dsmryder
Android Expert
When they say "wireless", they mean through their wireless network.
Not throught WiFi teather.
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Feedback on Tethering - merged from PSA threads
- Thread starter mikekelso421
- Start date
When they say "wireless", they mean through their wireless network.
Not throught WiFi teather.
So, it's pretty simple to see how your carrier stands on a wired tether. If the Market blocks PDANet and EasyTether so you can't get them, then there's their policy in action. Carriers and Google are cooperating on this.
If you can get them by a direct install from the Market, then your carrier has no objection.
And if they change their mind, the app may disappear from your phone, I've already seen this happen.
Hopefully, this will clarify this debate without all of the legal mumbo jumbo.
But you may find that the operative part of the contract is not to connect to a computer by any means, and the wireless part simply adds details for other devices.
If you can get them by a direct install from the Market, then your carrier has no objection.
And if they change their mind, the app may disappear from your phone, I've already seen this happen.
Hopefully, this will clarify this debate without all of the legal mumbo jumbo.
But you may find that the operative part of the contract is not to connect to a computer by any means, and the wireless part simply adds details for other devices.
Chairshot215
Android Expert
I agree that Virgin gave us unlimited plans for our phones so using it elsewhere could be considered theft. Do not agree that other providers who impose a data cap should not be able to tell you what you can do with it. If they are going to charge you regardless if it's used or not should not be able to tell you what how you can use it.
Intercepter
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc12868
Isn't rooting also against ToS?
From the Site Rules & Guidelines:
Quote:
Some say, "well, rooting is against the TOS, so....". Rooting, if against the TOS, could result in a suspended account. That is on you and your responsibility and we're willing to aide in letting you make that choice. It is your device, you should have that choice.
These issues aren't related to rooting in this sense and shouldn't be compared as such. This is a decision made by the owner of this privately run site, which we have the right to do and enforce.
This seems to be all about theft or any illegal activity. Maybe the owner was frightened off by virgin mobile somehow, who knows? So really, all Virgin Mobile or any carrier for that matter would have to do to keep the discussion of rooting off this board would be to offer a $2,000 dollar fee to give us root access then that too would be theft of services. Are you listening VM?
Originally Posted by marc12868
Isn't rooting also against ToS?
From the Site Rules & Guidelines:
Quote:
Some say, "well, rooting is against the TOS, so....". Rooting, if against the TOS, could result in a suspended account. That is on you and your responsibility and we're willing to aide in letting you make that choice. It is your device, you should have that choice.
These issues aren't related to rooting in this sense and shouldn't be compared as such. This is a decision made by the owner of this privately run site, which we have the right to do and enforce.
This seems to be all about theft or any illegal activity. Maybe the owner was frightened off by virgin mobile somehow, who knows? So really, all Virgin Mobile or any carrier for that matter would have to do to keep the discussion of rooting off this board would be to offer a $2,000 dollar fee to give us root access then that too would be theft of services. Are you listening VM?
Can't be.
Restricting you from rooting as a terms of service issue has been been found to be unconscionable (read: not legally valid) whenever challenged in court. Virgin Mobile in particular lost that one in a case just for them. The most they can do by law is void your warranty.
Trying to make this tie to root is a non-starter.
Ladies and gentlemen, your issue isn't so much with us as it is your carrier and your choices about how to deal with this.
One thing we will insist on is that this thread be maintained in a friendly and polite manner.
The owner of this site chose this policy as a matter of conscience, no one got to him.
Andrstein
Lurker
How do we unsubscribe? I searched the control panel but found nothing. A forum who only allows discussion of what the owners feel we should discuss is a bit radical for my conservative taste, regardless of my stance on the issue. Thanks to everyone who never even knew they helped me. Great community!
VoidedSaint
Resident Ninja
i do not believe in sending others over to XDA when something a minor thing such as tethering is against this forums rules. Regardless this forum provides answers to every question you have, and will continue to do such, either publicly or privately, every question can be answered, and generally will be answered.
