I left Apple IOS and came back to Android! (My reasons why)----->>

[Dark Jedi]

I dont know why the OP was shocked with all the bad replys towards the Iphone in here. This is an android forum and I bet if I posted this same thing and replaced iPhone with android in an apple forum. I bet the same replies would be posted in there as in here.

Show up to a PETA meeting wearing a fur coat with seal pup boots and see how many nice things people says about what you are wearing. lol

 

[Thai]

I dont know why the OP was shocked with all the bad replys towards the Iphone in here. This is an android forum and I bet if I posted this same thing and replaced iPhone with android in an apple forum. I bet the same replies would be posted in there as in here.

Show up to a PETA meeting wearing a fur coat with seal pup boots and see how many nice things people says about what you are wearing. lol

Actually, Covart is NOT the OP. The OP is a big fan of Android.

 

[lunatic59]

I agree for most things. However, with the iPhone, it is so commonplace now...so, how is something a status symbol if everyone has one? Your examples of Porsche and Lambos are valid because these are exotics that commoners don't have. It is what some folks live to see one day owning. Can you say the same about iPhones????? I don't.

Status isn't always about rarity. Many times it's about conformity within a specific group and the derision someone may feel noncompliance opens themselves up for. Just like underclassmen at RISD (Rhode Island School of Design) all wear jeans and black t-shirts and a defacto uniform ... or at least that was the perception "back in the day", if the social group you aspire to join or are part of all carry iPhones, wear Nike sneakers and drive Mini Cooper's, those are the material symbols you would desire. It doesn't make iPhones, Nike's or Mini Cooper's bad products. On the contrary, they are all fine products, just symbols as well.

Is the iPhone really anymore expensive than an Android phone? How much is the Galaxy Nexus? $650 or so? iPhone 4S 16 gb is around that price, right? Same memory capacity.

Then, you add in the cost of what most people pay for these phones...$200 (for 16 gb) with contract from carriers. This is the same price that you pay for an iPhone or any top Android phone on the market. Sure, the iPhone $200 may last longer than other Android phones because it is more popular and carriers can milk it longer. Android phone turnover is also a lot faster (aka new models coming out every other month or so it seems).

Didn't really touch on the actual cost, so I'm not sure if you though I was associating status with affluence. I think that comparable device are comparably priced and therefore the point is moot. Social symbols don't necessarily have to be expensive. Just look at those rubberband bracelets that were hot with the kids, or Ugg's for that matter. Fashion is all about social status, IMO.

I think that Android fanboys are using this (status symbol) "argument" to avoid what is clearly true about Apple iPhones...they simply work well and reliably without much fanfare (big glowing screens, big processors, big RAM, etc.). And this is what most people look for (aka again, Camry analogy) and why it is so darn popular among the masses, which include both uneducated and very techy folks.

I think there is a lot of Apple fanboys who would agree with you, if you would permit me the same level of hyperbole. Of course if you visit the Apple support forums or Apple store genius bars, you might find there are quite a few iPhone owners who believe they don't work we, or at least as well as they should. Every consumer product is going to have quality or manufacturing issues at some point. There's simply no escaping it. And, for many people, screen size does matter as do other technical specs. You can't discount them simply because a reputable company like Apple doesn't offer those options.

Sure, the iPhones are also built very well with exacting quality (at least to naked eye) that you simply don't see in any current Android phones.

That is a matter of opinion that I can't agree with on the face of it. The top of the line offerings from Samsung, HTC, Motorola, LG are all on par with Apple in terms of design and materials.

 

[Thai]

I am sure that there are some folks that feel Apple does not work well...but the retention rate (or fanboyism for some folks) is very high for Apple...and not so good for Android.

For me, there is a difference b/w fashion trends (fad) vs. status symbol. What you're describing (via analogies) are more about fad.

 

[Frisco]

For me, there is a difference b/w fashion trends (fad) vs. status symbol. What you're describing (via analogies) are more about fad.

Well, it's an overlapping area, status symbols and fads; one person's status symbol is another person's fad.

In the city where I live, golf is considered an ordinary pass time for males of all ages and income levels. It seems strange to me to see the cheap (Burgie ) beer swilling trailer dwellers out on the course with those of 100 times their annual income every week-end.

But in the area I'm from, far from here , golf is a status symbol plain and simple. Here it is not a fad or status symbol.

Speaking of iPhones, here they are on exactly the same par as Android phones: mini status symbols, as we see those beer swillers using their flip "dumb phones." No fad in any income group, unless you consider being able to afford one a fad.

I consider being able to afford something and taking the trouble to get it, instead of what you'd get if you made less money, a status symbol, such as an airplane instead of saving up frequent flyer miles, or diamond studded belt buckle instead of an ordinary one. etc.

