Eris worth the trouble???

[Sophie_1983]

Well, before I answer that question I'll give some updated information, too.

Note the images above mention use of the autokiller set to my ROM's default values. I also repeated the same experiment, but used the "Aggressive" autokiller preset. Much to my surprise, when I ran the same trials all the way through, the ending configuration looked very much like the 2nd figure above - about 5.4 Mb of "free memory" (as reported by /proc/meminfo)

That sort of shocked me - I thought that maybe the autokiller wasn't working! So, I dug into the source code and discovered that there was a way to turn up the amount of information that the Android LMK logs to kernel messages (found in /proc/kmsg)

adb shell echo '6' > /sys/module/lowmemorykiller/parameters/debug_level

Then, I ran the same experiment twice (clean up apps, start e-mail app, open up an individual e-mail) - using the default and the aggressive Autokiller presets once each.

What I found out was that indeed the autokiller was working: in the default (Autokiller) preset case, it killed off YouTube; but in the aggressive preset case, it killed off 18 different apps over a 30-second period.

So, that's good news - the autokiller works the way you would expect; what it optimizes for, though, is apparently not the same thing as "free memory for file cache". It seems a bit more subtle than that.

In any event, I was using the Conap/Decadenc3 "CFSv9" kernel - it is in pretty wide use now in the Eris Froyo ROMs. So, no - this was not a stock ROM. The stock ROMs do have the Android LMK built in to them, but they might be started with different threshold values than what CFSv9 uses. Additionally, I looks like the source tree for CFSv9 has some back-porting of changes in the LMK that are derived from the 2.6.34 Android kernel, so I can't guarantee that the stock kernels would behave identically with the same parametrization.




No, I have a few "junk" e-mail accounts for message boards and so forth, and I just handle them using the Android "mail" application. It was configured for those accounts, not my gmail account. However, I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever what mail account is involved - it's gonna happen if you click on any email with that particular app

There is a sort of workaround, if someone finds this "e-mail app autostarts a bunch of junk" behavior objectionable: log on to Gmail on a real computer, and set it up to pull mail from other accounts that you have - and then set up a Gmail filter to automatically "label" them with a label that is unique to that account. That way, all your mail could be managed through the Gmail app - even mail from different accounts. (You might need to check if the mobile Gmail app honors the settings that you can configure in the web Gmail client: it allows you to specify your sender e-mail address automatically depending on which account the e-mail arrived in. I think it does this, but you should check).

As for K9 vs. the Android e-mail app, I'm not sure - I don't know if two different apps can produce the same broadcast event. The claim that "in principle, any subsystem in Android can be replaced" suggests that K9 might produce the same broadcasts.

There's an easy way to find out though - use a Task Manager, FC most of the non-critical ones, and read an e-mail in K9. Then go back and see if a whole bunch of new apps have started.

The bottom line though, in all of this, is that Android "did the right thing" in every case: judiciously choosing to terminate applications when I tried to load too many of them simultaneously.

eu1

Thanks for your detailed analysis of the problem, However your Final Bottom line seems to contradict what you and everyone else is claiming about Android

It is NOT Android that is performing as intended it is the app "Autokiller", Android as you proved Does not kill the useless programs as needed.

Autokiller may work for you on this matter, but to me it is just another program running in the background sucking down memory and resources. System info shows it fluctuating from 8 to 17 MB of memory on my eris.

Besides the whole argument with Android die hards is that you dont need any type of task killer with it

 

[erisuser1]

Thanks for your detailed analysis of the problem, However your Final Bottom line seems to contradict what you and everyone else is claiming about Android

It is NOT Android that is performing as intended it is the app "Autokiller", Android as you proved Does not kill the useless programs as needed.

Autokiller may work for you on this matter, but to me it is just another program running in the background sucking down memory and resources. System info shows it fluctuating from 8 to 17 MB of memory on my eris.

Besides the whole argument with Android die hards is that you dont need any type of task killer with it

Have a look above about what doogald said about Autokiller: it literally does nothing at all, except allow the user to "tune" the parameters of the Android Low Memory Killer - which is not an app - LMK is built in to the OS kernel. If you don't believe me, feel free to look for "lowmemorykiller.c" in any/all of the Google/Android kernel source trees.

Really Autokiller is only needed at boot time - feel free to nuke it after the phone has booted up. If it continues to catch broadcasts and re-start - and that bothers you - then consider just using a script to set the values. An example of the syntax is likely present in the /init.rc or /init.desirec.rc files in your ROM.

Having said that, Autokiller requires root privileges, and so isn't of any use to owners of stock phones - those folks are stuck with the level of aggressiveness by the LMK set "at the factory".

eu1

 

[doogald]

Wow, I have egg on my face. So sorry for doubting you, Sophie_1983. I guess I never saw this because I never use the email app - well, I tried it a long time ago, but it is a very bad mail client. I have used K-9 before, but I only have it set up for when Google's gmail sync is having problems.

