I believe that marijuana should be legal (discussion)

[lordofthereef]

We're talking about pot. You and some others would rather smoke pot and change your mindset on a regular basis rather than just living normally. What does that say? Give the right answer this time.

Seems we have gotten started off on the wrong foot. First of all, I have stated MANY times in this thread that I never have, nor ever plan to, use marijuana. That said, stating that a marijuana user doesn't live his/her live normally is a gross overstatement. I made the comparison about rx drugs and alcohol because the vast majority of those that use either susbtance aren't drunk/high the majority of the time. It's nice to sit back, relax, and enjoy a beer or two. I imagine those that enjoy marijuana would say the same thing. Nobody is advocating being so stoned out of your mind that you are in a life-altered state.

 

[Tommy78]

Sorry about that, somehow I got the idea that you did smoke. What I'm trying to get at is for someone who smokes pot to admit that their life is better while they're smoking (that seems to be the case anyway). If their life is better while smoking, that means that their "normal" life, or life while not smoking is not all that great. If your life is not all that great without getting high, maybe you should work on your real problems and not avoid things by getting high on a daily basis. It's just common sense, but it's so much easier to just forget about it for a while and smoke instead. If people would be honest with themselves I think they would agree.

 

[lordofthereef]

What I'm trying to get at is for someone who smokes pot to admit that their life is better while they're smoking (that seems to be the case anyway). If their life is better while smoking, that means that their "normal" life, or life while not smoking is not all that great.

I am not getting that vibe from anyone in this thread. I am sure it happens, but I doubt that it is the norm. Same thing with alcohol (which I do enjoy in moderation). I KNOW there are people that think their life is better drunk too, but I am not about to make that statement about everyone that enjoys the occasional drink.

 

[Tommy78]

I think you might be missing the point. There is no special vibe to get, just the fact that it's being used is enough. It's an escape to a mindset with less worries and pain. People want to feel good and be happy and it seems in this world a person needs to be medicated for that to happen. A perfectly happy and content person is not going to start smoking pot, that person is already in a good place.

 

[lordofthereef]

I think you might be missing the point. There is no special vibe to get, just the fact that it's being used is enough. It's an escape to a mindset with less worries and pain. People want to feel good and be happy and it seems in this world a person needs to be medicated for that to happen. A perfectly happy and content person is not going to start smoking pot, that person is already in a good place.

You have your opinions, others have theirs. I am not willing to believe that all pot smoker's lives are so miserable that they are looking for escape. Not for a minute.

 

[Member243850]

Well, when Wellfare Joe is being treated for lung cancer on my dime (tax payer $$), I have a big problem with it. That is equally true for any substance.

Hmm

I think from all the taxes and such from taxing Cannabis you could solve this problem pretty easily.

If everybody is being taxed that smokes weed the tax money could easily slove the health problem issues.

You use the tax money to pay for the health problems. Or just better yet remove the pot smokers from Obama Health Care. Or any health care for that matter.

That is what I think at least. Could be wrong though lol.

Just for everyone's interests I don't believe smoking cannabis is smart but I don't believe abusing peoples rights is actually that much betetr either.

It is an abuse of human rights to stop someone doing something they really want to do for example smoking weed.

I lost a friend to drugs but in the end it was his choice and his alone I understand that now.

I had no right to tell my friend what to do with his life.

It is sad but true.

 

[lordofthereef]

Those are good ideas, but there are some problems.

If we remove those from healthcare that use marijuana, there would be some sort of required drug test before being insured. I am not sure everyone would be ok with that, although I certainly would be. There is also the issue of how long your healthcare is voided. if I took a puff when I was 16, is it voided for life? What if I have medical issues clearly not related to marijuana use?

I think most people would rather the tax money go to the government, especially how we are currently struggling (speaking specifically about USA here). I am pretty sure tobacco and alcohol taxes don't go towards health care funds in any way. If we were to give cannabis the exception, tobacco and alcohol taxes would all of the sudden be under strict scrutiny.

As for human rights, that is a touchy subject. I agree a person shouldn't be restricted from what he/she wants to do so long as it doesn't adversely interfere with or harm the life of any third party. This is what we need to define. Will legalizing cannabis harm the "bystander". Many (including myself) think not, however this question has to be answered with relative certainty before nationwide legalization can commence.

