Help!! My church has gone to the dark side!!

[jwp1223]

Well just sit back and wait and see if it blows up in their face or they may like it. I hate to say it but your acting kinda childish over this. I agree its a waste of money but I must say I have been curious about the imacs and been thinking about picking up an older one to see what the hype is all about.

I know there are fan boys out there but dont blame apple as they just put a product out. sure they advertise it as the better than the pc but thats the name of the game. No different than coke vs pepsi, or GM vs Ford. Its the die hard fans that goes overboard as its the best ever. I have seen nascar fans that says they will only drive a certain brand of car. As thats what their favorite driver dives on the track.

Its called brand loyalty and no apple wasnt the first to do it. Its been around for ages and it will not stop anytime soon.

In the end its not your money but the churches and the members of your church gives their money to the church to do with as they see fit. I would say with that much money looking to be spent. I think the members should vote on if this apple system should be bought or not.

Actually he's not acting childish at all. He does IT for a living, everyone at my church knows what I do for a living (Asset Protection, so I deal with a lot of security issues, security systems etc etc), so they come to me for an opinion, but I also do IT on the side, (Information Security, Networking, etc etc), so again, they know this, so they come to me for advice.

If they had someone come in, they make sure I am there. I see where he's getting at. Maybe it's because you don't go to church, and are not part of something like that, so you don't get it.

I'd hate to have a church, come in ask me to build a system, consult on it, and then when its time to redo the sound, some jagoff comes in, and feeds them a load of crap on something that doesn't need to be changed.

 

[Dark Jedi]

Actually he's not acting childish at all. He does IT for a living, everyone at my church knows what I do for a living (Asset Protection, so I deal with a lot of security issues, security systems etc etc), so they come to me for an opinion, but I also do IT on the side, (Information Security, Networking, etc etc), so again, they know this, so they come to me for advice.

If they had someone come in, they make sure I am there. I see where he's getting at. Maybe it's because you don't go to church, and are not part of something like that, so you don't get it.

I'd hate to have a church, come in ask me to build a system, consult on it, and then when its time to redo the sound, some jagoff comes in, and feeds them a load of crap on something that doesn't need to be changed.

Well he is still harping on it and showing it really gets to him. He should of just made his dislikes known to the church and if they didnt side with him. He should of walked away from it. He was the go to guy for AV questions and to run the system and now they get soemthing he knows nothing about. So he feels threaten and that he looses status in the church and he will be like every normal "JOE" in the church with no real function. I know many people likes to have status in the church that makes them stand out from the masses.

So yeah to me he is kinda acting childish.

 

[EarlyMon]

You both raise good arguments - but let's remember that this is just text and we miss tone of voice and expressions from A.Non, so you could both, either or neither be right.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I have never said Macs were inferior. I just said that someone picking them to replace a working system "because they're better" is a BS reason. If they are in fact better (and they may well be), then I want to know exactly why they are better. What can we do with a projection system on a Mac that we can't do on a PC. What justifies spending $1500 or more on an iMac. What benefit do we get for that extra cost? Is the extra benefit worth the cost?

I've known the people making this decision for 20 years. They've asked my opinion in the past on every IT related decision. Sometimes they've taken it and sometimes they haven't. Sometimes not taking my opinion has worked out better for them than taking it would have. But in the end, they've always asked my opinion and what my thoughts are. Some guy comes along who they have literally just met two days prior and his opinion is so valuable to them that they act on it immediately even though he gives no reasons. He says, "You need to replace this with a Mac. Mac is better." They go, "Ok. That makes perfect sense. Let's head off to Best Buy and get one." Heck if their reasoning is that their instinct tells them it's a better product, then just say so. Don't go rambling off buzzwords and the age old "it's just better" argument.

 

[Dark Jedi]

You both raise good arguments - but let's remember that this is just text and we miss tone of voice and expressions from A.Non, so you could both, either or neither be right.

I am always right

EarlyMon

 

[EarlyMon]

A.Non, I'm sad that you entirely missed the points I made.

You'll see them when you're ready.

I am always right

EarlyMon

The Ichy and Scratchy Shoowww-ooh-ooh

 

[Dark Jedi]

I have never said Macs were inferior. I just said that someone picking them to replace a working system "because they're better" is a BS reason. If they are in fact better (and they may well be), then I want to know exactly why they are better. What can we do with a projection system on a Mac that we can't do on a PC. What justifies spending $1500 or more on an iMac. What benefit do we get for that extra cost? Is the extra benefit worth the cost?