AF has a reputation of a friendly environment, more of a "family like" environment and will continue to provide that type of feeling. XDA (from the past times i have known) will bash a user for not using the "search" feature, and ultimately make said user uncomfortable will asking questions in that forum, even as simple as rooting help. where AF on the otherhand welcomes any user with any question, and will not bash users for not using help, and staff here will also make sure that it stays that way.
hope this helps.
AF has a reputation of a friendly environment, more of a "family like" environment and will continue to provide that type of feeling. XDA (from the past times i have known) will bash a user for not using the "search" feature, and ultimately make said user uncomfortable will asking questions in that forum, even as simple as rooting help. where AF on the otherhand welcomes any user with any question, and will not bash users for not using help, and staff here will also make sure that it stays that way.
hope this helps.
VoidedSaint
Resident Ninja
Andrstein i feel your pain and frustration i really do.
however you have to take into consideration, this forum was made to help everyone, with issues, to have subject matter experts to help other users on a daily basis. this forum is provided free of charge, with the exception of the premium membership to those who want to contribute to the site.
regardless it is the owners discretion, it is his website. AF staff support and enforce anything he says, we all provide users with information both publicly and privately, if you wish to end your time here that is your choice. i would simply ask you think about it, as issues can always arise, and we will always provide the best information available, every question a user has gets answered, we all want to help others out as much as possible. and we shall continue to do so, hopefully you will give this place another chance, as its just one simple issue. We are glad to provide answers to every bit of information we get, like i said whether its public or private.
good luck to you in whatever journey you wish to take from here. i hope to see you around here more assisting others, or asking questions.
however you have to take into consideration, this forum was made to help everyone, with issues, to have subject matter experts to help other users on a daily basis. this forum is provided free of charge, with the exception of the premium membership to those who want to contribute to the site.
regardless it is the owners discretion, it is his website. AF staff support and enforce anything he says, we all provide users with information both publicly and privately, if you wish to end your time here that is your choice. i would simply ask you think about it, as issues can always arise, and we will always provide the best information available, every question a user has gets answered, we all want to help others out as much as possible. and we shall continue to do so, hopefully you will give this place another chance, as its just one simple issue. We are glad to provide answers to every bit of information we get, like i said whether its public or private.
good luck to you in whatever journey you wish to take from here. i hope to see you around here more assisting others, or asking questions.
VoidedSaint
Resident Ninja
Rom developers provide helpful information to users about the specific rom, whether a user cannot get wifi tether to work is not the rom devs fault, and shouldnt have to provide with information to the user on how to get it to work. its blocked by verizon, are there work arounds? yes! can they be found? yes!
AF provides information to every question asked. and will continue to do so, whether its publicly or privately. regardless of the situation all questions will still be answered.
hope this helps.
AF provides information to every question asked. and will continue to do so, whether its publicly or privately. regardless of the situation all questions will still be answered.
hope this helps.
swc2001
Android Expert
I disagree with the owner VEHEMENTLY but I sure do like what you said. I am sorry your hands are tied on this issue. Thanks for having a good attitude.Andrstein i feel your pain and frustration i really do.
however you have to take into consideration, this forum was made to help everyone, with issues, to have subject matter experts to help other users on a daily basis. this forum is provided free of charge, with the exception of the premium membership to those who want to contribute to the site.
regardless it is the owners discretion, it is his website. AF staff support and enforce anything he says, we all provide users with information both publicly and privately, if you wish to end your time here that is your choice. i would simply ask you think about it, as issues can always arise, and we will always provide the best information available, every question a user has gets answered, we all want to help others out as much as possible. and we shall continue to do so, hopefully you will give this place another chance, as its just one simple issue. We are glad to provide answers to every bit of information we get, like i said whether its public or private.
good luck to you in whatever journey you wish to take from here. i hope to see you around here more assisting others, or asking questions.
