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FPS Cap Question

Whine? Wow, just wow. Thats almost as bad as the iPhone fans telling people that they're whining over the antenna issue.

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So losing reception and dropping phone calls because of how you hold the phone is the equivalent of taking .005 more seconds to scroll to the bottom of a settings page that you're on .0005% of the time you're using the phone?


I've heard it all now.

I doubt the choppiness of the settings menu has anything to do with FPS, if that's the case, then why aren't all the home pages, app drawer, contacts, pictures, web pages etc. choppy since they are also limited by the FPS cap? There is something in the settings menu that loads slowly, and I'll bet money it's the Applications folder which takes forever to open when you select it anyways. You are attaching stuff to FPS that has nothing to do with it. The real difference is hardly noticeable.

That is unless you spend all day swiping your finger on the screen back and forth as fast as you can for no good reason.
 
I am trying to just be honest. The 30fps should not be noticeable on a 4 inch screen from your average viewing distance. A lot of video games for the ps3 and xbox are capped at 30fps, there is no difference between how they display a 30fps game and how your phone displays it. None. If it is a non issue for ps3 and xbox it is a non issue for the htc evo.
You keep going back to the TV/Video game analogy like it is proving your point. As if it is the same thing. I argue that it is not.

It seems to me that your argument is that these two devices are proportionate (ok, they are) and that you interact with them in the same way to create the same results (this is not true). When scrolling across your phone's little screen, how easy/often do you scroll through the entire screen width? What about when playing a video game?

I don't know about you, but I scroll through the entire screen width/length of my phone every time that I swipe through my home screens, or scroll a web page, or scroll my app drawer, or drop my notification bar, or scroll through photos, etc... While I am doing this, I am looking to either reach the extreme end of the scrolling limit (bottom/top of the page), or I am trying to skim text or focus on a certain point such as an icon. Then once I see it, I can immediately touch anywhere on the screen to access what I need. So all of this entails a very fast and accurate interaction.

How often do you scroll through the entire screen width/length when playing a video game? Assuming the typical first person perspective (such as with Halo) has a viewing area of about 90degrees, you will scroll the entire TV screen viewing area once if you make a 90degree turn. Or you can scroll the entire viewing area twice if you make a 180degree turn. Now, when you are scrolling, do you have to be able to read? Or do you have to look for the giant figure of your enemy as he's closing in on you? This requires a very fast, but not accurate interaction.

So now you say "what if it's someone shooting at you from a distance?" Glad you asked. In that situation, assuming you are not running for cover and instead you are trying to quickly react and fire back, sure you will turn a maximum of 180degrees (two screen widths) really quick. But then you then have to slow down with your joysticks and fine tune your crosshairs to the point you are looking for (remember, you cannot just instantly touch the area of the screen that you want). So this situation requires much slower but not accurate interaction. Unless you are good enough to spin and fire on-the-fly. In this case your accuracy suffers dramatically due to the FPS cap. Give it a try on a small stationary target. This action requires a very fast and accurate interaction, the same as with your phone. You could swear that you hit it as you spin, but you will most often miss it because of the frame rate giving you inaccurate information about when/where you actually fired.

These situations are now matched up and show your key differences in how the 30FPS cap is perceived. HOWEVER, keep in mind that in the video game you are not constantly spinning in circles, causing your entire screen width to scroll repeatedly... that is assuming if you are any good at your game. But when using your phone, this is exactly what you are doing.

Because the phone often requires (or could at least heavily benefit from) a much more finely tuned interaction than a video game, I argue that the FPS cap can make a very big difference much much much more often. And the video game analogy does not usually apply, though it is observable in situations where you are interacting in a way that is graphically intensive (in a way that exploits the FPS shortcomings).


Edit: I feel the need to clarify that I do not believe the FPS cap causes hard stuttering/choppiness in the way that many others are suggesting. I believe the FPS cap is hindering the ability of the eye to easily follow something that is in motion... if that makes sense...:rolleyes:
 
Has anyone used Fraps to capture video on their PC? Fraps will display the framerate of the game/video you are capturing. A game running at 60fps is SO MUCH SMOOTHER than one running at 30FPS. If you think 30FPS is acceptable, then maybe 30 FPS on the EVO is acceptable. But if you can have exceptional, why not?

And CriticalCritic is exactly right about the relative speeds affecting your perception of framerate smoothness. If you scroll something fast from top to bottom on an EVO, you're asking the phone to make the screen travel 800 pixels in the short duration of your swipe. Nowhere in a console would you be able to input that kind of velocity request. The only time I can think of where you would be able to simulate that kind of speed is with an FPS on a PC playing with a mouse. And I know well from experience that 30FPS is very jerky in those situations. A very slow finger swipe would naturally look very smooth, because the distance between frames is so small. But the faster your screen scrolls, the more frames it needs to preserve smoothness.
 
