Gay Rights

[Crude]

Nope, live and let live. If you are happy, good enough for me. And it should be good enough for the bible thumpers too. The bible preaches acceptance, above all else, no?

AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaactually no. Standards>tolerance. That's what this is really about anyway. Society is trying to change the moral standards and that's it. Gay isn't nature it's in your head. Oh squirrels are gay? Well yes actually, in the absence of females they are. Introduce a female and mysteriously they become straight. And if it was genetics what gene tells gays to act like that? Wear tight pants? Talk like a stoned squirrel. Man you guys are so confused.

 

[chrisinsocalif]

But it reminds me of a quote for those who are religious, altered a little bit to fit this thread:
"God made them homosexuals, who are you to question his wisdom?"

I really don't find any validity in the Bible and actually find it quite ridiculous. It's sad people still follow and refer to an old, hypocritical, ambiguous book which suggest some really bad things. We live in an the information age, we don't need to follow old fairly tales to explain what is going on in the world. If people want to make another thread to discuss that topic...I will gladly join in the discussion.

 

[Vihzel]

AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaactually no. Standards>tolerance. That's what this is really about anyway. Society is trying to change the moral standards and that's it. Gay isn't nature it's in your head. Oh squirrels are gay? Well yes actually, in the absence of females they are. Introduce a female and mysteriously they become straight. And if it was genetics what gene tells gays to act like that? Wear tight pants? Talk like a stoned squirrel. Man you guys are so confused.

WOW... first of all, there is NO gene that tells ANYONE how to act. That's just completely absurd to even ask that. Also, you're stereotyping that gay people talk with a lisp. I, for one, only have a very slight lisp. I have gay friends who have a strong one and others who would shock you if they told you that they were gay based off of stereotypes.

I did NOT choose to be this way. I did NOT just simply wake up one day back in 6th grade and decide that I wanted to be beaten by my father twice, harassed endlessly until senior year of high school, and think about committing suicide and pray to God why people wouldn't accept me for who I am. Even today, I am discriminated against and hated simply because of who I am. I can't change my sexual preference as much as you can't change yours.

If it matters at all, my brother is also gay. I believe that the answer lies within genetics.

 

[Vihzel]

Again... I would like for a moderator to close both threads. People have made their point and now it's just going to be inadvertent personal attacks.

 

[inssane]

Again... I would like for a moderator to close both threads. People have made their point and now it's just going to be inadvertent personal attacks.

+1
People are circumventing discussions regarding actual logic and resorting to being rude.

I guess the Bible doesn't teach compassion, just hate.

 

[IOWA]

How do you know that your view is right and the others aren't? How do you know that your view is not the distorted one? It's your interpretation - which is fine for you to live by.


I will again say that interpretation has nothing to do with believing in God or not. I went to a Catholic kindergarten, grade school, high school, and university so please don't tell me about Catholicism.

I have always believed that people who take the bible literally do so because they are unable and/or unwilling to apply the ideas and the general stories in the bible to their own lives.

Per Miriam-Webster:

Main Entry: 1Chris

 

[inssane]

If it matters at all, my brother is also gay. I believe that the answer lies within genetics.

Like I said in one of the two threads, NURTURE.
Some people have negative past experiences and it affects their emotional development and thoughts on topics. And there is nothing wrong with this, it's we all develop differently and that's what makes us diverse.

I am not attacking you as I can see what you are saying, not that I agree, but you are drawing a point. It just seems that you have hostility towards the topic.

 

[inssane]

That post is full of fail.

That being said, can you please point out where I stated my personal beliefs? All I've cited is pure fact unless otherwise indicated.

And if you believe in the teachings of Christ, well he says follow the Bible. Which one do you follow? I do know they all pretty much explicitly come against homosexuality. So a homosexual Christian would be the very definition of blasphemy.

It's crap when you don't agree.
I just showed you what the definition of a Christian is and Churches that fit the model of Christianity and you simply say it's full of crap.
Sorry if you don't agree, I am not asking you to. I still think that you are a good person, but if I were gay, it seems that you would not accept me.

The Bible teaches acceptance as others have said.

 

[IOWA]

It's crap when you don't agree.
I just showed you what the definition of a Christian is and Churches that fit the model of Christianity and you simply say it's full of crap.
Sorry if you don't agree, I am not asking you to. I still think that you are a good person, but if I were gay, it seems that you would not accept me.

The Bible teaches acceptance as others have said.

The Bible itself is a hypocrite. And since it was penned by man, it is fallible. I'm just stating facts of what Christianity consists of, which is hard enough, because there are so many different versions. But everything I've seen, has come against homosexuality 100%.

And no matter how you try to spin it, or how many times you say "its only because I don't agree", you can't change that cold hard fact. Every Christian bible that prays to the deity of God and Jesus, comes against homosexuality, and says homosexuality is a sin, and therefore you will go to hell. According to the bible, everyone is going to hell, unless they are constantly repenting, as if you have sin at all, you cannot enter the gates of heaven. So basically, everybody in todays age is going to hell, according to the bible.

