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Help I feel like I'm in the effin' twilight zone

cartisdm

cartisdm

Android Enthusiast
I don't know how much more I can take. Android has a bug with it's GPS feature and no one is willing to acknowledge it. I have made posts about it before but no one seems to even have any clue what I'm talking about. If do some googling you will find people that create posts with the same exact issue, but all the responses are people saying they've never heard of it and it must be a fluke or something.

NO.

I can't take it, it's a real bug and no one will admit it. I don't know why it affects some phones more than others, but it does.

My phone puts me in China, California, Europe. ALL OVER THE WORLD. My co-worker sits next to me and has a Droid X and currently he and I are both in Hanoi according to our phones. My fiancee has an Incredible and it's only happened like once or twice but it's still happened.

Why am I in the twilight zone here? How are more people not realizing this problem?!?!?!

(I'm really sorry for the rant....I truly love my phone, but this bug affects SO MUCH of my daily use) :(:(:(

PS I have used stock 2.1, 2.2, the OTA update for 2.2, and Virtuous 3.2. All have the bug, but it was extremely rare on 2.1
 
Yeah I've heard of many people who've had this problem and understand your frustration. I know the shortlist of fixes out there and with your having been rooted and on a custom Rom, I somewhat doubt anything is going to work.

It's happened once on my phone while using Sense and the HTC clock/weather app. Switched to Fancy Widget (in it's pre-banned form) and it went back to normal.

Verizon needs to accept and address this problem.
 
iowabowtech said:
Yeah I've heard of many people who've had this problem and understand your frustration. I know the shortlist of fixes out there and with your having been rooted and on a custom Rom, I somewhat doubt anything is going to work.

It's happened once on my phone while using Sense and the HTC clock/weather app. Switched to Fancy Widget (in it's pre-banned form) and it went back to normal.

Verizon needs to accept and address this problem.
Click to expand...

God it feels nice to have someone at least see where I'm coming from. I don't see why VZW/HTC won't realize it's an issue. There are posts about people with the Eris having the same problem. It's obviously a bug!
 
Is it a phone or GPS issue?

If you turn GPS off and use only network location, do you still get a wacked out location?

If it only happens with GPS, get an app like GPS Status, and check to see how many satellites your connected to when you get a location and the signal strength. GPS must have at least 3 satellites to compute a location. It might be your phone is trying to compute a location with less than 3 satellites causing the error.

Does it only happen in doors? If so, again I would lean towards satellite interference. GPS requires a direct line of sight to the satellite. What happens is the GPS measure the time it takes for a signal to go from the satellite to your device to determine distance and compute location. If that signal is bouncing off buildings trees etc. it will return a bad location.
 
There is one thing I might try. Although you were using Virtuous, it is essentially stock 2.2 in it's framework. Perhaps try a Rom that borrows from the EVO framework, something like rEVOlution by HeyItsLou or a variant.

Although I still think the best explanation is one of hardware, it could potentially be a power management issue to GPS that originates from software settings.

I say that because I also noticed it seemed to be much less of a problem on 2.1 and I had it happen on my phone on a single occasion (2.2). Since then, and perhaps near to that time, I moved to EVO ports and haven't used anything else besides a brief stay on Gingerbread. Could be worth a shot.
 
cipher6 said:
Is it a phone or GPS issue?

If you turn GPS off and use only network location, do you still get a wacked out location?

If it only happens with GPS, get an app like GPS Status, and check to see how many satellites your connected to when you get a location and the signal strength. GPS must have at least 3 satellites to compute a location. It might be your phone is trying to compute a location with less than 3 satellites causing the error.

Does it only happen in doors? If so, again I would lean towards satellite interference. GPS requires a direct line of sight to the satellite. What happens is the GPS measure the time it takes for a signal to go from the satellite to your device to determine distance and compute location. If that signal is bouncing off buildings trees etc. it will return a bad location.
Click to expand...

A while back I tried to use GPS Status to "configure" the satellites, but it didn't help. I didn't pay attention to the number of satellites it was using though. I will download it again.