VoidedSaint
Resident Ninja
i understand most users do not agree with the policies at hand however, you should realize someone else pays for this website, and helps maintain it, do the writers get paid? i have no clue, do staff? no this is volunteer work to help out. guides enjoy what they do, mods as well.
myself and a number of other guides have helped users with the tether issues before all this mess arose, as well as other issues other users have had, and i always do it because im happy to help, i enjoy helping others when they ask, and i will continue to do so.
i just hope everyone will still stay on this site, as it is possibly the best place to get information and help with their device, even though not many devs post their products here, we still get a lot of traffic, we are not XDA we help others without being mean/rude about it, though XDA may have changed their ways, i do not know, mainly because i do not go there. Rootzwiki is a growing source of information, though its not as popular as XDA or AF. AF will always provide information about any topic brought up, and will help all users the best way we can, whether it be publicly or privately.
myself and a number of other guides have helped users with the tether issues before all this mess arose, as well as other issues other users have had, and i always do it because im happy to help, i enjoy helping others when they ask, and i will continue to do so.
i just hope everyone will still stay on this site, as it is possibly the best place to get information and help with their device, even though not many devs post their products here, we still get a lot of traffic, we are not XDA we help others without being mean/rude about it, though XDA may have changed their ways, i do not know, mainly because i do not go there. Rootzwiki is a growing source of information, though its not as popular as XDA or AF. AF will always provide information about any topic brought up, and will help all users the best way we can, whether it be publicly or privately.
Zoandroid
Android Expert
Very well said!
I will never forget my expereinces on one of the Linux Forums where I was informed that posting how to get root access in their distro gets you banned from the site. Talk about Facism! This forum has never made me feel that way in the slightest, and the good folks here have always offered a friendly and helping hand when I needed it. Some even spent an hour personally helping me late at night just to get things back in order when I had a problem.
Whether we agree or not with the principles behind AF owner's decisions, this is his website. And unlike some forums I have visited, this one is free. So let's show him some courtesy and abide by his decision.
Z
Andrstein
Lurker
So apparently Verizon, by blocking tethering, is violating the terms of their contract that they signed with the FCC to buy into the 4g frequency says this complaint. Is Verizon a "criminal" now too?
Read on and google this topic to form your own opinion.
Free Press files tethering complaint against Verizon - Computerworld
This is only one article of hundreds which all say roughly the same thing. Some say it better, but the gist is the same.
Who's in violation of a contract now?
(also note that I do not condone stealing, nor do I condone pointing fingers and calling others thieves)
Read on and google this topic to form your own opinion. Free Press files tethering complaint against Verizon - Computerworld
This is only one article of hundreds which all say roughly the same thing. Some say it better, but the gist is the same.
Who's in violation of a contract now?
(also note that I do not condone stealing, nor do I condone pointing fingers and calling others thieves)
So apparently Verizon, by blocking tethering, is violating the terms of their contract that they signed with the FCC to buy into the 4g frequency says this complaint. Is Verizon a "criminal" now too?
Free Press files tethering complaint against Verizon - Computerworld
This is only one article of hundreds which all say roughly the same thing. Some say it better, but the gist is the same.
Who's in violation of a contract now?
(also note that I do not condone stealing, nor do I condone pointing fingers and calling others thieves)
I don't think VZW working with Google to prevent easy distribution of apps that break the ToS it's users have signed is a violation of C-Block provisions. IMO the provisions state that VZW has to provide the service it's users pay for and can not throttle the speeds due to "excessive bandwith" they can still try to prevent their customers from using a service they sell if the customer does not pay for the service, and says nothing about the service needing to be free.
There are plenty of articles that see the provisions differently as well PSA: Verizon Locking Bootloaders On LTE Devices Likely Does Not Violate FCC Block C Spectrum Rules most the articles written like the one you referenced are just reporting on the initial complaint.
Google is the reasons the provisions were part of block C it isn't something the FCC had in to begin with, I think Google would not restrict access to those apps on the market if they felt VZW was in violation of the the provisions they (google) requested, at least not for VZW LTE devices.
In the end the FCC has the final say in if they are in violation. Even if the FCC was to rule in favor of free press VZW could then just say "Okay we will now include tethering in all of our plans and start charging a higher rate for our data plans since the increased traffic will cause a greater need for network maintance"
marc12868
Android Expert
So, it's pretty simple to see how your carrier stands on a wired tether. If the Market blocks PDANet and EasyTether so you can't get them, then there's their policy in action. Carriers and Google are cooperating on this.