 

[lunatic59]

I am sure that there are some folks that feel Apple does not work well...but the retention rate (or fanboyism for some folks) is very high for Apple...and not so good for Android.

I wish there was a site (maybe there is and I just don't know about it) that dispel these marketing statistics spun into logical fallacies.

Retention in terms of how Apple retains customer loyalty vs. Android has been a much discussed topic since Android began to show the iPhone some serious competition. The survey that started this particular talking point was poorly worded and designed to achieve exaggerated results. Simply asked, a large group of phone consumers were asked if they would buy the same phone. Where Apple has few models with less frequent offerings it is only logical that they would post higher numbers even if everything else were equal. The problem is that there are two ways to look at the data. One is by handset manufacturer and the other is by OS supplier. Since Apple is both for the same product, it puts them in a unique situation that really doesn't statistically transpose to other companies.

If you compare the overall numbers it does give the impression that Apple's retention rate is stellar ... which it is, and enviable by any company ... but it does a disservice to Android which not only has surpassed Apple in market share, but continues to grow at a significant rate. Since market share is determined by both new purchases and retention, I would say Android retention is not as disappointing as some might believe.

For me, there is a difference b/w fashion trends (fad) vs. status symbol. What you're describing (via analogies) are more about fad.

Fad, fashion or status symbol, it's exemplary of choosing a product based on social standards and identity than it is about technical consideration and suitability. Although they don't need to be divergent concepts. In other words, it perfectly fine for an iPhone to be an excellent device and a status symbol.

 

[s.m.knipe]

I am sure that there are some folks that feel Apple does not work well...but the retention rate (or fanboyism for some folks) is very high for Apple...and not so good for Android.

True, and at a $0.99 + price tag per app & song etc., I would hope the retention rate would be higher. Many who retain these products- even despite experiencing issues- do so because of a vested interest in the product- whether economical, social, or just a desire to not have to learn something new. It isn't just fanboyism, i know several people who plan to buy the new iPhone when their contract is up just because they have spent a few hundred dollars on apps over the past three or so years. A lot of people ask me before buying a device because they know i stay current on the new stuff coming out, and their first question after playing with my phone for a while is "will i be able to use the apps i've bought if i get that?" So I'll ask how many, what kinds of apps, etc. (Many $0.99 apps are free on Android), but usually just tell them that at this point ot is cheaper to stay with iOS because they've invested so much into it.

Most people who ask me really dont care about the OS, they care about things lik reliability and long term cost. People looking at smartphones for the first time can kind of get into a pickle- iOS is great to start on, but it is an investment that will have latent costs for leaving the ecosystem.

 

[Dark Jedi]

I am sure that there are some folks that feel Apple does not work well

I am having that moment with my old ipod touch 3gen 32 gig. I cant get itunes or the computer to recognize it. I have uninstalled and reinstalled everything that pertains to apple. Plug it in to the usb port and the computer makes the sound that a usb device has been plugged in. THen when you check usb device it shows up unknown and windows stops it. .

I now see why Ipod touch/iphones has so many broken screens. I am about to throw this thing up against the wall. apple just cant make their product user friendly. Now on to try and find a fix for it. I guess this is what I get making fun of stinky a few months ago when he bricked his iphone a few months back .

So I have reasons to hate apple lol.

 

[EarlyMon]

Status symbols, fads, and blind consumption have been covered, so I'd like to add in that I find a valid and compelling reason exists beyond those for fan behavior: basic excitement from consumer satisfaction.

I had used an iPhone quite a bit for work travel (we have a few to lend out for trustworthy GSM access for us CDMA lovers on foreign travel) and I owned a Samsung stock Android (a few because of reliability issues) - but when I went with my first HTC (the Evo) with its custom overlay and integrated custom apps (that many purists hate) I was overjoyed. I felt like I found that I had finally gotten my hands on the rest the smartphone because all of the pieces that I didn't know that I was missing and wanted were just right there, and easy.

Ironically, I have had to root to get the performance I really wanted, but it's not a perfect world. My wife uses an unrooted HTC slider with only a few additional apps and uses her phone extensively for work and gets great overall performance and battery life, so for her, out of the box just worked great.

She decided to check out an HTC after me raving about mine, and also because she has many girlfriends who raved about their Androids, some of whom were former iPhone owners.

And again, I don't restrict that to Android, many iPhone owners are the same.

With all of the ripoff deals we all face, what's really wrong with being a fan of something satisfying? Nothing, I say.

Not to be confused with fanboy sickness.

All fanboys are big fans, but not all big fans are fanboys. The difference is about tolerance and respect for others in the choices for things that they buy.

PS to Thai - I hereby grant you a lifetime, unlimited right to use my quote about the iPhone being a top-notch product from the start. Included in your license at no extra charge are my famous quotes, "There is no perfect phone, just the one that is best for a given person at a given point in time" and "Android is all about choice." Your license to quote me on things like "Make mine an Android!" is optional and limited to Android-positive references only, though.

