copestag
Android Expert
so what youre saying is that MJ is more addictive than alchohol
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I believe that marijuana should be legal (discussion)
- Thread starter bryce13950
- Start date
so what youre saying is that MJ is more addictive than alchohol
tommy_ed
Android Expert
just as most marijuana users don't become addicted.
tommy_ed
Android Expert
i think it's more along the lines that they're both about the same when it comes to users who become addicted.
both are still wayyyyy below the percentage of caffeine and nicotine which both are also considered to be bad for your health in most scenarios
lordofthereef
Android Expert
I think those numbers are certainly close enough to one another to not be able come up with that definitive conclusion. I would say that as close as they are, they are about the same. Certainly not "far more addictive" as has been claimed.
Isthmus
Android Expert
Ok so lets say Marijuana is legal. What do you do when someone is driving while stoned?
how do you determine they are stoned?
what standard should be used to determine a legal measure of what should be considered high and not?
should marijuana be regulated in the manner cigarrettes are?
should pot smokers be required to pay higher insurance rates (car, home and health)?
Should marijuana be legal provided it is processed into products and not sold as a stimulant?
What should the penalty be for minors getting stoned or adults selling or providing to minors?
should home grown be allowed?
My point is that there is not an easy answer and there are a lot of issues related to legalizing marijuana, and I really don't think that governments, law enforcement and much of the population really care to deal with the issue and prefer to leave it illegal.
how do you determine they are stoned?
what standard should be used to determine a legal measure of what should be considered high and not?
should marijuana be regulated in the manner cigarrettes are?
should pot smokers be required to pay higher insurance rates (car, home and health)?
Should marijuana be legal provided it is processed into products and not sold as a stimulant?
What should the penalty be for minors getting stoned or adults selling or providing to minors?
should home grown be allowed?
My point is that there is not an easy answer and there are a lot of issues related to legalizing marijuana, and I really don't think that governments, law enforcement and much of the population really care to deal with the issue and prefer to leave it illegal.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Yes, but I'd like cigarettes to be regulated even more
I would like to see a stepped punishment system. A 12 year old getting stoned is far worse than a 17 year old doing the same IMO
How is my comparison off? People die from their alcohol withdrawal. Nobody has EVER died from pot withdrawal. Why? Because pot is not physically addictive. Yet alcohol is. To the point that stopping drinking CAN kill you.
How is pot "highly addictive".? It is NOT physically addictive at all.
lordofthereef
Android Expert
My personal feelings/answers in bold.
tommy_ed
Android Expert
how do you propose testing for over use of prescription pills in the field? or driving without enough sleep? I'm sure a simple field sobriety test would be able of determining whether someone is sober enough to be driving
KingOfGreen
Android Expert
seems to me like most of the people here are with me on this, i believe it should be legalized for many of the same reasons Ive already seen posted. it ultimately comes down to 2 things we would need to accomplish by legalizing it.
one thing i thought was really funny was the whole Mexico situation. i live in Arizona so the boarder and such is a huge deal here. they way i see it is that its one less thing coming across from Mexico. and it wont cost any man hours, money or human life to make this happen. will it stop the other drugs and crime, definitely not. but nobody would stay buying the dirty Mexican when there will be much better locally grown stuff readily available.
for those who think that legalizing it will cause a boom in the number of users. that's just paranoia. people aren't going to start blazin because its legal now. people dont turn 21 and start drinking when they had never considered it before because its legal for them now. i know plenty of people who don't smoke weed but kick it with potheads, they don't get contact (2nd hand) highs. just like anything else you like it or you don't. i also don't know anyone who doesn't smoke just because its illegal. believe me, ANY kid in high school can get weed whenever he/she wants. legalizing it isn't going to make it any more available to them.
weed inst chemically addictive like nicotine and alcohol, its habitual. no withdraws. no chemical dependency. no real weed "addiction" just a habit. it does have the potential to create a issue when it takes priority over other aspects of a persons life. but so does shopping, sex, gambling, alcohol, and many other things you can become addicted to and use to ruin your life.
the violence around weed has NOTHING to do with being high or anything like that, its about the MONEY. its because its illegal that people rob people for weed because you CANT call the cops an report it. you make it legal and eventually it will be no more worth stealing than beer and alcohol because there's no black market for it.
OBVIOUSLY it will still be illegal to drive while you are high. people who use the "impaired driver" as a stand against it is ignorant. Never will it be ok to drive under the influence of ANYTHING whether its Alcohol, weed, cough syrup, pain meds or ANYTHING ELSE. and as with everything else it will be up to the officer to decide whether you are impaired or not.