I've known the people making this decision for 20 years. They've asked my opinion in the past on every IT related decision. Sometimes they've taken it and sometimes they haven't. Sometimes not taking my opinion has worked out better for them than taking it would have. But in the end, they've always asked my opinion and what my thoughts are. Some guy comes along who they have literally just met two days prior and his opinion is so valuable to them that they act on it immediately even though he gives no reasons. He says, "You need to replace this with a Mac. Mac is better." They go, "Ok. That makes perfect sense. Let's head off to Best Buy and get one." Heck if their reasoning is that their instinct tells them it's a better product, then just say so. Don't go rambling off buzzwords and the age old "it's just better" argument.

How old is the current PC system they are using? I saw where you said they was up for a renew for their service contract. and how many years would the new contract be for.

Maybe they saw this was a perfect opportunity to upgrade and try out a mac. Lets face it any computer system thats 5 years old tends to be obsolete and over 5 years archaic. Sometimes its cheaper to get a new computer than to upgrade an older existing one to run new programs.

I know I have heard Apple support is top notch but they can be a bit arrogant.


Plus one thing I like about apple any problem you have be it software or hardware its one phone call. Unlike a PC you have to call either microsoft or the manufacturer of the computer. and they will tell you its the others problem.

 

[A.Nonymous]

How old is the current PC system they are using? I saw where you said they was up for a renew for their service contract. and how many years would the new contract be for.

Maybe they saw this was a perfect opportunity to upgrade and try out a mac. Lets face it any computer system thats 5 years old tends to be obsolete and over 5 years archaic. Sometimes its cheaper to get a new computer than to upgrade an older existing one to run new programs.

I know I have heard Apple support is top notch but they can be a bit arrogant.


Plus one thing I like about apple any problem you have be it software or hardware its one phone call. Unlike a PC you have to call either microsoft or the manufacturer of the computer. and they will tell you its the others problem.

We own the current system and the software on it. The software is a year or two old, but we are currently licensed to update to the new version. Support for that software is expiring. We'll still legally be able to run it and everything, we'll just no longer have support. The actual computer it's running on is about 2 years old. It's a nice computer actually. XP with a dual core processor and 4 gb of RAM. We don't do any video rendering or anything on it. Literally all we do is display slides that have just text on them and maybe a picture or two in the background. That is the only thing the system does and it's perfect for it. We've literally never had a problem with the system. It ran on a Dell computer for 3-4 years before this one, but the Dell blew some caps on the motherboard and stopped working. Hardware issues deep sixed that guy, not software ones. When you have a system that only does one thing and one thing only, it's pretty easy to make it reliable.

 

[EarlyMon]

Some guy comes along who they have literally just met two days prior and his opinion is so valuable to them that they act on it immediately even though he gives no reasons.

That's not about Macs.

That's about the part you don't get and it's staring you in the face.

And I think deep down inside, you somehow must know that.

You cannot substitute IT knowledge to make up for being offensive - that's the part you won't know until you accept the part you must know.

You're avoiding the truth of your own words:

Everyone who disagrees with you at your church is a lemming and you believe that you're justified to act that offensively to people.

I doubt this is the first time - and I suspect that that is the reason they've chosen a computer you don't know.

This really is an opportunity for you, but whether it becomes another horse, water, drink story is entirely up to you.

 

[mikedt]

Well, replacing a hardware mixer and dropping in a computer has tonnes of benefits. Just ask any engineer at a broadcast studio

IMO this is the root cause of everything which is wrong with pop music today.

 

[A.Nonymous]

That's not about Macs.

That's about the part you don't get and it's staring you in the face.

And I think deep down inside, you somehow must know that.

You cannot substitute IT knowledge to make up for being offensive - that's the part you won't know until you accept the part you must know.

You're avoiding the truth of your own words:

Everyone who disagrees with you at your church is a lemming and you believe that you're justified to act that offensively to people.

I doubt this is the first time - and I suspect that that is the reason they've chosen a computer you don't know.

This really is an opportunity for you, but whether it becomes another horse, water, drink story is entirely up to you.

No, I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is a lemming. I think everyone who makes a decision just because everyone else is doing it is a lemming.

 

[EarlyMon]

No, I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is a lemming. I think everyone who makes a decision just because everyone else is doing it is a lemming.

You seem to think that makes a difference - in fact, you seem to think that's relevant.

