Just to confirm, heat isn't necessarily a bad thing by itself right? I just used internet and Facebook for about 25 mins and my battery went from 31 to about 38-39 degrees C..is that bad? The voltage was fine during this time of course. I will make sure I keep an eye out on my voltage when I charge it tonight so I can contribute my stats to this thread.
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Help HTC Evo 3D Voltage/Heat Issues
- Thread starter spy2jgc
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- htc evo 3d
Just to clarify, heat alone is not the problem I see happening or am concerned about in my situation... it is the excess voltage AND the resulting heat that concern me. Excessive heat or excessive voltage can eventually damage the battery. The presence of both suggests that the damage is happening - one problem (high voltage) is causing another (heat). You have high voltage but it doesn't currently seem to be causing a problem, and maybe it won't.
Some LiIon battery technologies can protect the battery from over-charging by using intelligent circuitry, case venting, or other technologies that go beyond my understanding. In my case, the high voltage and excess heat (that appears to be a side effect of the high voltage) indicate to me my phone and/or battery doesn't have that technology.... or that it isn't working. The fact the battery puts out over 4200mv -when fully charged and taken fresh off the charger- tells me the high charging voltage is getting through to the battery.
We always want our devices running just warm to cool. Electronics tend to hate heat.
39 degC should not be an issue, but personally, I'd like see to things stay at 37 or lower when possible.
And - it's really important what the source of the heat is.
Heat because you're really working the 8660 processor - to be expected. It will heat everything around it.
Heat because you've talking a REALLY long time (hours in one call) - not the greatest thing. In my personal experience, I've seen where that can be a battery struggling as gets near draining. (And you can get that running the 8660 really hard.) Never a good idea to run your battery all the way down.
Screen heat: Your screen should not be producing heat at all. Don't leave it in sunlight.
Heat while charging - if caused by an overvoltage that's what is bad.
Toasty is a nuisance and isn't helping long-term lifetime. Hot heat is an issue.
I'd be concerned at anything over 104 degF / 40 degC if sustained for longer periods of time for the silicon's sake.
39 degC should not be an issue, but personally, I'd like see to things stay at 37 or lower when possible.
And - it's really important what the source of the heat is.
Heat because you're really working the 8660 processor - to be expected. It will heat everything around it.
Heat because you've talking a REALLY long time (hours in one call) - not the greatest thing. In my personal experience, I've seen where that can be a battery struggling as gets near draining. (And you can get that running the 8660 really hard.) Never a good idea to run your battery all the way down.
Screen heat: Your screen should not be producing heat at all. Don't leave it in sunlight.
Heat while charging - if caused by an overvoltage that's what is bad.
Toasty is a nuisance and isn't helping long-term lifetime. Hot heat is an issue.
I'd be concerned at anything over 104 degF / 40 degC if sustained for longer periods of time for the silicon's sake.
so i have been a bit worried regarding the voltage and heat as well. i just shut off my phone to let it cool down for a bit and take a look at the battery. upon investigating the information labeled on the battery i noticed that mine is rated for 3.8VDC.
I'm not sure if this would affect the peak voltage or not but I do know the standard Li-Ion nominal voltage is about 0.1-0.2VDC lower than what my battery is rated.
As far as temps go mine are ranging from 30.1 C to 38.1 C depending on usage.
I'm not sure if this would affect the peak voltage or not but I do know the standard Li-Ion nominal voltage is about 0.1-0.2VDC lower than what my battery is rated.
As far as temps go mine are ranging from 30.1 C to 38.1 C depending on usage.
Here's a story about thermal runaway, but it's not likely to be a problem with the Evo's relatively small battery:
But it seems that thermal runaway is a very rare occurance. After that, we torture tested many more cells (at least 20), charging at 40C+ and hitting it with 5 volts. Most of the time, the cells just got soft (not puffy) or just wouldn't accept a charge anymore. So, if the Evo 3D likely to explode on your night stand or when it's in your hand? I really, really doubt it. Likely the battery life will suck and the battery will not take as much of a charge. So, while we're logging data, take note on how long it takes your battery to charge, too, as well as temperature data.
Thermal runaway can be a very, very dangerous event. And it can happen even when the phone isn't charging. In my last job, we were building LiIon batteries for various projects I can't talk about in any significant amount of detail due to NDA. But, there was an 'event' one night after we all went home. We charged during the day, because that's when there's the most chance of thermal runaway due to heat, and discharged over night so that it would be ready for the next stress test the next day. When it had it's 'event' the battery had about 75% charge while discharging only 1/4 of it's designed output. The logs also showed it was at a relatively normal temperature until it ramped very quickly and then the logs ended because the temperature probes no longer existed.
