Help EVDO to LTE Problem on Thunderbolt

[milan03]

Well I'll be honest, this is something that I secretly hoped it wouldn't happen. I knew all along that this could be a problem, and you may ask how did I know that...
Well Thunderbolt uses RF chip from Qualcomm MDM9600 that is capable of supporting LTE, EVDO, CDMA, GSM, HSPA, HSPA+, HSPA-DC, edge, etc... It's a beast. It's backwards compatible with every known RF used in the last decade. Matter of fact, it's the very first chip of a kind, first generation.
Now, that's absolutely phenomenal and good for us future Bolt owners, but there was another Verizon product released in december that uses that same incredible Qualcomm's chip. Its the Aircard UML290 made by Pantech. Ever since UML290 came out users were complaining that when driving from LTE to non-LTE areas the modem completely drops the connection, stays disconnected for sometimes a few minutes, then you would have to redial and reauthenticate through vz acces software. We all hoped that's just the software issue, mac drivers came out a month or so ago, but the problem is still there.
Now that I hear Thunderbolt is having the same issue, I'm starting to think that if Verizon couldn't iron this out in the last 4-5 months, it probably won't be easy to do it in the future. This is where Qualcomm has to step up and provide better support to their product since it looks like the handshake between LTE and EVDO is what's not helping us to get our hands on one of these bad boys.

 

[Lucidot]

Thanks for that info. I wasn't aware of that.

 

[atrain311]

Interesting and disheartening at the same time.

 

[ska.t73]

According to BMX (who works for VZW) the handoff issue has already been worked out. That was the cause of the TB missing the accelerated internal launch date of 2/14/11. He blamed the fix not being implemented sooner on the techs being moved to make sure the 3G network was ready for the iPhone launch.

Accourding to insiders that claim knowledge of the phone it is ready tech wise for a launch, the hold up now is logistical.

 

[atrain311]

According to BMX (who works for VZW) the handoff issue has already been worked out. That was the cause of the TB missing the accelerated internal launch date of 2/14/11. He blamed the fix not being implemented sooner on the techs being moved to make sure the 3G network was ready for the iPhone launch.

Accourding to insiders that claim knowledge of the phone it is ready tech wise for a launch, the hold up now is logistical.

This too, is interesting and disheartening.

 

[skinien]

Well I'll be honest, this is something that I secretly hoped it wouldn't happen. I knew all along that this could be a problem, and you may ask how did I know that...
Well Thunderbolt uses RF chip from Qualcomm MDM9600 that is capable of supporting LTE, EVDO, CDMA, GSM, HSPA, HSPA+, HSPA-DC, edge, etc... It's a beast. It's backwards compatible with every known RF used in the last decade. Matter of fact, it's the very first chip of a kind, first generation.
Now, that's absolutely phenomenal and good for us future Bolt owners, but there was another Verizon product released in december that uses that same incredible Qualcomm's chip. Its the Aircard UML290 made by Pantech. Ever since UML290 came out users were complaining that when driving from LTE to non-LTE areas the modem completely drops the connection, stays disconnected for sometimes a few minutes, then you would have to redial and reauthenticate through vz acces software. We all hoped that's just the software issue, mac drivers came out a month or so ago, but the problem is still there.
Now that I hear Thunderbolt is having the same issue, I'm starting to think that if Verizon couldn't iron this out in the last 4-5 months, it probably won't be easy to do it in the future. This is where Qualcomm has to step up and provide better support to their product since it looks like the handshake between LTE and EVDO is what's not helping us to get our hands on one of these bad boys.