And you think you're not acting superior to your fellow man in church and you think you're the one that's ok?

And you do that while you clarify for your reasons for being personally offensive to others?

Wow.

Seriously - wow.

You're probably right, I'm probably wrong - this is all about a perfectly fine PC and its software.

Maybe if you just march in and really clarify to them why they're lemmings, they'll just see the light, stop being lemmings and really, really thank you for saving them.

I wish you many good lucks with that. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Dark Jedi]

No, I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is a lemming. I think everyone who makes a decision just because everyone else is doing it is a lemming.

You really need to let it go. Calling people lemmings is really making you look childish. THese are your fellow church members your judging and don't the bible say man cant judge his fellow man?

In the end it doesnt matter why they bought the mac. Point is they bought it and now you have to learn to live with it or find another church.

In the end everyone including you have been a lemming at one time or another.

 

[ElasticNinja]

who would've thought - a heated argument in a religion thread

 

[Dark Jedi]

who would've thought - a heated argument in a religion thread

but is the argument religion related or mac related?

could we have found the first religious apple argument?

 

[LoyalServant]

I used to think Apple made better hardware.
Now it's just off the shelf Wintel hardware of which I have better in the box sitting next to me and paid 75% less.

To each his own.... if they get this stuff from the guy that's been in the church 2 days let him support it and move on.

It's not worth debating an Apple fanboy that's sold the management with their fake artsy personalities.

 

[Dark Jedi]

Who would of thought a fanboy beat a church at it own game.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I used to think Apple made better hardware.
Now it's just off the shelf Wintel hardware of which I have better in the box sitting next to me and paid 75% less.

To each his own.... if they get this stuff from the guy that's been in the church 2 days let him support it and move on.

It's not worth debating an Apple fanboy that's sold the management with their fake artsy personalities.

This guy leaves this weekend. He came in just to install the sound system, got them to install a new projection computer as well and then he'll be off somewhere else. I'm the one who will be pressured to fix this thing if/when it breaks. That's what sucks the most about it. I hate, hate, hate people purchasing systems with no input from me and then not understanding why I can't/won't/have problems supporting said system 6 months later.

 

[EarlyMon]

but is the argument religion related or mac related?

could we have found the first religious apple argument?

Who would of thought a fanboy beat a church at it own game.

Ok, now I'm just going to get the popcorn.

Meanwhile - I wonder how many successful salespeople are fanboys?

I won't buy from a fanboy, even if he knows more about the product I'm interested in.

I want to buy from objective salespeople - because they seem to have the information I'm interested in.

I think the good ones understand your needs, match the product to them and then work with you.

 

[Dark Jedi]

Ok, now I'm just going to get the popcorn.

Meanwhile - I wonder how many successful salespeople are fanboys?

I won't buy from a fanboy, even if he knows more about the product I'm interested in.

I want to buy from objective salespeople - because they seem to have the information I'm interested in.

I think the good ones understand your needs, match the product to them and then work with you.

here already got it for ya.

 

[whs37]

This thread is fascinating. I always thought that church people were kind and mellow. But maybe I am wrong. I only look at this from the ouside because I do not belong to any church. And seeing this discussion, I am glad I don't.

 

[Dark Jedi]

This thread is fascinating. I always thought that church people were kind and mellow. But maybe I am wrong. I only look at this from the ouside because I do not belong to any church. And seeing this discussion, I am glad I don't.

Church people are very passionate and when they believe in something. THey dont mind in letting you know.

 

[A.Nonymous]

This thread is fascinating. I always thought that church people were kind and mellow. But maybe I am wrong. I only look at this from the ouside because I do not belong to any church. And seeing this discussion, I am glad I don't.

Church people are like any other people. Some know their stuff. Some don't. Some are in the middle. Some are extremely passionate. Some don't care. Some are in the middle. Some are leaders and some are followers. Just like any other people.

 

[whs37]

Church people are very passionate and when they believe in something. THey dont mind in letting you know.

Yeah, I made that experience when someone wanted to convince me of the creation theory telling me that Darwin was all wrong. I never have heard more rubbish than that. I told him that he was trying to insult my intelligence.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Yeah, I made that experience when someone wanted to convince me of the creation theory telling me that Darwin was all wrong. I never have heard more rubbish than that. I told him that he was trying to insult my intelligence.

yeah, I've also seen arguments saying oil kills less does less damage then nuclear

People are funny