But it seems that thermal runaway is a very rare occurance. After that, we torture tested many more cells (at least 20), charging at 40C+ and hitting it with 5 volts. Most of the time, the cells just got soft (not puffy) or just wouldn't accept a charge anymore. So, if the Evo 3D likely to explode on your night stand or when it's in your hand? I really, really doubt it. Likely the battery life will suck and the battery will not take as much of a charge. So, while we're logging data, take note on how long it takes your battery to charge, too, as well as temperature data.
Tonight's experiment:
Voltage rose to 4350 mV while charging via wall socket, but temp never went above 92F.
After taking the phone off the charger, I plugged it into my laptop and booted up PDAnet. I've now been websurfing via the phone for nearly an hour. Voltage is now 4322 mV, temp has risen slightly to 94.1F.
Voltage rose to 4350 mV while charging via wall socket, but temp never went above 92F.
After taking the phone off the charger, I plugged it into my laptop and booted up PDAnet. I've now been websurfing via the phone for nearly an hour. Voltage is now 4322 mV, temp has risen slightly to 94.1F.
ive got the 3D on tap. i always leave it charged up as much as possible.
its a balmy 90.3 degrees F @ 4342mV AC plugged. its 100% charged and shows out of the 1700mAh capacity, 1683 is at capacity.
i had a spike up to 109.0 degrees F for a few ticks then settled back to 93.8 and hovered around until near full then dropped to where it is now..
the current drain is 87mA. the screen is the biggest usage for me. ill perhaps post more numbers when its off the tap tomorrow.
these little apps are slick...
its a balmy 90.3 degrees F @ 4342mV AC plugged. its 100% charged and shows out of the 1700mAh capacity, 1683 is at capacity.
i had a spike up to 109.0 degrees F for a few ticks then settled back to 93.8 and hovered around until near full then dropped to where it is now..
the current drain is 87mA. the screen is the biggest usage for me. ill perhaps post more numbers when its off the tap tomorrow.
these little apps are slick...
collected some data tonight for experimentation purposes using my newly downloaded Elixir app. i plugged my phone in at 12:45 am at 25%, and it hit 99% around 2:40 am.
12:45 25% 28.0degC 3677mV (plugged in)
1:00 38% 31.6degC 4018mV
1:15 51% 32.9degC 4075mV
1:30 64% 33.3degC 4152mV
1:45 76% 33.1degC 4262mV
2:00 87% 32.2degC 4342mV
2:15 94% 30.6degC 4344mV
2:30 97% 29.6degC 4344mV
2:35 98% 29.5degC 4344mV
2:40 99% 29.4degC 4344mV (unplugged)
2:45 99% 29.6degC 4300mV
2:50 99% 28.9degC 4247mV
2:55 99% 28.3degC 4242mV
3:00 99% 28.0degC 4238mV
so the phone charged from 25% to 99% in roughly 2 hours. is that normal? it seems a little quick to me, but i'm used to my old phone so i could be wrong.
also, it seems that my phone, too, reaches voltages it shouldn't while charging, but as the data shows, it has a very mild effect on the temperature..in fact, as the voltage approaches 4344mV, the temperature actually begins DECREASING..strange
can any expert look at this data and tell me if there's cause for worry about my phone? from what i can see it looks OK, besides the fact that the voltage exceeds 4200mV, but it doesn't make my phone hot which i think is a good sign, plus it seems like the voltage drops back close to normal range quickly after removing the phone from the charger.
anyway, post your thoughts.
12:45 25% 28.0degC 3677mV (plugged in)
1:00 38% 31.6degC 4018mV
1:15 51% 32.9degC 4075mV
1:30 64% 33.3degC 4152mV
1:45 76% 33.1degC 4262mV
2:00 87% 32.2degC 4342mV
2:15 94% 30.6degC 4344mV
2:30 97% 29.6degC 4344mV
2:35 98% 29.5degC 4344mV
2:40 99% 29.4degC 4344mV (unplugged)
2:45 99% 29.6degC 4300mV
2:50 99% 28.9degC 4247mV
2:55 99% 28.3degC 4242mV
3:00 99% 28.0degC 4238mV
so the phone charged from 25% to 99% in roughly 2 hours. is that normal? it seems a little quick to me, but i'm used to my old phone so i could be wrong.
also, it seems that my phone, too, reaches voltages it shouldn't while charging, but as the data shows, it has a very mild effect on the temperature..in fact, as the voltage approaches 4344mV, the temperature actually begins DECREASING..strange
can any expert look at this data and tell me if there's cause for worry about my phone? from what i can see it looks OK, besides the fact that the voltage exceeds 4200mV, but it doesn't make my phone hot which i think is a good sign, plus it seems like the voltage drops back close to normal range quickly after removing the phone from the charger.
anyway, post your thoughts.
I'm not expert here, but I really wonder how accurate the voltage sensor truly is.
