]

Personally, I'd prefer not to "root" the phone. Just sounds real nerdy.

I still haven't decided what to do with it. Doesn't seem worth the trouble and it's probably best to resell it before the Iphone comes out on verizon, and the market will be even further flooded with Android phones of all shapes and size.

 

[darkside]

Personally as a former eris owner (traded vzw for a droid 1) I would steer away from the eris. The eris was my first smart phone and was good for getting my feet wet in the android world, but quickly the phone began havint so much lag that at times it was unusable, especially when it takes sometimes several minutes to dial a call, I had it rooted and overclocked with little spurts of improvement bu not enough to keep me from calling and getting a different phone replacement.

As far as the data usage, you are going to have to watch it very carefully, there are tons of things that can access data that you didn't know about. I still have 4 days left on my billing cycle and have racked up 6gigs of data usage. Keep in mind that this is with heavy usage. But if your going to have a smartphone, you might as well get unlimited data and use the phone to its full extent. Just my opinion. Best of luck with your choice

 

[Bad Cornflakes]

I absolutely hated my Eris from about the second day of ownership. I stuck with it until the leak updates came along and it got a little better. The day I rooted the Eris was the best phone day I have ever had! I ran a version of Kaos and it drained the battery very quickly. I read a little and tried Nonsesikal and loved it!! I upgraded to the latest version of Nonsensikal (16.1 IIRC) and my phone has been flawless ever since. If you don't want to spend big money on a phone then keep the Eris, get it rooted, pick your favorite ROM and just enjoy! Of course there are nicer/faster/bigger/better phones out, but wait a year and they, too, will be obsolete. It's all about what you can live with for the moment. Good luck!

 

[erisuser1]

doogald, demache:

I will have to admit that Sophie_1983 has done a little bit of homework, and is correct in at least one point: Apparently, a fairly large number of apps register to receive a broadcast intent from the Android e-mail app.

More specifically, opening an email in the Android e-mail app (not Gmail) can immediately launch many applications. (Starting the e-mail app alone, or choosing an account to view the list e-mails present in the inbox does not trigger the behavior - it occurs at the moment when you click to open any individual e-mail).

I ran an experiment where I manually force-closed many applications (not all of them), and then collected the output of "ps" and "cat /proc/meminfo". For grins I also looked at the "PSS" memory statistics in DDMS:

Then I launched the (Android) e-mail app, selected an account, and opened an individual e-mail. Then I waited 10-15 seconds, and repeated the above procedures. Note the shrinkage of the red slice a little later than "noon" - "free memory".

The act of "opening an e-mail" had launched all of the following additional apps on my phone:

Google Maps
Music
YouTube
Vlingo
My Verizon Mobile
Shazam
ES Task Manager
Google QuickSearchBox
Pico TTS
Android TTS
Android Protips (LOL!)
Android Calendar Provider (service)

OTOH, despite all that stuff running on the phone, and the kernel reporting that "MemFree" went from ~30 Mb to ~3 Mb, my phone doesn't grind to a halt. It might be perceptibly slower, but it doesn't seem markedly slower.

The other thing is that (manually) using task manager to kill off the offending apps in fact does reclaim free memory (as reported by the kernel).

From the point of view of a casual user that just wants to "use the phone" and not become a system administrator, I can see part of his (Sophie's) complaint - many, if not most users, don't want to become a technology expert; they just want to use the phone as a convenient appliance.

Still, the the "fault" in the above behavior strictly speaking has little to do with Android per se - it is the behavior and coding of the application developers - and user behavior - that leads (e.g. registering to intercept many different broadcasts) to memory clutter from too many applications. The E-mail application isn't even aware those other apps are present - they register to intercept a broadcast that it produces.

The situation is analogous to what you find with modern applications on PC platforms, whether Windows or Unix derivatives (including Mac OS/X): everybody's application these days wants to automatically launch a "helper" or "quick start" or "updater" application at boot time - or install a toolbar or register some extensions in the user's browser. By the time you've loaded a few dozen applications on your machine, you've got twenty or thirty practically useless processes starting up and consuming resources every time you boot. Should the OS be blamed? The Applications? The User?