 

[gallandof]

I think you might be missing the point. There is no special vibe to get, just the fact that it's being used is enough. It's an escape to a mindset with less worries and pain. People want to feel good and be happy and it seems in this world a person needs to be medicated for that to happen. A perfectly happy and content person is not going to start smoking pot, that person is already in a good place.

the main reasons I used to smoke were;

more appreciation to things i like. (huge fan of primus was an even larger fan while high)

more appreciation for food (i have no appetite 99%[i only eat like half a meal a day] of the time and severe acid reflux [main reason i want it legalized so i can get a rpescription without worrying about work])

physical activities felt better, going for jogs were much more enjoyable

I never smoked to escape from my pains or worries, I smoked to enjoy the things i already loved. I'm not saying everyone is like that but i know most of my friends are the same way and im sure a lot of others are. the more i think about it the less and less people i know who got/get high to excape negatives.

 

[Member243850]

Those are good ideas, but there are some problems.

If we remove those from healthcare that use marijuana, there would be some sort of required drug test before being insured. I am not sure everyone would be ok with that, although I certainly would be. There is also the issue of how long your healthcare is voided. if I took a puff when I was 16, is it voided for life? What if I have medical issues clearly not related to marijuana use?

I think most people would rather the tax money go to the government, especially how we are currently struggling (speaking specifically about USA here). I am pretty sure tobacco and alcohol taxes don't go towards health care funds in any way. If we were to give cannabis the exception, tobacco and alcohol taxes would all of the sudden be under strict scrutiny.

As for human rights, that is a touchy subject. I agree a person shouldn't be restricted from what he/she wants to do so long as it doesn't adversely interfere with or harm the life of any third party. This is what we need to define. Will legalizing cannabis harm the "bystander". Many (including myself) think not, however this question has to be answered with relative certainty before nationwide legalization can commence.

Also very good points dude

Good

Very good points actually,

Hmm but about the Human Rights being a touchy subject. Hmm I don;t think it is that touchy.

I could easily be missing something but I am not too sure it is that touchy.

If somebody wants to smoke then let them. As long as they do it responsibly and don't hurt any body else I have no issues with it at all.

But it is wrong to make it illegal. You should not stop people doing what they want to do in life it is against human rights.

You can have special zones where people can get smashed / stoned out of there minds but far away from the rest of society so no harm is done to others and they can be monitored amd watched.

But banning it is a bit extreme.

 

[lordofthereef]

Perhaps "touchy" is not the best word. What I was trying to get across is that we need to ensure that this drug use doesn't adversely effect others. Special zones might be ok, but I wouldn't go as far as allowing people to be "smashed out of their minds" since that encroaches on the safety/comfort of others. Perhaps we could have something like they do at amusements parks, restaurants, etc. One cannot just pull out their weed and smoke anywhere, and they must be purchase it at a vendor (as opposed to bring it with you like cigarettes), and the "bar tender" can cut you off once you have clearly had enough. At the end of the day, the point is that we need to protect those who clearly want nothing do with the MJ as well.

 

[KingOfGreen]

Of course you have people who are in a dark place and use to get away, but people do the same with alcohol. But as has been said a few times just now.

Even when in my area, arizona the possesion of ANY amount is a felony. While i was in highschool there was at least a few people in EVERY class, incuding my honors math classes where i could get weed from. making it legal would actually make it LESS available to those underage. And no more or less available to those who are of age.

For me whether its a movie, goin to the pool, swimmin at the lake or just kickin it at a friends house or maybe a party. If im not drivin, if im not resposible for anyone else. Having a couple beers and smokin some make the time better, its a social experience.

Yeah if i had a bad day or am stressin, ill smoke a bowl but whats wrong with that! Its not how i intend on solving my problems, not me running away. Its me taking myself down a notch cuz i over stress things or overreact ive always had a short fuse. To say that im depressed and weed is the only way im happy or can have a good time is like saying people who drink cant have fun unless drunk.


And tommy78 no disrespect but you seem like one of those straight edge folks who hears marijuana and thinks DRUGSSS, like you dont see a line between pot and heroin. Maybe you do, my point is that to say no happy person in a good place will smoke is ridiculous, would you say the same about alcohol?? Cuz honetsly i dont see much difference between going out with friends a smokin some herb or havin a few beers. I know plenty of happy folks with good lives that do one or the other even both.

 

[tommy_ed]

Your first part is quite humorous because you admit there is a problem with pot, all the while pushing for legalization because one bad thing is not as bad as another bad thing.

what's also humorous is how you did almost the exact same thing earlier in the thread, when you claimed the government shouldn't be able to tell you what to do in the privacy of your own home, all while opposing the exact same argument.