Without current readings, I can only guess by the jumps in percentage that the temperature drops were normal. Your battery seemed to pull less and less current (percentages were closer together) as it got to the top. Which is normal, from what I remember of how my LiIon batteries charged. Current is the usual culprit behind heat. One of the way I seek out shorts on electronics is by a 'touch test'. Think there's a short in a circuit? Is any component hotter than any other? Also, if you put more current through it, something will pop (and smoke...and stink...melting plastic = bad).
This is why I've switched from CurrentWidget to Battery Monitor Widget. It just has so much more to offer (and I plan on buying the full version some time today because the author deserves the money). The temperature, voltage, and current readings are invaluable.
Edit:
Lesson learned: Do NOT stick meter leads into your phone's battery compartment while the phone is operating. The meter loading effect shuts down the phone. My phone's voltmeter reads 4.253 (after a boot up) and the voltmeter on my desk read the battery at 4.300,5 (before bootup). I would say that the phone's voltmeter is reading the battery within an acceptable range.
Second edit:
Like most have posted here, USB charging is a slower charge (nearly half as fast as a wall charger, I estimate), and, as a result, temperatures will not rise nearly as high. Here's some of my data:
------------------ Begin USB charging -------------------
2011/07/06|10:46:32 PM|271mA|13%|3723mV|33.9
Ok, I don't understand this, especially after the post by jerofld but I just charged my 3vo using my laptop for the 1st time, and it got hotter than it has using the wall charger. Using the wall charger it has gone up to 94.1 degrees and 4357mV (which seems to be the max for my phone) and charging using the supplied cable and my laptop caused the phone to go up to 97.3 degrees and 4357mV. I realize the difference in temperature is only 3.2 degrees but isn't it odd that it got hotter charging via USB/laptop than it does using the wall charger? By the way, it was 65% charged when I began charging it using the laptop. It reached its highest temperature when it was 99% charged.
Judging by what I've read on here, it sounds like these temps are not harmful, however please correct me if I'm wrong. I was wondering if anyone else has had higher temps from charging via USB compared to the wall charger and is this normal?
Also, usually when I charge it using the wall charger the temp drops quickly; its usually below 90 degrees before I even unplug it. It spends most of its time between 82 & 89 degrees. However, this time it was 93.3 when I unplugged it from the laptop and its been staying between 93.9 & 96.9 since then. I don't get it. Before I charged it using the laptop, it had never even reached this temp.
Edit: I also want to add that my battery is definitely discharging faster than it usually does when I charge it using the wall charger. It has gone down 15% in one hour while not really using it compared to normally going down just 4-5% in one hour while using WiFi and looking at web pages.
Judging by what I've read on here, it sounds like these temps are not harmful, however please correct me if I'm wrong. I was wondering if anyone else has had higher temps from charging via USB compared to the wall charger and is this normal?
Also, usually when I charge it using the wall charger the temp drops quickly; its usually below 90 degrees before I even unplug it. It spends most of its time between 82 & 89 degrees. However, this time it was 93.3 when I unplugged it from the laptop and its been staying between 93.9 & 96.9 since then. I don't get it. Before I charged it using the laptop, it had never even reached this temp.
Edit: I also want to add that my battery is definitely discharging faster than it usually does when I charge it using the wall charger. It has gone down 15% in one hour while not really using it compared to normally going down just 4-5% in one hour while using WiFi and looking at web pages.
novox77
Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
Put your phone on airplane mode to eliminate some variables. I would agree that 3 degrees F is insignificant. 3 degrees C would be a little more significant, but again, it would be nice to know that it wasn't by chance that the phone was working a little harder trying to find a cell signal while it was at the location where you USB-charged.
Temp drops after charging can be misleading. You really need to know when the charging is shut off to know when to expect the temp drop. Because wall charging is faster, it's likely that more time passed with the phone not charging by the time you unplugged it, which means it had some extra time to cool.
I've also noticed that my battery lasts a lot longer when charged slower. I don't understand the mechanism that causes this, but it is easily reproducible.
blingeorkl
Member
Wall charging my phone: Green light @ 4374 mV - 34.7 C (room temp 29.5 C).
I'm noticing that most people who have reported see their charging voltage in the high 4300s...
I'm noticing that most people who have reported see their charging voltage in the high 4300s...
While looking for accessories for my 3vo, I found a wall travel charger that says this under Features:
"Built in IC Chip circuit to control the amount of power applied to the battery according to battery level and temperature.
State of the art Intelligent Chip circuit prevents overcharging and switch to stand by mode when the battery is fully charger."
HTC EVO 3D Wall Travel Charger
I was wondering if this charger would be of any help to people who are having this excessive voltage/overheating issue... or is this nothing special?