The people who would grow it at home would be few and far between. most people don't have the time, knowledge, and other resources to do it as well as the the big guys who would be selling to "coffee shops" (i hope is what they are come to called) and for the ones who did? this would only further to decrease its value outside of the "legal sources"
do you have any idea the kind of profit margin there is with weed??? if the government taxed it and regulated it they could make tons in taxes off the growers, shops, other associated merchandise. a good friend of mine has a dad who works with farmers and buys and sells farmed goods, he doesn't smoke weed, never has and never will. but he wants it to be legalized because he sees no hard and knows the kind of profit there is in it if done right.
people don't do crazy shit because they have been getting high. when have you ever heard of a dad who smokes up and abuses his wife and kids?? now how many alcoholics do just that? how many people have woken up and said :i was soo stoned last night, i cant believe i hooked up with/ did this/ did that......" noo people get drunk and do stupid shit all the time.
weed isn't a "gateway" drug because you smoke a few times and go "damn i wanna try it all" it puts you in touch with the people selling these other drugs and have them trying to make money off you on those as well. you wouldn't walk into a weed shop and be asked if you want coke/ecstasy or anything else like that. but that's how drug dealers handle it.
where i live the possession of ANY amount of marijuana is a FELONY, yet all the time i see police take someones herb and let them walk. i was going to cali with a few friends a couple years ago, got pulled over smokin and the the police took our shit, didn't press charges and waited for the driver to pass a sobriety test to let us go. he said "weed isnt a big deal anymore, its ognne be legal everywhere in 5-10 years. just dont do it if youre driving" another time i was pulled over for a rolling stop and wide turn, and my car was STANKY the cop searched didnt find anything and said "you are either really lucky or have a really good hiding spot, make sure you turn into the closest lane and you have a good night." i obviously wasn't intoxicated and he didn't seem too interested in finding my shit, no guns, weapons in the car. he very well could have called a dog. we actually had this very conversation while we waited on another officer. i know SOOO many stories of police letting weed smokers walk. even when here ITS A FELONY, don't ever hear of them doing the same with ANY other drugs. even most police have a relaxed attitude towards marijuana. and i am speaking from my own experience and there had been plenty in my teen years,
there are some people who hear marijuana and ONLY think DRUG like crack, meth, PCP, heroin. (my parents would be some) but they are dying in number and soon very soon society will accept it and see that there is nothing to be scared of. more people than you would think toke up, most NEVER drive high and usually just smoke and chill at the crib. no harm in that. its not as crazy as "Reefer Madness" portrays it
Reefer Madness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- reduce crime
- make money by taxing it
one thing i thought was really funny was the whole Mexico situation. i live in Arizona so the boarder and such is a huge deal here. they way i see it is that its one less thing coming across from Mexico. and it wont cost any man hours, money or human life to make this happen. will it stop the other drugs and crime, definitely not. but nobody would stay buying the dirty Mexican when there will be much better locally grown stuff readily available.
for those who think that legalizing it will cause a boom in the number of users. that's just paranoia. people aren't going to start blazin because its legal now. people dont turn 21 and start drinking when they had never considered it before because its legal for them now. i know plenty of people who don't smoke weed but kick it with potheads, they don't get contact (2nd hand) highs. just like anything else you like it or you don't. i also don't know anyone who doesn't smoke just because its illegal. believe me, ANY kid in high school can get weed whenever he/she wants. legalizing it isn't going to make it any more available to them.
weed inst chemically addictive like nicotine and alcohol, its habitual. no withdraws. no chemical dependency. no real weed "addiction" just a habit. it does have the potential to create a issue when it takes priority over other aspects of a persons life. but so does shopping, sex, gambling, alcohol, and many other things you can become addicted to and use to ruin your life.
the violence around weed has NOTHING to do with being high or anything like that, its about the MONEY. its because its illegal that people rob people for weed because you CANT call the cops an report it. you make it legal and eventually it will be no more worth stealing than beer and alcohol because there's no black market for it.
OBVIOUSLY it will still be illegal to drive while you are high. people who use the "impaired driver" as a stand against it is ignorant. Never will it be ok to drive under the influence of ANYTHING whether its Alcohol, weed, cough syrup, pain meds or ANYTHING ELSE. and as with everything else it will be up to the officer to decide whether you are impaired or not.
The people who would grow it at home would be few and far between. most people don't have the time, knowledge, and other resources to do it as well as the the big guys who would be selling to "coffee shops" (i hope is what they are come to called) and for the ones who did? this would only further to decrease its value outside of the "legal sources"
do you have any idea the kind of profit margin there is with weed??? if the government taxed it and regulated it they could make tons in taxes off the growers, shops, other associated merchandise. a good friend of mine has a dad who works with farmers and buys and sells farmed goods, he doesn't smoke weed, never has and never will. but he wants it to be legalized because he sees no hard and knows the kind of profit there is in it if done right.
people don't do crazy shit because they have been getting high. when have you ever heard of a dad who smokes up and abuses his wife and kids?? now how many alcoholics do just that? how many people have woken up and said :i was soo stoned last night, i cant believe i hooked up with/ did this/ did that......" noo people get drunk and do stupid shit all the time.
weed isn't a "gateway" drug because you smoke a few times and go "damn i wanna try it all" it puts you in touch with the people selling these other drugs and have them trying to make money off you on those as well. you wouldn't walk into a weed shop and be asked if you want coke/ecstasy or anything else like that. but that's how drug dealers handle it.