Do you suppose if a compound were derived from MJ/THC and it was a simple pill that did what MJ (supposedly) does for cancer sufferers, and MJ were banned totally, would people still push for legamlized medical MJ?

I bet yes, they would raise hell because they want to get high and medical MJ is one foot in the door.

I agree sure they would, because a lot of people don't want it legalized for medicinal reasons. for instance, my main argument is this: it doesn't matter if it's healthy or not, i should be able to do what i want to my own body as long as it's not infringing on others. Sitting on my couch enjoying a smoke after work hurts NO ONE.

This is not directed at anyone in particular.

Pot is for depressed dopes, don't be a dope. Why would a person want to live their life in a drug induced coma-cloud acting like a moron all day? Get a life instead.

really? at what age did you finally leave the amish community?

Currently, you have the right to demand a test if the officer believes you are impaired. You MUST have the ability to contest what the officer says. What if his/her judgement is poor?

now this statement i can actually agree with you, almost.

i see two points here - the whole point of a sobriety test is to perform test that will assess whether you are coherent enough to get behind the wheel. if these tests don't accomplish that, then they are pointless. If you can pass a sobriety test, you can drive.

on the other hand, i agree with you - who's to say a police officer can't just claim you're not fit to drive. as you said, there needs to be a way to contest the officer's judgement.

 

[lordofthereef]

Honestly, I am not sure that same sobriety tests that we currently have are enough to test whether a person under the influence of marijuana is fit to drive. I could be wrong, I only go with what I have seen, as I have experienced none of it, but isn't a stoned person's reaction different from a drunk person's? I feel like sobriety tests are designed first and foremost around alcohol use. Said tests are probably going to fall short with any other substance.

 

[Tommy78]

i should be able to do what i want to my own body as long as it's not infringing on others. Sitting on my couch enjoying a smoke after work hurts NO ONE.

Yes, you should be able to, I totally agree. I can totally understand wanting to escape your life, having to go to work everyday to a place you cannot stand and (place other life problems here). I'm sure the pot helps you cope with that a lot easier.

 

[KingOfGreen]

Yes, you should be able to, I totally agree. I can totally understand wanting to escape your life, having to go to work everyday to a place you cannot stand and (place other life problems here). I'm sure the pot helps you cope with that a lot easier.

There you go again. Talkin like anyone who smokes is depressed, unable to cope with life, antisocial and weed is the only thing gettin them by, it isnt like that bro! You are closed minded and obviously have MAJOR prejudice for some reason. I can understand all the other VALID point against legalization. But you are being ignorant and irrational. Like i said, you been watchin too many above the influence commercials.

I have a cousin who just graduated nursing school and got her license. She smokes once in a blue moon. Her sister has her masters and her husband a phd. I go over there, smoke a bit drink a few beers and chill. Or did you catch the guy in here getting his phd in chemistry (something). All of us are happy. Nobodys life is without stress but thats not WHY we smoke. You crazy, you sound like you just walked out the 1930's(20's?) movie "reefer madness"

So by your definition anyone who drinks a few beers after work or goes out and drinks at a club bar or just home with friends. Is depressed and unable to cope??

Honestly, I am not sure that same sobriety tests that we currently have are enough to test whether a person under the influence of marijuana is fit to drive. I could be wrong, I only go with what I have seen, as I have experienced none of it, but isn't a stoned person's reaction different from a drunk person's? I feel like sobriety tests are designed first and foremost around alcohol use. Said tests are probably going to fall short with any other substance.

I agree here, i mean the field sobriety are aimed towards alcohol. But for the most part the officer can still test your cognitive abilty, reflexes and balance pretty well. All of which i can tell you do go south with weed as well, just not in the same way. Although ive never been pulled over under the influence i have been there and the officer caught on pretty quick and in other experiences in my own dealings with the law the officers have been able to tell when i was high. There has to be some difference in metabolized THC and the stuff just hangin out. But thats beyond me.

 

[Tommy78]

So by your definition anyone who drinks a few beers after work or goes out and drinks at a club bar or just home with friends. Is depressed and unable to cope??

Why do people go to a bar to drink alcohol? To relax, unwind and to free their mind of the days bullshit and feel good. It's the same concept as pot. Would these same people be able to go to a bar, relax and unwind without a mind altering substance? I think not. People want to not think about their problems and it cannot be done without some help. I'm not pointing the finger at these people saying that they're horrible, just that it's a fact. I'm surprised no one can admit this.