But it has become so convenient for people to warp the bible into their own personal beliefs, and block out what they don't like to hear, and therefore create their own version of Christianity that is custom tailored for them. But that is not following the bible, and hence not true Christianity.

Arguing anything else is just pure semantics, and therefore not valid.

 

[chrisinsocalif]

I find myself being pretty tolerant. I accept gays, religion (I am an atheist), just wish people would keep it to themselves. Some religious dogma gets intertwined with government and my personal life which I really do not like. Being in the religious minority(or lack thereof), I have to deal with it for now. Hopefully we will continue to progress as a society in a positive direction and know it will never be perfect.

 

[Crude]

The Bible teaches acceptance as others have said.

Wrong, read it again.

 

[Crude]

WOW... first of all, there is NO gene that tells ANYONE how to act. That's just completely absurd to even ask that. Also, you're stereotyping that gay people talk with a lisp. I, for one, only have a very slight lisp. I have gay friends who have a strong one and others who would shock you if they told you that they were gay based off of stereotypes.

I did NOT choose to be this way. I did NOT just simply wake up one day back in 6th grade and decide that I wanted to be beaten by my father twice, harassed endlessly until senior year of high school, and think about committing suicide and pray to God why people wouldn't accept me for who I am. Even today, I am discriminated against and hated simply because of who I am. I can't change my sexual preference as much as you can't change yours.

If it matters at all, my brother is also gay. I believe that the answer lies within genetics.

L Ofreaking L
you just misread every point I was trying to make. I give up..

 

[aiz4andy]

I find it amusing when Christians tell how others are not true Christians because their view does not meet their own. It was mentioned in this thread about how there are 15 flavours of Christianity. Wrong. At the last count there were over 30,000 denominations.

I also get the irony (inssane's post) involved with Jesus being sent to the Jews as their saviour, yet don't recognise him and instead is picked up as a god by Gentiles as their saviour. However, I wouldn't expect a Christian to understand that irony.

My personal feelings on this is that all religion is nonsense and is only around today because of indoctrination and ignorance. Every religious person believes their thoughts on the subject are the right ones which in their mind actually gives credence to their own personal views, however twisted they may be.

And it's all very well talking about marriage and separation of church and state. Maybe you would have more of a point if you took "In God We Trust" off your bank notes and removed "One Nation under God" from your Pledge of Allegiance before you started claiming a institution spanning many continents, cultures, religions and thousands of years as your own little idea.

 

[inssane]

Wrong, read it again.

That would require a different interpretation, which would not make me a true Christian - why don't you point it out for me.
I just remember being taught in 17 years of Catholic schooling about acceptance, maybe they were wrong.

-----------------

I think this brings my point to a nice close in regards to this topic in particular

But the Lord said to Samuel,

 

[inssane]

Arguing anything else is just pure semantics, and therefore not valid.

Like I said, you can't see beyond your blinders. You are making Christianity sound like an exclusive club in which only the pure can partake.

There is a study that shows that by age 20, 75% of Americans have had premarital sex. That number rises to 95% by age 44.
So apparently only 5%, at worst, of Americans, not all of which are Catholic or Christian, are not "top quality" according to your ideology.

This verse has been "interpreted" to regard the forbidding of premarital sex. None of the translation specifically say so however.

But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.
1 Corinthians 7:2

So if you ever had premarital sex (I don't care to know), that means that you contradict your own thoughts on reading and following the bible line for line.

You said yourself that, "The Bible itself is a hypocrite" would make you one as well for picking and choosing which version is "correct" and telling other people that they are wrong.

It seems funny that the only people here that are Bible banging are the ones that insist everyone else's ideas and thoughts on this topic are wrong.

Everything is NO
NO gay marriage
NO homosexuality
NO acceptance
NO tolerance

Sounds alot like Nazi Germany if you ask me and none of what you're preaching sounds much like the accepting religion that I grew up with.

 

[IOWA]

Like I said, you can't see beyond your blinders. You are making Christianity sound like an exclusive club in which only the pure can partake.

There is a study that shows that by age 20, 75% of Americans have had premarital sex. That number rises to 95% by age 44.
So apparently only 5%, at worst, of Americans, not all of which are Catholic or Christian, are not "top quality" according to your ideology.

This verse has been "interpreted" to regard the forbidding of premarital sex. None of the translation specifically say so however.

But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.
1 Corinthians 7:2

So if you ever had premarital sex (I don't care to know), that means that you contradict your own thoughts on reading and following the bible line for line.

You said yourself that, "The Bible itself is a hypocrite" would make you one as well for picking and choosing which version is "correct" and telling other people that they are wrong.

It seems funny that the only people here that are Bible banging are the ones that insist everyone else's ideas and thoughts on this topic are wrong.

Everything is NO
NO gay marriage
NO homosexuality
NO acceptance
NO tolerance

Sounds alot like Nazi Germany if you ask me and none of what you're preaching sounds much like the accepting religion that I grew up with.