4G Info - 4G News, Reviews, Products - CLEAR, Sprint 4G, VZ4G, WiMAX & LTE

Luckily, Cradlepoint has responded quickly and has released firmware version 1.8.1, which solves the problems and allows the UML290 and VL600 modems to be used in the CTR500/MBR/CBA routers without issue! This latest version fixed the following problems:

• 1.8.0 Pantech UML290/LG VL600 3G Connectivity Issue (no connect/frequent disconnect)
• 1.8.0 Pantech UML290/LG VL600 LTE mode general performance improvements
• 1.8.0 Pantech UML290/LG VL600 LTE mode Lost IP Lease recovery
• 1.8.0 Pantech UML290/LG VL600 non-default DNS Server support improvement
• 1.8.0 Pantech UML290 Signal Strength display update

 

[mdeblaz]

milan03 - Thank you for piecing the 2 separate devices together, this is probably the most realistic reasoning behind any of this.

Luckily, Cradlepoint has responded quickly and has released firmware version 1.8.1, which solves the problems and allows the UML290 and VL600 modems to be used in the CTR500/MBR/CBA routers without issue!

The part that doesn't bode well for the Thunderbolt is this firmware upgrade was only released March 3rd. IF this update also works on the Thunderbolt - which I doubt it is - then VZ still has to apply the firmware upgrade. I doubt they'd want to do this OTA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this type of firmware upgrade can brick devices...

 

[milan03]

According to BMX (who works for VZW) the handoff issue has already been worked out. That was the cause of the TB missing the accelerated internal launch date of 2/14/11. He blamed the fix not being implemented sooner on the techs being moved to make sure the 3G network was ready for the iPhone launch.

Accourding to insiders that claim knowledge of the phone it is ready tech wise for a launch, the hold up now is logistical.

Thanks for this info. I've been following BMX on twitter but I must've missed that post. Today I've read numerous blogs about this LTE issue, and I started worrying again.
HTC ThunderBolt Clues [Wisconsin Rep Talk] | Android Community
Verizon HTC Thunderbolt Naughty: iPad 2 More Important Phone Reviews
HTC ThunderBolt Release Date: March 16 to Avoid iPad 2 Clash? : Online Social Media

 

[skinien]

milan03 - Thank you for piecing the 2 separate devices together, this is probably the most realistic reasoning behind any of this.



The part that doesn't bode well for the Thunderbolt is this firmware upgrade was only released March 3rd. IF this update also works on the Thunderbolt - which I doubt it is - then VZ still has to apply the firmware upgrade. I doubt they'd want to do this OTA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this type of firmware upgrade can brick devices...

If done incorrectly, any firmware update can brick a phone.

If this update was released March 3, it is VERY reasonable to assume that this is what's causing the delay.

When using the radio on a phone, opposed to an aircard/laptop, you are probably going to notice the issue (moving from tower to tower). I bet that once the radio was used with the TB, the problem was discovered and the firmware had to be updated. I don't know how long it would take Verizon to update the stock of phones. Apparently, they don't either - no date announced yet.

Also, I remember a post from Verizon (facebook) that said something along the likes of, "we want everything to work flawlessly". That post is consistent with this issue.

 

[skinien]

Personally, I commend Verizon for holding off on the release to fix known issues. This is something that I wish at&t/Samsung did before I bought my Captivate.

 

[TxGoat]

With all these rumored reasons for all these delays (lets call them rumors since Verizon/HTC hasn't published anything official), one can't help but wonder how well the phone will perform in real world applications. With each new rumor/delay I find it harder and harder to convince myself to purchase this phone.

 

[Cavemansol]

With all these rumored reasons for all these delays (lets call them rumors since Verizon/HTC hasn't published anything official), one can't help but wonder how well the phone will perform in real world applications. With each new rumor/delay I find it harder and harder to convince myself to purchase this phone.

I see where your coming from, but realistically, if theyve ironed out all these issues before its release, there's so little that can go wrong after it launches that its almost bulletproof. Besides the fact that it may be delayed til the thunderbolt 2 comes out

 

[atrain311]

While waiting sucks so much, it will all be worth it if the phone releases and it is smooth as silk and works like a charm. The only thing they can do now to make this situation worse is actually not release the phone or release it and it is a bust, loaded with bugs. I can't stand this wait, but I will be happy if this phone comes out and is all that. Granted, having a great phone in hand certainly helps, so if you are one of those who desperately needs a phone, I can see why this is that much worse for you.