where i live the possession of ANY amount of marijuana is a FELONY, yet all the time i see police take someones herb and let them walk. i was going to cali with a few friends a couple years ago, got pulled over smokin and the the police took our shit, didn't press charges and waited for the driver to pass a sobriety test to let us go. he said "weed isnt a big deal anymore, its ognne be legal everywhere in 5-10 years. just dont do it if youre driving" another time i was pulled over for a rolling stop and wide turn, and my car was STANKY the cop searched didnt find anything and said "you are either really lucky or have a really good hiding spot, make sure you turn into the closest lane and you have a good night." i obviously wasn't intoxicated and he didn't seem too interested in finding my shit, no guns, weapons in the car. he very well could have called a dog. we actually had this very conversation while we waited on another officer. i know SOOO many stories of police letting weed smokers walk. even when here ITS A FELONY, don't ever hear of them doing the same with ANY other drugs. even most police have a relaxed attitude towards marijuana. and i am speaking from my own experience and there had been plenty in my teen years,
there are some people who hear marijuana and ONLY think DRUG like crack, meth, PCP, heroin. (my parents would be some) but they are dying in number and soon very soon society will accept it and see that there is nothing to be scared of. more people than you would think toke up, most NEVER drive high and usually just smoke and chill at the crib. no harm in that. its not as crazy as "Reefer Madness" portrays it
Reefer Madness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
D
Dark Jedi
Guest
And you know how many times I heard an alcoholic or smoker say its not addictive. I can quit anytime, I am in complete control?
tommy_ed
Android Expert
thats a definite exaggeration when it comes to marijuana. look at the studies. Maybe 10% become addicted to it. I can give my own first hand experience: i smoked literally every day for about 3 years. One day I decided I didn't want to smoke anymore. So I stopped right then. I had NO withdrawal effects, or even cravings really. I didn't smoke at all for over a year, and now I'll occasionally smoke at a party or something like that. I'd also like to mention I noticed absolutely no difference in my memory or cognitive skills once I quit.
D
Dark Jedi
Guest
Because most addicts dont know they have a problem.
I have known many smokers and drinkers that was heavy users and they quit cold turkey with no problems what so ever. Why they say every person is different. You was able to kick the habit. While others cant so easly. Thats with anything people are addicted to.
Did I question your memory or cognitive skills?
lordofthereef
Android Expert
Perhaps a better on the field test can be produced (if it's profitable for a company to do so). I honestly don't know. Right now, if you smell like pot, have pot, or any drug paraphernalia on you, you're busted, so we have really had no need for these field tests to be developed. Perhaps they could/would be as we see more and more states opening up to the idea of legalization.
At the end of the day if you are driving like crap it doesn't matter. You get pulled over. If the officer has probably cause, perhaps one should be forced to go to the precinct and take a urine test.
lordofthereef
Android Expert
Respectfully, that is a poor example. Let's just take smoking. How many people do you think smoke frequently, and then die a decent old age from reasons unrelated to their tobacco use. PLENTY. Risks are simply included. You smoked marijuana for three years and are not an addict. My college roommate got piss drunk daily for three years and is not an addict. That doesn't mean there isn't a large enough risk of addiction occurring though.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
All good questions among many more. If the herb is to be legalized, the Feds will have to answer them.
And there many more that have a problem quitting. I am waiting on JUST ONE CASE where a "pot addict's" body literally shuts down from withdrawal. What you are saying is pot is JUST as addictive as nicotine, alcohol, yet have NOTHING to back it up. Btw, the only thing in this thread showing pot' addictiveness says it is a mental disorder. I am willing to bet that the 10% cited there would also be addicted to other things that don't have a physically addictive nature. IE, sex, gambling, food.... In any sense, please post something that says pot addiction is physical, or stop saying it is "as addictive" or more addictive than substances that are widely known to be physically addictive...
lordofthereef
Android Expert
I just don't understand why you are waiting for this? The fact that it is not as bad as alcohol or nicotine, in terms of addiction, isn't a very valid reason for legalization. We don't legalize drugs based solely on how addicting they become.
Caffeine was mentioned at some point, yet any kid any age can get a hold of it. Why? Because it doesn't alter the mind/body enough to be considered a threat.
tommy_ed
Android Expert
never said you did, I was just throwing it out there.
the thing is, I know a lot of people who were heavy users and quit, and not one of the them had any physical side effects.
tommy_ed
Android Expert
why does it matter how it effects your own body? as long as the way we're doing these substances isn't effecting other people's lives we should be able to do them. Driving impaired already is and would remain illegal and enforced. I'm sure you wouldn't be allowed to smoke indoors. Why not save and then make some money off of it that we can put towards something actually useful?
lordofthereef
Android Expert
Because to get something like this legalized, there must be proof that it doesn't effect other "innocent" people's lives. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it does, but it takes a whole lot more proof/data to show something is safe for the society than to show that it is dangerous.
lordofthereef
Android Expert
What is many? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? You need even more than that to have any sort of conclusive.