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I believe that marijuana should be legal (discussion)

Dark Jedi said:
Isnt congress about now made up of people from the hippie age and younger? So I am sure many had partaken in the weed. But still they wont legalize it. I have always wondered why. I have heard many a pot smoker say if I had the power I would legalize it. Well I am sure there are many in congress that has spoken those exact words. So why wont they do it?
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My guess is they fear voter alienation.

Few politicians likely want to go on record supporting MJ legalization. They might want it, but they will never say so publicly or make legalization a part of their platform, because most Americans do not use the weed.
 
lordofthereef said:
And I would like to see evidence that regulating where one can buy it (re: alcohol) actually makes a damn bit of difference.
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Very confused, clarify kindly.

Are you looking for some connection between alcohol abuse and availability? If it were not readily available, people would find a way to get it. Just like pot. Not legal, but available.

If alcohol were made illegal, people would still buy it, but not everyone that currently purchases alcohol would. If you get a ticket for beer possession, some would still use because a ticket is nothing. Make possession painful, and many beer users would stop.

And criminals would grow rich trading in alcohol. We absolutely know this to be a fact. So banning beer to solve a societal problem will create a much bigger problem.

Bob
 
I think he is saying that making high alcohol content beer only available at liqour stores does nothing to curb the negative effects.
 
nlsme said:
I think he is saying that making high alcohol content beer only available at liqour stores does nothing to curb the negative effects.
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OK, I wanted to be sure.

One must ask if the problems are greater with high alcohol beer Vs the 3.2 stuff most people consume. Not sure there is a correlation. Not sure there is not a correlation, either.

I think low power beer is more of a problem because it is what most Utah drinker consume; the higher octane versions are more costly, and therefore, consumed less.

Everything in Moderation, as they say.
 
i love this statement, because you just proved yourself wrong in a way.

Bob Maxey said:
It is not OK to make your own alcohol. Well, you can make beer and wine, but that is it. Growing pot is easy in the home garden. I know a little something about indoor plants and hydroponics. In my view, it is grown inside because growers want to keep it a secret and have no other choice but to use a more difficult growing process.
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usually people grow it indoors because they can better control the environment it grows in.

Bob Maxey said:
In the garden, it is a weed and it can easily be cultivated, even in Utah.

I do not want to make my own Scotch or gin, store bought is far better. MJ can sprout up anywhere, almost. Making good Scotch takes decades, good pot takes a half-way decent growing season.
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false. Good marijuana is NOT easily cultivated. There are many factors that come into play. You have to buy seeds for a good strain, have to know how to manipulate the sex of the plant (male plants are worthless), need to know how to regulate the PH levels of the soil, etc.

Bob Maxey said:
I do not see the comparison as valid because most of us drinkers have no interest in brewing beer, purpling our feet in the grape crusher, or waiting until our children have children to enjoy a nice 60 year old single malt.

I suppose after MJ is legalized (and the new proposal does not legalize MJ in the way most people think, by the way) it will not be enough and people will want to grow Opium Poppies.
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i love this statement, because you just proved yourself wrong in a way. just as most drinkers have no interest in brewing beer, most marijuana users would have no interest in growing pot. Everyone I know would much rather swing by the local gas station and pick up a bag (or whatever it would be sold as) than go through all the hassle of growing
 
Bob Maxey said:
If alcohol were made illegal, people would still buy it, but not everyone that currently purchases alcohol would. If you get a ticket for beer possession, some would still use because a ticket is nothing. Make possession painful, and many beer users would stop.

And criminals would grow rich trading in alcohol. We absolutely know this to be a fact. So banning beer to solve a societal problem will create a much bigger problem.

Bob
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this is the EXACT same situation with marijuana. So you agree that it should be legalized then?
 
tommy_ed said:
this is the EXACT same situation with marijuana. So you agree that it should be legalized then?
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No, not at all.

We already have two things that cause serious societal issues: alcohol and tobacco. We can't ban them without creating a problem. This we know. I do not think we need yet one more intoxicant that can be abused.

If it were to be legalized, I'll shut up.

I do not think we need another thing added to the mix that despite the views of many/most supporters, will cause problems. Legalizing the herb will not necessarily solve crime.
 
Do you think if they legalize it. then tobacco and alcohol useage might go down some?
 
Dark Jedi said:
Do you think if they legalize it. then tobacco and alcohol useage might go down some?
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I do not know. I know that both are addictive and let's fact it, nothing better than a great beer at the barbecue. My guess is it might simply be another thing to use and it will be used.

Perhaps those that neither smoke or drink will use.
 
Bob Maxey said:
Very confused, clarify kindly.

Are you looking for some connection between alcohol abuse and availability? If it were not readily available, people would find a way to get it. Just like pot. Not legal, but available.

If alcohol were made illegal, people would still buy it, but not everyone that currently purchases alcohol would. If you get a ticket for beer possession, some would still use because a ticket is nothing. Make possession painful, and many beer users would stop.

And criminals would grow rich trading in alcohol. We absolutely know this to be a fact. So banning beer to solve a societal problem will create a much bigger problem.

Bob
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Pardon the vagueness. I read my own sentence and had I not know what I was thinking at the time I wouldn't be able to understand it myself.