Yes, usually when I am indoors. For instance, while at work.


EDIT: Here is a screenshot of what GPS Status is telling me. I'm not sure what to make of it...
 

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Don't think there is much configuration of satellites you can do (might be wrong). GPS Status just shows how many satellites your connected to and other phone sensor information.

If it only happens in doors, I would lean towards GPS issue not phone. And it's not really an issue, as in there is something broken, that's just a limitation of GPS. You have to have direct line of sight, distance is determined by time signal travels, bouncing off stuff makes it travel longer computing longer distance. And you have to have at least 3 sats to mathematically compute a location, (x,y,z) additional satellites will make the location more accurate.

Thats just the way GPS works, and one reason why an option for network location exists.
 
EDIT: Here is a screenshot of what GPS Status is telling me. I'm not sure what to make of it...
Click to expand...

Its telling you, your not connected to enough sats to get a location fix.

The green dots are the satellites your connected to, the bigger the dot the stronger the signal. The green bars bellow the compass area are also signal indicators. It shows your only connected to one sat.

If you connect to 3 or more, it will get a location fix and display the lat long in the bottom half of the screen, where the refresh circle is shown in your screen shot.

It seems for what ever reason, google maps (or what ever your using) is reporting a location even though your GPS can't get a location fix. Try keeping GPS status on, then walking around the room, or to a window, or outside, and see if you can get some more sat connections. Wait till it reports a lat long, so you know you have a fix, then open maps and see where it sets your location.
 
Just a guess, but maybe you don't have a GPS signal when this happense and maybe the Wi-Fi positioning is what's placing you in Hanoi. In other words, maybe your network setup at work is incorrect.

I can say that my GPS positioning on my inc has been nearly flawless since I got it last May.
 
LiquidBreadMan said:
Just a guess, but maybe you don't have a GPS signal when this happense and maybe the Wi-Fi positioning is what's placing you in Hanoi. In other words, maybe your network setup at work is incorrect.

I can say that my GPS positioning on my inc has been nearly flawless since I got it last May.
Click to expand...

Ok, here's what I'm noticing now. If I leave GPS Status up for a long time and monitor it, it keeps going from 1/1, 0/2, 2/2, 2/3 satellites but won't get all 3.

I went to Menu -> Settings -> Location and turned off the Verizon Location Services.

My thinking is that when my GPS can't get a full fix something else is telling it to go to that location. It always puts me in the center of a city, not an actual location in a city. Make sense?
 
sounds like you have a hard time getting enough sats... the only time ive ever had that problem was from that and sometimes when wifi is on
 
With no GPS location maps will try to get a network location via google services. This uses cell towers and mapped wifi networks to determine your location.

I've noticed many times, it seems the google location uses only cell towers to get a location. I think this might have something to do with google getting in trouble for wifi mapping. skyhook is suing it, and governments are upset their collecting wifi data.

Anyway, when it uses a cell tower to get your location, it seems it puts you on the cell tower site, with a large radius. That might be your case, does it show a large radius around your location?

The other possibility is, it can only resolve for a location to a city level, ie based on available data it can only determine you are in city X, and shows your location in the center of the city.

Are you in a tall or large building? If so, maybe the wifi signals your connected to in the office don't make it to the street, and were never mapped by google, so it can only pinpoint you to a tower or city location.

THere is an app, can't remember the name right now, that will show you the location of the cell tower your connect to. You can use that, see where your tower is, if its the same location google is putting you at, I think its a safe guess its using a cell tower location because google can't get a wifi location and you dont' have a GPS signal.

As far as putting you in Hanoi, I think that is google trying to use a GPS location, but not having a true GPS fix. That might be a bug, it shouldn't do that, it should tell you can't get a fix or revert to wifi/cell location. But it would be a bug with the Google Maps app, not the phone itself.



Edit:

can you ever get a lock on more than 2 sats? If you go outside does GPS Status ever get a location fix? If no, are there a lot of buildings around?

If you can't get a location fix in GPS Status outside in a open area away from large buildings and trees, you might have a bad GPS sensor, (never heard of that but its possible.)