I'll have to see what happens when I launch it. I'm not completely convinced that it will be any better, knowing that K-9 is based on the stock Android mail client.

I do have to say that I feel bad for anybody who must use the HTC or Android email app - they are both pretty awful. And now, seeing this, it seems as if this app is even worse.

 

[doogald]

I'll have to see what happens when I launch it. I'm not completely convinced that it will be any better, knowing that K-9 is based on the stock Android mail client.

It's much better. I killed all background tasks, had 55 MB RAM free, launched K-9 - and the only thing that changed was that K-9 had launched, and I had 53 MB RAM free.

(I should note that this is on CELB Froyo - I'm not sure what happens on stock Eris, but I'd be surprised if it was different.)

 

[erisuser1]

I do have to say that I feel bad for anybody who must use the HTC or Android email app - they are both pretty awful. And now, seeing this, it seems as if this app is even worse.

Strictly speaking it is not the fault of the e-mail app: it merely produces a broadcast, and has no knowledge of what apps have registered to be notified of that broadcast. The fault, if any, is with "greedy" behavior on the part of the applications that have registered to receive the broadcast, a la "I want to make sure MY app is running when the user is reading e-mail, just in case the user (& e-mail program) sends me an intent; that way, there will only be a small delay running MY app".

No problem if there's only an app or two on the phone that does this, but when there's a dozen of 'em, it can lead to memory congestion.

If the K9 app produced the same broadcast, it would have the same effect.

I don't think this should be overblown in terms of its significance to rooted users, though: my phone runs fine with 26 apps in memory and only a few MB of file cache space available in RAM, (with LMK configured to Autokiller's "moderate" pre-set). For folks with stock ROMs, I think I've said before that it was my opinion that HTC could have bumped up the aggressiveness of the LMK low-water settings to make a more pleasant experience for stock ROM users.

 

[angiethemonster]

It really wasn't worth all the time and effort I put into mine. And I had it rooted with nonsensikal. Sorry Eris, but I just got myself a 1st gen. droid. :/

 

[darkside]

It really wasn't worth all the time and effort I put into mine. And I had it rooted with nonsensikal. Sorry Eris, but I just got myself a 1st gen. droid. :/

+1 still the best droid in my opinion, one of the most developed phones as fast as roms and releases. I'm suter you will like the droid 1

 

[LocalHero]

Personally, I'd prefer not to "root" the phone. Just sounds real nerdy.

I still haven't decided what to do with it. Doesn't seem worth the trouble and it's probably best to resell it before the Iphone comes out on verizon, and the market will be even further flooded with Android phones of all shapes and size.

I'm in somewhat the same boat as you... I don't understand half of what is being argued about here and I don't really want to have to.

I just got an Eris via ebay and I did activate it on Page Plus. I highly recommend Page Plus as others have here. There's no contract so you could try it for just a month to see how it works and how much data usage you'll have. Page plus is much cheaper than Verizon.

Search Ebay for a wireless service that will activate your phone on Page plus and port your current # over to your new Eris all for 99c. Easy and very worth the trouble.

I have the Unlimited Talk and Text plan with Page Plus and I only get 20mg of data per month. I thought that would never be enough but the truth is I only use it to check email if I'm not on a wifi connection and I haven't used more than 3mg per month so far. (this was on my older smart phone and PP)
If you're phone crazy and want to be facebooking and youtubing constantly then you just have to pony up and pay the big money. But if you really just want a phone and don't need to use non-wifi data all the time, the eris will do that.

Try it for one month on Page Plus and if it doesn't work out you can probably sell it for more on Ebay.

 

[golfbiz]

Even if you root and install a ROM that looks and works like stock Eris, xtrSENSE for example, you will find a ROM that is running at 710 MHz when you are using it, as opposed to 528 MHz stock - so, yes, performance will increase. It will not turn your phone into one as fast as an Incredible, or a Droid, but it will be faster. Phone function lag will decrease significantly. Using xtrSENSE and its cache2cache feature, room to install applications will grow

100% agree with the above, before I rooted and installed xtrSENSE 4.1 I was ready to ditch my eris, now humming along with no more lag issues, deleted all the bloatware and with cache2cache and all the apps I need still lots of internal storage space, wireless teathering is terrific for my laptop & both setCPU & Titanium are nice apps to add. It is now really what the eris should have been at the start. Not a Thunderbolt but plenty fast now for my needs, however 4G looks pretty intriquing especially for wireless teathering.

 

[bberryhill0]

My Eris runs fine on xtrRom 4.6.5 with 100 apps installed. The only problem I have is that it takes several seconds to hang up after a call. On the rare occasion that I need to use my laptop I tether with PDANet. Sure I would like to have a newer phone but this one will be fine until September 25 when I can get a new one.

 

[paleodust]

I went to my local verizon retailer today, and the salesmen strongly urged me to resell the phone because it is "nothing but trouble". Battery life, reception, freezes, slow, etc.

He started recommending other phones, Droid X, Incredible, etc.

Of course he did!