You keep going back to the TV/Video game analogy like it is proving your point.

Edit: I feel the need to clarify that I do not believe the FPS cap causes hard stuttering/choppiness in the way that many others are suggesting. I believe the FPS cap is hindering the ability of the eye to easily follow something
that is in motion... if that makes sense...:rolleyes:

But once again. The average desktop for win 7 rarely exceeds 20fps. So if you are going to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, the desktop on most pcs does not exceed 10-20 frames per second. Why? Because it does not generate enough frames per second to display. Even when scrolling through menus. Which is what you are talking about. Now with the 30fps in games is just like xbox.

So understand that in most cases your pc desktop does not exceed 20fps, why should your phone desktop? And if in most cases, xbox or ps3 does not exceed 30fps playing games, why should your phone playing games? We also have to understand that there is a huge difference between a 40 inch screen and a 4 inch screen. Crossing a 40 inch screen requires a lot more frames then a 4 inch screen, 30 frames would seem pretty smooth, covering the right side to left side of a 40 inch screen, with 30 frames is still pretty smooth.

But I do agree with the last statement, fps helps reduce motion blur, which makes things easier to read when you are scrolling. I just do not know if the whole 12 frames more per second would make any difference with that. But the argument for on this subject is about lagginess, which is not a product of frames per second.
 
Has anyone used Fraps to capture video on their PC? Fraps will display the framerate of the game/video you are capturing. A game running at 60fps is SO MUCH SMOOTHER than one running at 30FPS. If you think 30FPS is acceptable, then maybe 30 FPS on the EVO is acceptable. But if you can have exceptional, why not?
But alot of game manufactures have chosen to capped ps3 and xbox 360 games at 30fps. So if is soo wrong to have it one a phone, why is it ok for professional game makers to do it on a phone? Why should playing games on your phone exceed that of you playing on a console?
 
Uh...the Hero has inferior hardware to the EVO, but its transitions are smoother. What does this tell you? Go test it on an Incredible yourself.

Why should I? You're the one that needs to provide the proof.

Also, you forget the GPU on the Snapdragon is very weak.

Here is more proof of the 30fps issue. It can only be fixed by a root.


Touch sensor lag is NOT caused by the 30fps cap. That last video demonstrates the EXACT SAME thing even though it's supposed to be "fixed" in that video.

I run CM6, I know this for a fact.

Also, if FPS2D getting a framerate of ~50 is critical to your enjoyment of the device, then you need to recheck your priorities.

Finally, the reason people are getting so huffy with you is because you are proclaiming this cap to be a significant issue of the EVO, apparently comparable to dropping calls on the iPhone in your mind. An issue that is not only incredibly hard to reproduce (since MOST things never reach 30fps), incredibly hard to notice (as noted by people not even realizing it), being mostly irrelevant, and an acknowledged tradeoff for HDMI.
 
Holy crap, these posts are way too long for me to read/reply on my phone so I'll keep this short.

30 fps cap
Touch lag

These two problems exist, end of story. I'm not gonna argue where the problem comes from, how they're related, or how you're too blind to see a difference between root/non root. Seriously drop your loyalties, HTC isn't doing you any favors.

I have an iPhone and I complain about it's flaws such as the antenna. I don't argue about it till the end of time about how it doesn't "exist". Remember Fanboys aren't exclusive to apple devices and just look in a mirror for a sec.

I've actually owned both phones so I can make some form of comparison.
 
Holy crap, these posts are way too long for me to read/reply on my phone so I'll keep this short.

30 fps cap
Touch lag

These two problems exist, end of story. I'm not gonna argue where the problem comes from, how they're related, or how you're too blind to see a difference between root/non root. Seriously drop your loyalties, HTC isn't doing you any favors.

I have an iPhone and I complain about it's flaws such as the antenna. I don't argue about it till the end of time about how it doesn't "exist". Remember Fanboys aren't exclusive to apple devices and just look in a mirror for a sec.

I've actually owned both phones so I can make some form of comparison.

If you actually bothered to read, you'd know my issue isn't that the 30fps cap exists, its that you seem to think it's such a severe problem as on the level of dropping calls (like the iPhone).
 
If you actually bothered to read, you'd know my issue isn't that the 30fps cap exists, its that you seem to think it's such a severe problem as on the level of dropping calls (like the iPhone).

If you'd bother to read you would know that my comment was general and not specific to you.

No where did I say the antenna issue is comparable to the 30 fps. I brought up the antenna as an example of how phones have flaws. Maybe I should of used a different example.

You made the comparison up in your own head.
 
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