Also, in GPS Status, there is an open green circle, if your point your phone in such a way that that open circle is around a green dot, then your phone will be pointing directly at that sat. Do that, then look up, are there trees buildings or other obstructions in the way degrading the signal?
 
I understand that there will be times when my GPS signal won't be strong - that's a part of technology and I'm ok with it. What I DON'T like is being thrown all over the country. It should just use my last known location or something (which is going to be Charlotte, NC 99% of the time).

So far by unchecking the Verizon Location Services I have staying in my correct location. I willl continue to monitor it and see if it helps...
 
cartisdm said:
I understand that there will be times when my GPS signal won't be strong - that's a part of technology and I'm ok with it. What I DON'T like is being thrown all over the country. It should just use my last known location or something (which is going to be Charlotte, NC 99% of the time).

So far by unchecking the Verizon Location Services I have staying in my correct location. I willl continue to monitor it and see if it helps...
Click to expand...

Verizon services is only used by the verizon navigator, pretty much everything else will use either google services or GPS.

The google and verizon services are essentially the same thing, location determined by cell tower and wifi mapping, they just each access a different database, one maintained by verizon one by google. Applications have to ask one or the other for a location, so most apps will ask google, except verizon apps.

So it will be weird if unchecking Verizon services helps your situation. Your viewing your location in Google maps right?
 
cipher6 said:
With no GPS location maps will try to get a network location via google services. This uses cell towers and mapped wifi networks to determine your location.

I've noticed many times, it seems the google location uses only cell towers to get a location. I think this might have something to do with google getting in trouble for wifi mapping. skyhook is suing it, and governments are upset their collecting wifi data.

Anyway, when it uses a cell tower to get your location, it seems it puts you on the cell tower site, with a large radius. That might be your case, does it show a large radius around your location?

The other possibility is, it can only resolve for a location to a city level, ie based on available data it can only determine you are in city X, and shows your location in the center of the city.

Are you in a tall or large building? If so, maybe the wifi signals your connected to in the office don't make it to the street, and were never mapped by google, so it can only pinpoint you to a tower or city location.

THere is an app, can't remember the name right now, that will show you the location of the cell tower your connect to. You can use that, see where your tower is, if its the same location google is putting you at, I think its a safe guess its using a cell tower location because google can't get a wifi location and you dont' have a GPS signal.

As far as putting you in Hanoi, I think that is google trying to use a GPS location, but not having a true GPS fix. That might be a bug, it shouldn't do that, it should tell you can't get a fix or revert to wifi/cell location. But it would be a bug with the Google Maps app, not the phone itself.



Edit:

can you ever get a lock on more than 2 sats? If you go outside does GPS Status ever get a location fix? If no, are there a lot of buildings around?

If you can't get a location fix in GPS Status outside in a open area away from large buildings and trees, you might have a bad GPS sensor, (never heard of that but its possible.)

Also, in GPS Status, there is an open green circle, if your point your phone in such a way that that open circle is around a green dot, then your phone will be pointing directly at that sat. Do that, then look up, are there trees buildings or other obstructions in the way degrading the signal?
Click to expand...


Wow, that was one hell of a post. Thanks for taking the time!

I don't connect to Wifi while at work because we don't broadcast any (I wish we did, it would save me a ton of battery). So it's either Google Services or Verizon Services that are shooting me to cities around the world. I don't get a large blue circle around me, it's like it's just centering me in the city based on data or an address at a city level.

As for going outside, yes if I move around or go outside my signal will be totally fine. It's when I sit still is when my GPS goes crazy. And not just at work, sometimes while I'm home or in other buildings/restaurants.
 
I don't connect to Wifi while at work
Click to expand...

Is your wifi turned on, even though your not connecting to a network? A wifi location is determined by looking at the mac address for all the wifi networks it can see (not connect to) the checking a database to determine a location.

If wifi and GPS is completly turned off, or wifi turned off and GPS not getting a signal, it might be trying to compute a location based on IP address, which could be why you get shot all over the world. Andy why it puts you in the middle of a city with no radius of location error.