"Built in IC Chip circuit to control the amount of power applied to the battery according to battery level and temperature.
State of the art Intelligent Chip circuit prevents overcharging and switch to stand by mode when the battery is fully charger."
HTC EVO 3D Wall Travel Charger
I was wondering if this charger would be of any help to people who are having this excessive voltage/overheating issue... or is this nothing special?
andersonphoto
Lurker
USB charging right now...
Battery is at 99%
4.346 volts
83.8F
Battery is at 99%
4.346 volts
83.8F
terekkincaid
Newbie
I'm going to jump in with a couple of my observations.
My phone, like everyone else's, gets to ~4.33V at the end of charging. Is there anyone reading this who has a phone that *doesn't* get to 4.33V? However, like most folks again, my temperature stayed normal.
Here are my stats from last night (I was doing some gaming with the 4G radio on to start - that's why it was at 37C):
2011/07/07|12:41:17 AM|101mA|99%|4344mV|37.1
My phone, like everyone else's, gets to ~4.33V at the end of charging. Is there anyone reading this who has a phone that *doesn't* get to 4.33V? However, like most folks again, my temperature stayed normal.
Here are my stats from last night (I was doing some gaming with the 4G radio on to start - that's why it was at 37C):
2011/07/07|12:41:17 AM|101mA|99%|4344mV|37.1
LBPHeretic
Android Expert
I think we may be seeing a lot of variability on the charging temperatures because people are most likely charging their handsets in various places that have different ambient temperatures. For example, I am at work and it is 72
terekkincaid
Newbie
Haha, wow, want to murder your battery and overheat it at the same time? I was trying to empty out my battery for testing, and decided to leave on 4G and stream some internet radio. That did an Ok, job. Then, I switched on the 3D camera and just let it sit with the screen on (had to refresh it every couple of minutes by tapping it). It blew through 35% of my battery in about 15 min and got it up to 43C! Between powering 2 cameras and keeping that 3D screen going (full brightness), it really ate through the power. The question is, why did it get so hot doing that?
there is SOOOO much data and technical info being thrown about its causing panic and confusion. we all need to step back and breathe...
these new programs monitor all sorts of stuff we dont normally think about during the course of a day. now that we see this stuff and if one adds in lack of education many of us here have, it just causes confusion.
FACT: the phone WILL get HOT when charging. the phone should not feel like the sun when its charging. if it is, something is wrong. /FACT
lets not put TOO much faith in the numbers these apps spit out. use your judgement.. you know if a phone is too hot to the touch that its not normal.. so the app says its 101 degrees F charging.. ok.. no big deal. an earlier post mentioned that current drives heat so as the pack nears full capacity, less area for the current to move and the temps drop.
the battery cells are small so any movement in current will generate heat and that heat has no where really to go so it heats up the pack and then the handset. this handset is tiny so the heat has no where to go after it leaves the battery pack.
right now the evo 3d im using is charging on AC at 100.2 degrees. the air around it is perhaps 77 ish. the phone is barely warm. i have every radio and antenna on and the screen is on which also generates heat and ADDs to the overall temp.
so please all lets just relax on the "hey are my numbers ok..." questions.. use your judgement first. sometimes ignorance is bliss...
these new programs monitor all sorts of stuff we dont normally think about during the course of a day. now that we see this stuff and if one adds in lack of education many of us here have, it just causes confusion.
FACT: the phone WILL get HOT when charging. the phone should not feel like the sun when its charging. if it is, something is wrong. /FACT
lets not put TOO much faith in the numbers these apps spit out. use your judgement.. you know if a phone is too hot to the touch that its not normal.. so the app says its 101 degrees F charging.. ok.. no big deal. an earlier post mentioned that current drives heat so as the pack nears full capacity, less area for the current to move and the temps drop.
the battery cells are small so any movement in current will generate heat and that heat has no where really to go so it heats up the pack and then the handset. this handset is tiny so the heat has no where to go after it leaves the battery pack.
right now the evo 3d im using is charging on AC at 100.2 degrees. the air around it is perhaps 77 ish. the phone is barely warm. i have every radio and antenna on and the screen is on which also generates heat and ADDs to the overall temp.
so please all lets just relax on the "hey are my numbers ok..." questions.. use your judgement first. sometimes ignorance is bliss...
LBPHeretic
Android Expert
A rapid drainage of your battery will always result in a lot of heat generation. It does not matter the means in which it was accomplished.
It also has to do with the fact that running those 3D cameras constantly probably pegs the CPU really high along with the 4G usage. All of that heat generated from that heavy usage has to go somewhere, so that is why you feel it.
trek, the reason your handset was warm was due to the current moving thru the pack. its normal given the circumstances you had the handset in...
JimKnuckles
Android Enthusiast
Mine is charging at 4.38 volts right now.