Then you got taught your religion wrong. Like it or not, the bible dictates Christianity. If you want to morph it to your own version, that's fine, but that's not really Christianity, now is it?

Have you ever heard of sodom and gomora? According to the bible, God wasn't too tolerant there, now was he? And oddly enough that resembles our current day and age minus our technology hmmm....

You can be in denial all you like, that doesn't change facts.

 

[inssane]

Problem is that I have provided many, many facts and I feel like I am listening to a broken record just telling me that I am wrong, with no logical rebuttal on any scripture versus I have quoted to prove one of the many points that I have drawn.

I can compile all the facts that I have posted, but in reality you are just going to say I am wrong and indirectly address what I have to say.

But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”
—1 Samuel 16:7

That sounds like compassion and understanding to me. You see a gay guy and you judge his lifestyle - God looks into his heart.
Were men not created in God's image? You fundamentalists eat that crap up but have no justification as to why there are serial killer "God images" in the world.

 

[aiz4andy]

Sodom and Gamora? A chap called Lot was saved from that devastation because he was deemed to be morally good.

Lot was the same guy who offered up his young virgin daughters to be gang-raped by a baying mob.

What a great guy!

 

[inssane]

Sodom and Gamora? A chap called Lot was saved from that devastation because he was deemed to be morally good.

Lot was the same guy who offered up his young virgin daughters to be gang-raped by a baying mob.

What a great guy!

Us preaching logic will do no good.
I "distort" my religion as well as others pick and choose what sounds right to follow.

 

[IOWA]

Problem is that I have provided many, many facts and I feel like I am listening to a broken record just telling me that I am wrong, with no logical rebuttal on any scripture versus I have quoted to prove one of the many points that I have drawn.

I can compile all the facts that I have posted, but in reality you are just going to say I am wrong and indirectly address what I have to say.

But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”
—1 Samuel 16:7

That sounds like compassion and understanding to me. You see a gay guy and you judge his lifestyle - God looks into his heart.
Were men not created in God's image? You fundamentalists eat that crap up but have no justification as to why there are serial killer "God images" in the world.

You preaching logic?!? You have none. Zip. Nadda. You say you can distort Christianity in your own personal way yet still be a believer? WTF? How does that make sense? Did Apple accidentally hit you with the RDF?

And if you thought about it logically, for once, when God says he's looking into your heart, he's looking at your sins, or hopefully the lack thereof. Guess what homosexuality is considered according to God? Sin. (Repeated multiple times throughout the bible, and in FACT, that's where the word sodomy is derived from!)

And where did I judge anyone? I'm simply spelling out what the Bible says. You can't ignore cold hard fact, period. You can't be a Christian, and pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow, and which not to follow. Just doesn't work that way. According to God, anyways.

Sit down.

 

[IOWA]

Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."

The standard man must meet is God's perfection. Who can match that? It is a goal so far away that no one could ever reach it. To make matters worse, James tells us that

"whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all" (James 2:10).

This means if someone breaks just one of the commandments, he is as guilty as if he had broken all ten!

The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true with homosexuality.

However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).

Now argue with the Bible, as it just said your wrong.

 

[aiz4andy]

I once saw a banner at a gay pride march that read:

"Jesus hung out with 12 guys and a prostitute. He was more like me than you."

 

[IOWA]

Links to scripture.

http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Genesis 19.1-13#ref=Ge 19:1–13,hi=Ge 19:1-Ge 19:13&ver=NIV

Leviticus 18:22 (NIV) - "? ?Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Romans 1.26-27#ref=Ro 1:26–27,hi=Ro 1:26-Ro 1:27&ver=NIV

http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Romans 1.26-27#ref=Ro 1:26–27,hi=Ro 1:26-Ro 1:27&ver=NIV

http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/1 Corinthians 6.9#ref=1 Co 6:9,hi=1 Co 6:9-1 Co 6:9&ver=NIV

http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Romans 1.26-27#ref=Ro 1:26–27,hi=Ro 1:26-Ro 1:27&ver=NIV

http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/1 Corinthians 6.9#ref=1 Co 6:9,hi=1 Co 6:9-1 Co 6:9&ver=NIV

http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Romans 1.24-27#ref=Ro 1:24–27,hi=Ro 1:24-Ro 1:27&ver=NIV

1 Corinthians 6:9?10 (NIV) - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither..."

http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/2 Corinthians 5.17#ref=2 Co 5:17,hi=2 Co 5:17-2 Co 5:17&ver=NIV

http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Philippians 4.13#ref=Php 4:13,hi=Php 4:13-Php 4:13&ver=NIV

 

[inssane]

The standard man must meet is God's perfection. Who can match that? It is a goal so far away that no one could ever reach it. To make matters worse, James tells us that



This means if someone breaks just one of the commandments, he is as guilty as if he had broken all ten!

The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God

 

[IOWA]

I don't see where I was wrong unless your are interpreting what I said incorrectly. /sarcasm

Maybe it's because I'm tired as hell, but I'm not making any sense out of that sarcasm o.o