When I'm in Google maps I can tell if its a wifi/cell/GPS location based on the error radius it gives... I've never seen it give none.

If Wifi is off, trying turning it on, then checking your location, you don't have to connect to anything, just have it on so it can see whats around.


Edit:

I just tried it, with my wifi and GPS off, and google sevices on, Google Maps shows me at the cell tower I'm connected to, with a large error radius. maybe for what ever reason, google doesn't have the cell towers mapped in your location and then reverts to a ip address based location.

Edit:

Open Signal Maps and Tower Location.

Download one or both of thouse apps, check and see the location of the tower your connected to, is it the same location Google Maps is putting you?

Based on what you've said, I would guess no, and that google is giving you an ip based location for some reason, which is why you get put all over the world and see no error radius.
 
cipher6 said:
Is your wifi turned on, even though your not connecting to a network? A wifi location is determined by looking at the mac address for all the wifi networks it can see (not connect to) the checking a database to determine a location.

If wifi and GPS is completly turned off, or wifi turned off and GPS not getting a signal, it might be trying to compute a location based on IP address, which could be why you get shot all over the world. Andy why it puts you in the middle of a city with no radius of location error.

When I'm in Google maps I can tell if its a wifi/cell/GPS location based on the error radius it gives... I've never seen it give none.

If Wifi is off, trying turning it on, then checking your location, you don't have to connect to anything, just have it on so it can see whats around.


Edit:

I just tried it, with my wifi and GPS off, and google sevices on, Google Maps shows me at the cell tower I'm connected to, with a large error radius. maybe for what ever reason, google doesn't have the cell towers mapped in your location and then reverts to a ip address based location.

Edit:

Open Signal Maps and Tower Location.

Download one or both of thouse apps, check and see the location of the tower your connected to, is it the same location Google Maps is putting you?

Based on what you've said, I would guess no, and that google is giving you an ip based location for some reason, which is why you get put all over the world and see no error radius.
Click to expand...

cipher6 said:
One more idea:

Go to What Is My IP Address - Shows Your IP Address on your phone and write down your ip address.

Then go here: Google-Map.com - Google Map

and input that IP Address. Does that location match the wrong location your getting from google maps? If yes, the Maps App is giving you a location based on IP address. (it still might not match, google might use a different database to determine IP location)
Click to expand...


Update: I went two hours with Verizon Location Services turned off and my cell phone (HTC Clock Widget) didn't change locations. I just turned it back on and my phone jumped to Hanoi, but it wanted to fight it (Maps would say I am near my work, latitude would show my address as Hanoi, HTC Clock widget was flipping back and forth every time I hit refresh).

So I think Verizon Location Services might be the culprit.

Wifi on (not connected)

I am going to continue to test this some more and see what I can narrow down. After I do that, I will try the ip ideas you mentioned as well
 
Hmmm... maybe the phone's OS itself tries to get a location via the verizon services for things like the HTC clock widget, and verizon has some bad data in their database?

If you never get problems with verizon turned off, that might be the issue. I'd say just keep it off, I never use it.

Whats weird is, google can't get a location from Verizon services. Try it, turn off google services and GPS and keep Verizon services on. Go to your Maps App, click the location button. It should tell you to turn on My Location services...

... whats your 3g signal strength?
 
cipher6 said:
Hmmm... maybe the phone's OS itself tries to get a location via the verizon services for things like the HTC clock widget, and verizon has some bad data in their database?

If you never get problems with verizon turned off, that might be the issue. I'd say just keep it off, I never use it.

Whats weird is, google can't get a location from Verizon services. Try it, turn off google services and GPS and keep Verizon services on. Go to your Maps App, click the location button. It should tell you to turn on My Location services...

... whats your 3g signal strength?
Click to expand...

Never mind. It turns out it was just a fluke - my location still goes all screwy with the Verizon Location Services turned off.

I turned Verizon Location Services back on and waited for my location to send me to Hanoi again. Then I opened up "Cell Tower Locator" app and it says I am in Hanoi due to Network. Then I turned OFF my wifi and I shot straight to the cell tower about a mile from my work. Success? Possibly...