That's hard to say - I've used every major PC & Unix OS in the past 30 years, and every one of them could be brought to their knees or worse with indiscriminate user behavior. OTOH - because for most users, the phone is not rooted - when those behaviors occur because the handset maker has preloaded along with the OS a bunch of mis-behaving apps, or improperly tuned the Android low memory killer, it's not hard to see why they might say "Android sucks" - their experience of Android is lumped together with both the hardware performance and the preloaded apps and skins that the carrier and handset maker agreed upon.

Are we worse off because Android allows apps to call other apps and share data? Seems doubtful - the whole history of computing has been about creating new ranges of expressive behaviors and connectedness, and that has led to a profound increase in the underlying complexity of software systems.

If it wasn't for Android's appearance on the scene, you probably still would not be able to cut and paste in IOS. That was what - two years ago?

One more thing - just about every touch screen phone sucks at being a phone - compared to less costly "dumb" phones. If you want just a phone - get a phone with a hardware dialpad, not a touch-screen smartphone.

eu1

 

[Podivin]

EU1, was the test above done with a stock Eris or with one of the custom ROMs?
I'm wondering if a custom ROM would behave differently.

You stated the opening an email in the GMail app didn't cause this to happen. Was the stock email configured for the same GMail account? I'm assuming it was, would a 3rd party email, such as K9, configured to the GMail account behave the same?

 

[erisuser1]

EU1, was the test above done with a stock Eris or with one of the custom ROMs?
I'm wondering if a custom ROM would behave differently.

Well, before I answer that question I'll give some updated information, too.

Note the images above mention use of the autokiller set to my ROM's default values. I also repeated the same experiment, but used the "Aggressive" autokiller preset. Much to my surprise, when I ran the same trials all the way through, the ending configuration looked very much like the 2nd figure above - about 5.4 Mb of "free memory" (as reported by /proc/meminfo)

That sort of shocked me - I thought that maybe the autokiller wasn't working! So, I dug into the source code and discovered that there was a way to turn up the amount of information that the Android LMK logs to kernel messages (found in /proc/kmsg)

adb shell echo '6' > /sys/module/lowmemorykiller/parameters/debug_level

Then, I ran the same experiment twice (clean up apps, start e-mail app, open up an individual e-mail) - using the default and the aggressive Autokiller presets once each.

What I found out was that indeed the autokiller was working: in the default (Autokiller) preset case, it killed off YouTube; but in the aggressive preset case, it killed off 18 different apps over a 30-second period.

So, that's good news - the autokiller works the way you would expect; what it optimizes for, though, is apparently not the same thing as "free memory for file cache". It seems a bit more subtle than that.

In any event, I was using the Conap/Decadenc3 "CFSv9" kernel - it is in pretty wide use now in the Eris Froyo ROMs. So, no - this was not a stock ROM. The stock ROMs do have the Android LMK built in to them, but they might be started with different threshold values than what CFSv9 uses. Additionally, I looks like the source tree for CFSv9 has some back-porting of changes in the LMK that are derived from the 2.6.34 Android kernel, so I can't guarantee that the stock kernels would behave identically with the same parametrization.

You stated the opening an email in the GMail app didn't cause this to happen. Was the stock email configured for the same GMail account? I'm assuming it was, would a 3rd party email, such as K9, configured to the GMail account behave the same?

No, I have a few "junk" e-mail accounts for message boards and so forth, and I just handle them using the Android "mail" application. It was configured for those accounts, not my gmail account. However, I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever what mail account is involved - it's gonna happen if you click on any email with that particular app

There is a sort of workaround, if someone finds this "e-mail app autostarts a bunch of junk" behavior objectionable: log on to Gmail on a real computer, and set it up to pull mail from other accounts that you have - and then set up a Gmail filter to automatically "label" them with a label that is unique to that account. That way, all your mail could be managed through the Gmail app - even mail from different accounts. (You might need to check if the mobile Gmail app honors the settings that you can configure in the web Gmail client: it allows you to specify your sender e-mail address automatically depending on which account the e-mail arrived in. I think it does this, but you should check).

As for K9 vs. the Android e-mail app, I'm not sure - I don't know if two different apps can produce the same broadcast event. The claim that "in principle, any subsystem in Android can be replaced" suggests that K9 might produce the same broadcasts.

There's an easy way to find out though - use a Task Manager, FC most of the non-critical ones, and read an e-mail in K9. Then go back and see if a whole bunch of new apps have started.

The bottom line though, in all of this, is that Android "did the right thing" in every case: judiciously choosing to terminate applications when I tried to load too many of them simultaneously.

eu1