You (and others) have made points about restrictions on alcohol. In your case, in UT, only liquor stores can sell beers over 3% alcohol content by volume. What I would like to see is evidence that this law has done a bit of good to the public. Is UT somehow better off restricting supermarkets to 3% alcohol by volume beer?
 
Bob Maxey said:
I do not know. I know that both are addictive and let's fact it, nothing better than a great beer at the barbecue. My guess is it might simply be another thing to use and it will be used.

Perhaps those that neither smoke or drink will use.
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Alcohol is far more addictive than pot. There hasn't been one case study to show pot is addictive at all. People have died from alcohol withdrawal. There is no such thing as "pot poisoning", but alcohol poisoning kills regularly.
 
I bet you if you got enough in your system it would become toxic. Pretty much anything will. As far as I am concerned if you get cravings for something that has no metabolic benefit to you, there is some addiction occurring.
 
lordofthereef said:
Pardon the vagueness. I read my own sentence and had I not know what I was thinking at the time I wouldn't be able to understand it myself.

You (and others) have made points about restrictions on alcohol. In your case, in UT, only liquor stores can sell beers over 3% alcohol content by volume. What I would like to see is evidence that this law has done a bit of good to the public. Is UT somehow better off restricting supermarkets to 3% alcohol by volume beer?
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Not a problem, that is why I asked for clarification.

I am not sure the rules have done much. When a driver drives drunk and is caught, I am not sure the police report ever really mentions a specific brand, just blood alcohol levels. That can come from lots of weak beer or several strong beers.
 
nlsme said:
Alcohol is far more addictive than pot. There hasn't been one case study to show pot is addictive at all. People have died from alcohol withdrawal. There is no such thing as "pot poisoning", but alcohol poisoning kills regularly.
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Perhaps, but if true, the lack of a serious study does not mean that pot is not addictive, either. A serious study might tell us that pot is addictive. After all. You said it, there have been no studies.

So if there is a study and it is determined to be addictive, what then? Do you say, forget the study? Or do you accept it and change your view? I think people want studies to support their unscientific best guesses and if proven wrong, suddenly, the study is wrong or ignored.
 
Bob Maxey said:
Perhaps, but if true, the lack of a serious study does not mean that pot is not addictive, either. A serious study might tell us that pot is addictive. After all. You said it, there have been no studies.

So if there is a study and it is determined to be addictive, what then? Do you say, forget the study? Or do you accept it and change your view? I think people want studies to support their unscientific best guesses and if proven wrong, suddenly, the study is wrong or ignored.
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i think you misunderstood him. there HAVE been studies and they've all found pot not to be a physically addictive drug. sure, you can crave it. same goes for chocolate, as mentioned above.
 
Most people that use marijuana do not become addicted to it, but roughly 10% of marijuana users develop an addiction and that addiction comes with a very real syndrome of withdrawal symptoms that occur with sudden cessation of use.
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The American Psychology Association (APA) considers marijuana dependence a real condition and includes it in its handbook of mental disorders, the DSM-IV.
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From

Marijuana Addiction
 
i guess there are articles that support either side of the argument, but the point is irrelevant... you should be allowed to do it if you want.

what if someone told you you couldn't smoke cigarettes, drink, use anything that contains caffeine, have sex, or play videos games because they could all be considered addictive?
 
Assuming that 10% number is accurate, I think that number, while seemingly low, is way higher than the percentage of people addicted to sex (or insert any of the above here) who partake in the activity. It's also worth noting that the sample sizes of marijuana users compared to the sample sizes of alcohol consumers and tobacco smokers are most likely incredibly small.

I think you are absolutely right though. It shouldn't make a difference if I choose to partake in addictive activities.

The government has taken it upon themselves to feel the need to warn us of the risks (see surgeon general's warnings). I am simply attempting to point out that something like this would likely be put into effect if marijuana was legalized. I just don't see it going from an illegal substance to something that can be sold nationwide without any warnings whatsoever.

Lastly, the scale of how addictive a substance is isn't necessarily grounds for labeling it acceptable (or unacceptable) for use by the general public. Take a look at medications. The fast majority of prescription medications are not controlled (not deemed as medications prone to abuse). This doesn't mean that I can go to the local Walgreens and grab a bottle of antibiotic because I decided I had strep throat. In this specific case I fully support not just being able to do whatever you want with your body.
 
On the caffeine comment, I sincerely think there should be warnings on products that are high in caffeine. It can be highly problematic, especially for developing kids.
 
agreed! not to mention caffeine is more addictive than ANY of the substances mentioned so far. kind of the pot calling the kettle black for a lot of people opposing marijuana because of it's "addictiveness"
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
Marijuana bill officially introduced to Congress by Ron Paul, Barney Frank - latimes.com

Legalize it! RON PAUL 2012!!!
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No the bill is for leaving it up to the states to decide. Do you even read the page or just the headline of the page?

The goal of the bill, HR 2306, is not to legalize marijuana but to remove it from the list of federally controlled substances while allowing states to decide how they will regulate it.
"I do not advocate urging people to smoke marijuana. Neither do I urge them to drink alcoholic beverages or smoke tobacco," said Frank (D-Mass.). "But in none of these cases do I think prohibition enforced by criminal sanctions is good public policy.
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