 

[sean76]

Wowwwwww! This thing ain't coming for a few weeks! And rightfully so, it shouldn't if its not ready for prime time. However, my question is this? How come it took so long for a fix? They have been testing the TB for months.

 

[sean76]

I see where your coming from, but realistically, if theyve ironed out all these issues before its release, there's so little that can go wrong after it launches that its almost bulletproof. Besides the fact that it may be delayed til the thunderbolt 2 comes out

hahaha...my man! That made me laugh! We may just be waiting that long till the TB 2.

 

[ska.t73]

Wowwwwww! This thing ain't coming for a few weeks! And rightfully so, it shouldn't if its not ready for prime time. However, my question is this? How come it took so long for a fix? They have been testing the TB for months.

From my understanding it took so long because they had to pull the engineers off the LTE to get the 3G lines ready for the iPhone. At least that is what BMX has said. It is also my understanding form BMX and others that the issue is indeed fixed and that it was the reason for the 2/14/11 date being missed.

The reason for it not launching after that yet had to do with an LTE battery issue.

 

[sean76]

From my understanding it took so long because they had to pull the engineers off the LTE to get the 3G lines ready for the iPhone. At least that is what BMX has said. It is also my understanding form BMX and others that the issue is indeed fixed and that it was the reason for the 2/14/11 date being missed.

The reason for it not launching after that yet had to do with an LTE battery issue.

My friend is a beta tester for VZW, and he works directly with HTC devices. He said they have been working day and night to get the TB programmed...I'll put it this way, he showed me the incredible in Dec of 2009, it didnt release until April 2010! That's how long vzw takes to test they're devices...nuts!

 

[TxGoat]

From my understanding it took so long because they had to pull the engineers off the LTE to get the 3G lines ready for the iPhone. At least that is what BMX has said. It is also my understanding form BMX and others that the issue is indeed fixed and that it was the reason for the 2/14/11 date being missed.

The reason for it not launching after that yet had to do with an LTE battery issue. Verizon wanting to add tiered pricing knowing that the uber-geeks that get the TB were heavy data users.

Fixed.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Well I'll be honest, this is something that I secretly hoped it wouldn't happen. I knew all along that this could be a problem, and you may ask how did I know that...

I dont even know where to start, hangs her head.

Well Thunderbolt uses RF chip from Qualcomm MDM9600 that is capable of supporting LTE, EVDO, CDMA, GSM, HSPA, HSPA+, HSPA-DC, edge, etc... It's a beast. It's backwards compatible with every known RF used in the last decade. Matter of fact, it's the very first chip of a kind, first generation.

Just wrong.

Now, that's absolutely phenomenal and good for us future Bolt owners, but there was another Verizon product released in december that uses that same incredible Qualcomm's chip. This is where Qualcomm has to step up and provide better support to their product since it looks like the handshake between LTE and EVDO is what's not helping us to get our hands on one of these bad boys.

And wrong again.


The current problems with lte is interference.

 

[Atrav]

Personally, I commend Verizon for holding off on the release to fix known issues. This is something that I wish at&t/Samsung did before I bought my Captivate.

Yup same here. I hate my Craptivate.

 

[milan03]

I dont even know where to start, hangs her head.

Just wrong.

And wrong again.


The current problems with lte is interference.

Oh thank you SO MUCH with your thorough explanations.
Means a lot...

 

[swamp]

Well Thunderbolt uses RF chip from Qualcomm MDM9600 that is capable of supporting LTE, EVDO, CDMA, GSM, HSPA, HSPA+, HSPA-DC, edge, etc... It's a beast. It's backwards compatible with every known RF used in the last decade.

No, completely wrong. You may be on to something but the lack of attention to details draw huge suspicion to your entire post/credibility.