If you can get them by a direct install from the Market, then your carrier has no objection.
And if they change their mind, the app may disappear from your phone, I've already seen this happen.
Hopefully, this will clarify this debate without all of the legal mumbo jumbo.
But you may find that the operative part of the contract is not to connect to a computer by any means, and the wireless part simply adds details for other devices.
Ok so the fact that I flashed to a 100% unrooted stock rom with no mods or buil.prop editing and I can find PDANet and EasyTether lite as well as a crapload more in the market means that VM doesn't care that we tether?
It's clear that they seem to not care about that.
Carriers can detect if you're using that if they want to. If they send you a nice message asking you to update your service for using it, you'll know more, as I've little doubt these policies evolve faster than we can keep up - there are only so many of us, this is just one issue (important, I'm not downplaying it) on a site with many important issues - and everything in the ToS is in legalese.
All of the carriers know how to cooperate with Google on this sort of thing.
If they are ok with you using that, then I don't think it's a loophole. As I say, I've read of cases where carriers are not-ok, ok, and ok-if-you-pay for wired tether. When they're not ok with it, they block it on the Market to their subscribers.
If it's in the Market, then it seems reasonable that it's not falling under the not-ok category - it's between you and carrier if they charge you from there.
~~~~~~~~ Just a note in general to no one in particular, but maybe to everyone ~~~~
We care about maintaining our site. That means seeing after our site rules. There's a lot of wording there, but it's really pretty simple - I'll bet you can classify all of our rules as please be polite and please be honest.
We're not the carrier cops. If a carrier says in a clear way, this is dishonest or not ok or whatever like that, then we don't go for it. If a carrier says, this app is free to you in the Market (when so many others don't), then it's not our job to police the carrier's relationship with you or Google.
The honest thing to do is to call or write VM (or your carrier) if you have access to a wired tether app and ask their policy. They might say yes, or they might say yes with a fee. But I don't think they've been under a rock on this when so many others are restricting it.
That's the best I can say - honesty is the best policy and when in doubt, ask.
marc12868
Android Expert
The honest thing to do is to call or write VM (or your carrier) if you have access to a wired tether app and ask their policy. They might say yes, or they might say yes with a fee. But I don't think they've been under a rock on this when so many others are restricting it.
That's the best I can say - honesty is the best policy and when in doubt, ask.
Thanks I personally don't use tethering, but I may send them an email just to find out for future reference!
Thanks!
Please let us know how they respond!
Please let us know how they respond!
ok i may have read this a lil wrong,its 2:49 am for me, but i read every ones post, now i sorta see where you guys are coming from, but i must clarify something. In a few post i read that this site may run into legal problems and such but in no way shape or from is tethering illegal, many years ago some company tried making it as such but it didn't go as they planned and tethering has been around since ages i remember my very first cellphone was able to do it of course it wasn't wireless tethering back then. I also want to add that some companies, metro pcs, does not have a tethering plan, where does that put metro pcs members when it comes to this new rule. This does apply to others in a way because there is an option and they stealing from a company from making money from users with a tethering plan , which is stupid in my view, but with metro said plan is not available so we are not stealing just breaking the TOS the very same way we are breaking the TOS in regards to rooting in the first place.
The owner of Android Forums has a different view, and won't allow discussion of how to break the tethering T&C. You may not like it, indeed nobody suggests that you have to, but it's Rob's site, he pays for its upkeep, so please respect his decision.
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
Not stealing when rooting (or jailbreaking) according to the governing entity which oversees copyrights, etc: the National Register of Copyrights.
Extract:
"On balance, the Register concludes that when one jailbreaks a smartphone in order to make the operating system on that phone interoperable with an independently created application that has not been approved by the maker of the smartphone or the maker of its operating system, the modifications that are made purely for the purpose of such interoperability are fair uses."
Wrt tethering, there is an Android Forum policy, which Slug (and every Staffer at AF) has repeated around the forums many many times: we can't allow discussion of anti-ToS procedures. Rooting is not included in that and has not been for nearly two years now.