theTrashcanMan
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's about the law. Others are saying that, not mod staff.
Contracts are civil matters, not criminal matters. Governments make laws, not carriers. I think we all know that.
While extreme, I see your point about bypassing nav with Google maps.
Here's the whole line-drawing thing for us: the site owner, a single individual, Rob, decides what his conscience allows. He expresses it to the site Admin, Phases. Phases puts it into words we can all grok. Then guides help get the word out, and mods enforce the policy - if we disagree, we're free to surrender our staff positions.
It's not some lengthy process involving detailed examination of the criminal and contract law.
It's a matter of conscience by the site owner. I have read his words privately expressed to us. This isn't about liability or anything like that. It's about his conscience and his sense of what's right and why.
And I can see where he's coming from.
When something changes, such as what anyone may hypothesize, like that GPS thing, we'll deal with that if and when the time comes.
Well we will be sorry to see you go!
The choice made by the site owner of Android Forums is not being made for financial gain. This choice was made for legal and ethical reasons. Some carriers have adopted the attitude that tethering without a contract is a violation of their terms of service, and is a theft of service. Well I can't specifically speak to where you live, but in many places, theft (even of a "soft" product like internet access) is considered to be a criminal offense. Criminal offenses are covered under the local governments criminal statutes. And the penalty for committing a criminal offense can range from a fine to jail time.
Now most of us believe that tethering is not and should not be considered a crime. Unfortunately, however, few (if any) of us are lawmakers and have any control over how each community establishes and enforces it's laws. If the local community considers the individual to be in violation of the law, it's possible that they could also look for accessories to this crime. And based on current events, Android Forums would be at risk of being accused as an "accessory before the fact". To be exonerated of this charge, the owner of Android Forums would have to go to the region in question, and plead his case to the judge (magistrate) assigned to the case. Well if this if taking place on the opposite side of the country (or, for that matter, in another country). this would require the travel, the services of a local lawyer (barrister), numerous court appearances, and a lot of litigation. Litigation costs an obscene amount of money.
Are you aware of the issues that the company that owns Megaupload is presently going through? The officers of the corporation didn't necessarily upload any copyrighted materials to their servers. Subscribers to their service most likely did. But the officers of the corporation (and the corporation in general) are being held responsible for the actions of others. In this case the prosecution is taking place in U.S. Federal court. The principals of the corporation live in other countries and the corporate offices are in Hong Kong (China). Even though these individuals should be held to the laws of their specific region, they are likely going to be charged under U.S. law for a crime that they did not "directly" commit.
While we would prefer to not see you go, we understand and respect your beliefs and principals. With respect to other forums, unfortunately none come to mind!
If you choose to leave Android Forums and cancel your account here, please PM our forum administrator Phases and let him know. That way he can lock your account or, at your specific request, delete it.
So which one is it guys, has this policy come from legal concerns or from moral concerns. You can see where some members here may be confused and would be making accusations when we receive conflicting answers.
I won't speak for the rest of the staff here on Android Forums or Phandroid, but I will say this for myself.
I'm personally quite offended by some of the accusations people are making about this rule. People are implying that we are going out of our way to lie to them about this policy and that this is somehow all about money. During my time as a staff member on this forum I have been insulted and called plenty of names while enforcing the rules of this site, but I have never once been offended by any of it. I let just about anything said towards me roll of my back. This is the first time I can actually say that I am deeply hurt by someone's comment. I'm willing to tolerate the things that have been said to me and some of the things I have seen said to other members of the staff here, but I won't tolerate any of that being done to one of our members and I won't tolerate someone calling me or another staff member a liar.
The staff on this forum spend countless hours trying to make sure that this is the best forum on the net. We all give freely of our time to help members and spend an obscene amount of time trying to make sure that people are treated the way everyone should be, with kindness and respect. The implication that any rule or guideline on this forum has been put in place to line someone's pockets is just preposterous and it is downright rude for anyone to say so. If this was all about money do you really think any of us would be spending time trying to explain it over and over again? On most forums I've ever been to the staff, Admin or Owner would just say, "This is the way it is and if you don't like it you can go suck an egg.", but that isn't being done here. On other forums they would just delete the discussions and ban people who argued about it, but again that isn't being done. Here, the discussion is simply moved to a place were anyone can talk about it. Where anyone can voice their opinion on the matter and the only thing that is required is for people to adhere to the sites rules during that discussion.
If anyone really believes that a rule like this was set in place simply for someone to make money then I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry because you have obviously not understood what this forum is about and you have not realized how different things are around here. I feel sorry for you because the rules of this site and the zero tolerance policy were set in place by people looking to make this a safe and comfortable place for anyone to seek help and/or guidance when using a piece of technology. I feel sorry for those that chose to leave because you won't find another forum like this anywhere on the web and you will have no one to blame other than yourself.
Personally I commend Rob for having principles and sticking by them. Even when others have disagreed with him about this, he continues to be adamant about is personal belief in what is right and wrong and there aren't too many people out there that do that these days.
I understand the offense that you would take from such accusations, I feel the same way about the site owner calling those that tether thieves. Both accusations are unfair and unfounded right now. Just because the carrier(s) or google believe that tethering is illegal doesn't make it so. There are many things that corporations, cities, police depts and even private individuals would have you believe something to be illegal that simply isn't. It is an easy thing to say, "_____ is illegal and I'll call the cops if you don't stop" and most people will stop, not because it's illegal but because it might be illegal and fighting that battle isn't worth the trouble.
I was also a part of this discussion when it was in the evo 4g forum and was quite upset when it was locked. A few days ago I found it and have spent the time since reading and thinking about the subject. I agree that Rob, being the site owner, has every right to make whatever rules he deems fit. However, I would like to point out that as noted before, this is a business and the members(both free and paid) are it's customers. Without customers a business cannot and will not exist. I'm not trying to be disrespectful or making threats, what I'm trying to say is that the more rules like this that are put into place, the more risk the owner has of losing his customers to another less restrictive site. I love AF, this is without a doubt the friendliest board on the internet and so far the rules here have been reasonable, but IMO, this rule is a step in the wrong direction, and will take a little bit away from this community.
I haven't made this post quickly, it's taken me 2 different attempts and a total of about 2 1/2 hours of trying to decide what to say and how to say it. I mean absolutely no disrespect to the site owner, Rob, the administrator, mods, guides or members in this post. I really do appreciate being able to come to this community and be a part of it. I have posted on some boards where a post like this would've earned me a permaban, and if that happens then so be it. I've said what I wanted to say and stand by it.


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