So if wifi is sending me all over because it's trying to locate me even though there aren't any networks nearby, what is the best solution now? Keep turning off wifi? That might get annoying but I guess it's a fix...
 
cartisdm said:
Never mind. It turns out it was just a fluke - my location still goes all screwy with the Verizon Location Services turned off.

I turned Verizon Location Services back on and waited for my location to send me to Hanoi again. Then I opened up "Cell Tower Locator" app and it says I am in Hanoi due to Network. Then I turned OFF my wifi and I shot straight to the cell tower about a mile from my work. Success? Possibly...

So if wifi is sending me all over because it's trying to locate me even though there aren't any networks nearby, what is the best solution now? Keep turning off wifi? That might get annoying but I guess it's a fix...
Click to expand...

Turn off google location services.
 
my location still goes all screwy with the Verizon Location Services turned off.
Click to expand...

That makes more sense.

I turned Verizon Location Services back on and waited for my location to send me to Hanoi again. Then I opened up "Cell Tower Locator" app and it says I am in Hanoi due to Network. Then I turned OFF my wifi and I shot straight to the cell tower about a mile from my work. Success? Possibly...
Click to expand...

I think its safe to say, google wifi map of that area is f'ed up. Are you in a tall building? It might be the wifi signals you can see now don't make it to street level and the google car didn't pick them up. Why it then decides your in Hanoi I don't know. Maybe some wifi router in your area used to be installed in Hanoi?

It seems Google does have a good map of cell towers in your area, which is why when you turn WiFi off, all Google has to determine your location is your cell tower.

So if wifi is sending me all over because it's trying to locate me even though there aren't any networks nearby, what is the best solution now? Keep turning off wifi? That might get annoying but I guess it's a fix..
Click to expand...

I'm guessing this will be a location specific error. Are you in a rather large city? If so, I would expect other areas of the city to be mapped better, especially closer to street level. If thats the case, you really shouldn't have to do anything special. yeah, at work it will report a bad location, but you know where you are already.

Keep GPS off and wifi on, and test out the location it gives you in different areas of your city.

I'd guess, as far as functionality, ie. being in your car and wanting to know where the closest gas station is, it should work ok. Unless your whole city is mapped all wrong.

question: if you go into your settings Wireless & Networks -> Wifi Settings, do you see ANY networks listed?

I'm guessing you will see something, even if its not open and you can't connect. I'm guessing there is a wifi signal somewhere around you that for what ever reason resolves to a Hanoi location. If there was no wifi I would expect it to default to the cell tower location.

an app called wifi analyzer can sometimes show more wifi signals that don't show up in the list under the settings, (I think because their signal isn't strong enough)

I'd also expect one day for the issue to magically vanish, when ever google fixes their wifi map in that area. Don't know how often they do that though.

Turn off google location services.
Click to expand...

With no google location and no GPS he will have no location and won't be able to use Google Maps to see whats around.
 
This happened to me in Oakland airport, my phone was telling me I was in Boston. I realized that my location services were set to google only. I turned back on Verizon location services and it fixed the problem immediately.
 
ThrillKill said:
This happened to me in Oakland airport, my phone was telling me I was in Boston. I realized that my location services were set to google only. I turned back on Verizon location services and it fixed the problem immediately.
Click to expand...

Google maps can't use Verizon location services, something else must have fixed it. Or it was a fluke in the way google services was checking its database.

From what I understand of the google location services, Verizon, Skyhook and all the various network location services, is they have a large database of mac addresses (or some other identifier) for wifi and cell signals. When the Google car goes by, as well as taking pics, it logs all the wifi/cell signals in the area. The only difference in the services is who maintains the database.


When an app wants to know the phones location it sends identifiers of the wifi/cell signals it sees to the service, which runs it through the database and some algorithms and determines a location.

So when google maps sends you all over the world, for what ever reason, the algorithm didn't work right, errors in the identifiers for the signals you see etc and you get a bad location.

Turning on another location service should have no effect, because the app can't ask that service for a location.
 
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