MDM product line is for "Mobile Data Modem". These are only for USB modems and the like. They are chipsets, not a chip.

The TB uses the Snapdragon MSM8655 SoC (System on Chip). This is one chip, not a chip set.

Neither is an "RF chip".

Although it does support most of the wireless technologies you mention, the MSM8655 does not support DC-HSPA.

Matter of fact, it's the very first chip of a kind, first generation.

Totally false. The Snapdragon in the TB is a very evolutionary product in the Snapdragon line up, not at all the first of its generation. The first Snapdragon came out in 2008 and powered some very good/well known/successful phones.

Ever since UML290 came out users were complaining that when driving from LTE to non-LTE areas the modem completely drops the connection, stays disconnected for sometimes a few minutes, then you would have to redial and reauthenticate through vz acces software.

Not to make excuses if this in fact was/is a big problem but you do realize that expected use case scenarios for modem cards and mobile phones is quite different, right?

Now that I hear Thunderbolt is having the same issue.

Pure unadulterated speculation. I highly doubt we know the real reason for any delays. Again of course noting that the only deadline that was official was Q1, hence there really is no delay yet.

 

[nkd]

No, completely wrong. You may be on to something but the lack of attention to details draw huge suspicion to your entire post/credibility.

MDM product line is for "Mobile Data Modem". These are only for USB modems and the like. They are chipsets, not a chip.

The TB uses the Snapdragon MSM8655 SoC (System on Chip). This is one chip, not a chip set.

Neither is an "RF chip".

The MSM8655 does not support DC-HSPA.

Ugh.

Just relax. The thunderbolt does use MDM9600, MSM 8655 is a SOC, system on a chip. Its the cpu, gpu and memory controller or what not built in. Go to thunderbolt's website, it says the thunderbolt uses both chips. MDM9600 is what is used for radio I believe and the OP is right. I really dont know why you think his post has no credibility. I really dont know what your whole post meant, are you trying to say that the thunderbolt is not using that chip, and if it is using it, is not doing anything at all?

Seriously why are you taking his post out of context. He never even talked about the snapdragon and he wasn't even referring to snapdragon as the first generation chip of its kind. He was referring to modem chip and not the snapdragon. At first I though you knew what you were talking about but when I saw you comparing his comments to snapdragon I lost interest in your post.

 

[swamp]

Just relax. The thunderbolt does use MDM9600, MSM 8655 is a SOC, system on a chip. Its the cpu, gpu and memory controller or what not built in. Go to thunderbolt's website, it says the thunderbolt uses both chips. MDM9600 is what is used for radio I believe and the OP is right. I really dont know why you think his post has no credibility. I really dont know what your whole post meant, are you trying to say that the thunderbolt is not using that chip, and if it is using it, is not doing anything at all?

Seriously why are you taking his post out of context. He never even talked about the snapdragon and he wasn't even referring to snapdragon as the first generation chip of its kind. He was referring to modem chip and not the snapdragon. At first I though you knew what you were talking about but when I saw you comparing his comments to snapdragon I lost interest in your post.

You are correct. I seriously jumped the gun and made some mistakes in my post. The TB does indeed use both the Snapdragon SoC and MDM9600 chipset (MDM is not a single chip just to be clear - it is 6 chips - hence "chipset"). However, the MDM9600 is much like the Snapdragon in that it is a evolutionary step in a long line of similar products and absolutely is not at all a "first of its kind" nor "first generation". In that the OP is still incorrect.

I still also contend that any link between problems with a modem product using the same chipset and the TB is HIGHLY speculative at best.

Anyway, sorry to the OP and to all.

 

[ska.t73]

Well word from BMX (Verizon Engineer) is that the problem is not with the phone but the LTE network being ready. He says the problem is being worked on day and night to get the phone out (don't want to launch on a network that isn't ready), and he hints that the problem was pulling over half the team off of the LTE to make sure that the 3G network was ready for the iPhone.