 

[lordofthereef]

Why do people go to a bar to drink alcohol? To relax, unwind and to free their mind of the days bullshit and feel good. It's the same concept as pot. Would these same people be able to go to a bar, relax and unwind without a mind altering substance? I think not. People want to not think about their problems and it cannot be done without some help. I'm not pointing the finger at these people saying that they're horrible, just that it's a fact. I'm surprised no one can admit this.

Sure. On days I get to be the designated driver I enjoy virgin margaritas. I have a great time! I don't know that myself, or any of my friends, have ever consumed so much alcohol at the bar that our minds were all that altered. Some people/cultures actually consider the bar a social experiences rather than a chemically mind-altering one.

 

[tommy_ed]

Why do people go to a bar to drink alcohol? To relax, unwind and to free their mind of the days bullshit and feel good. It's the same concept as pot. Would these same people be able to go to a bar, relax and unwind without a mind altering substance? I think not. People want to not think about their problems and it cannot be done without some help. I'm not pointing the finger at these people saying that they're horrible, just that it's a fact. I'm surprised no one can admit this.

people like the euphoric and relaxing effects of alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana. to say the billions of people who use those substances are all depressed or trying to cope with something is absolutely absurd!

 

[Adauth]

It's going to happen eventually. Period.

 

[lordofthereef]

It's going to happen eventually. Period.

Come on. Let;s not let this be the last word in the marijuana legalization discussion!

 

[Aggie12]

Come on. Let;s not let this be the last word in the marijuana legalization discussion!

ok. I won't let that happen 0.o This thread is relevant to my interests at this point in time.

 

[Frisco]

ok. I won't let that happen 0.o This thread is relevant to my interests at this point in time.

Mine, too.

I always find it curious that some advocates of legalization of pot remind us that alcohol is worse and yet it is legal, therefor pot should be legal.

Not a good argument, imo.

I'm in favor of it becoming legal for the simple reason that, as a substance, it is woven through the fabric of most societies in the world, similar to alcohol, and also because it probably needs to be regulated in a similar fashion as alcohol.

Many terrible things are "woven through the fabric of most societies," violent crime, etc, but those things are obvious to all as being destructive.

 

[nlsme]

Mine, too.

I always find it curious that some advocates of legalization of pot remind us that alcohol is worse and yet it is legal, therefor pot should be legal.

Not a good argument, imo.

I'm in favor of it becoming legal for the simple reason that, as a substance, it is woven through the fabric of most societies in the world, similar to alcohol, and also because it probably needs to be regulated in a similar fashion as alcohol.

Many terrible things are "woven through the fabric of most societies," violent crime, etc, but those things are obvious to all as being destructive.

I dont think the arguement is that pot should be legal because alcohol is legal while being worse. I think that arguement is, pot shouldnt be illegal, while a worse substance is legal. As in, there is no reason to make alcohol illegal, what is the reason for pot being so? There isnt a good reason, so it shouldnt be. I just find it funny that the staunchest conservative here, that advocates government being out of personal lives, has the audacity to say its okay here.

 

[jamor]

I don't believe activists actually believe that pot should be legal just because alcohol is. It is more a defense mechanism argument against the alcoholics who are always trying to slam marijuana for being very hazardous when in reality alcohol is more dangerous and hazardous to your health (and other peoples, i.e. violence, bad judgement) especially in high quantities.

 

[Frisco]

I dont think the arguement is that pot should be legal because alcohol is legal while being worse. I think that arguement is, pot shouldnt be illegal, while a worse substance is legal. As in, there is no reason to make alcohol illegal, what is the reason for pot being so? There isnt a good reason, so it shouldnt be. I just find it funny that the staunchest conservative here, that advocates government being out of personal lives, has the audacity to say its okay here.

The angle I've seen put forth about the alcohol/pot comparison seems to be more in the background.. the angles you mention are obvious, they are right out there. But a twist in logic is what I notice as those conversations continue along to a point of "alcohol is worse, but legal.. why can't pot be legal if alcohol is?" I see no productive reason to compare them in that manner.

But to re-highlight my own views about legalization of pot, I think there are several advantages.. not the least of which is putting a dent in the drug cartel's pot income and land grabbing in Mexico and some other Central American countries (of course they'll still have their cocoa fields, but one less product from them is a good thing).

Personal cultivation should probably be handled in a similar legal fashion as is home brewing beer, etc: certain limitations on quantity and distribution, and no sales at all outside of licensed outlets.