 

[Frisco]

..I find a valid and compelling reason exists beyond those for fan behavior: basic excitement from consumer satisfaction.

Yeah, and that "satisfaction" along with the excitement feeling does emanate from person to person, often causing a fad.

The "excitement" part seems to be within a range of hours, maybe a day or two, from the point of sale and does seem to go hand in hand with the satisfaction. User frustration with the learning curve or issues with the device can shorten that whole process, of course.

 

[EarlyMon]

I am sure that there are some folks that feel Apple does not work well...but the retention rate (or fanboyism for some folks) is very high for Apple...and not so good for Android.

I question the validity of any published surveys on this.

Having had my statistical analyses for minority representation demographics studies used by the FCC may lend some small credence to my claim that the ones that I have seen are rubbish, being swamped by by errors in null hypotheses, methodologies, and sampling to be useful at all, as opposed to my rejection being fanboy bias.

 

[EarlyMon]

Yeah, and that "satisfaction" along with the excitement feeling does emanate from person to person, often causing a fad.

100% agree. And sometimes it just leads to good purchase advice.

Give me owners' firsthand forum opinions over expert blogs any day of the week and twice on Tuesday!

The "excitement" part seems to be within a range of hours, maybe a day or two, from the point of sale and does seem to go hand in hand with the satisfaction. User frustration with the learning curve or issues with the device can shorten that whole process, of course.

Bingo!

In addition to all makers needing to up their QA and reliability, they might find a little help and consumer education going a long way. I don't care if we're talking Android, Apple or Microsoft, us forum members everywhere are doing their jobs for them.

 

[EarlyMon]

OIC, I may misread or only skimmed something like this -

Report: iPhone 5 to have plastic/rubberized bezel, aluminum back, come Fall of 2012 | 9to5Mac | Apple Intelligence

I guess some people like aluminum. I find plastic ideal for phone construction, personally.

In addition to being better in my work environment, it gives an elastic target for stresses induced by minor falls, as well as being RF transparent.

To some people, a dress watch or an iP4 style is beautiful design. Not for me. To me, the more a phone is built or presented as a Soviet tractor, the prettier I find it because form must follow function.

One of the most beautiful phones I've seen is the Casio G'zOne Commando.

 

[Thai]

I gotta run...can't post till tomorrow. But, i grew up differently than some of you guys...seriously, phones are not status symbol where i grew up and where i work. I don't know what to say. For me, a status symbol is something that is worth something...something that one works hard to attain.

For the most part, i agree with this: Status symbol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When something is common place and very affordable, that is not a status symbol in my book. It may be "cool" or a fad, but ain't a status symbol to me. That is just me.

As for retention rates, etc., here are a few reading sources:

iPhone best at retaining resale value and offers lowest total cost of ownership

Apple 'Well Ahead' Of Rivals In Brand Loyalty For Smartphones | Redmond Pie (This is iOS vs. Android, not a particular smartphone vs. iPhone)

Come on, you guys talk about Apple apps costing money vs. Android. For anything significant (aka useful, popular), the difference in cost is nothing. Remember, i have both platforms at home. Some of Android apps are porn, spyware, and otherwise junk. Thus, they have a high % of free ones! When it comes to big name games or big name apps, either both cost the same or Android simply does not have them. Despite the large amount of porn and viral apps in Android, the Apple store has way more apps than Android...and the gap is widening (despite Android market shares).

Satisfaction of smartphone owners? Link: iPhone And iOS Top Customer Satisfaction Report [Changewave Research] | iJailbreak.com

So, not only is the iPhone owners satisfied, but they are satisfied with iOS too.

And since lunatic posted that bar graph, i would like to post the WHOLE story to that graph: It’s no fluke – iPhone closes the gap on Android in U.S. — Tech News and Analysis

"Going back to the iOS vs. Android data, it’s still pretty amazing that Apple is competing so well with a limited line-up of devices against an army of Android devices. Now that Apple is cranking on Verizon and has Sprint in the fold, it’s available to the vast majority of consumers. Getting a T-Mobile iPhone, which is actually harder than it sounds, could level the playing field even more, though the effect would be more modest.

Apple is obviously selling a lot of iPhone 4Ses, but Nielsen said that those devices consisted of 57 percent of purchases by new iPhone users. So 43 percent of sales are going to older devices, which is still really impressive. People are willing to buy a phone a year or two old at a discount rather than a new device from a competitor. As NPD pointed out, the iPhone 4S, 4 and 3GS were the top-selling devices in October and November, beating out the Galaxy S II and other Android devices."

 

[Dark Jedi]

Your chart isnt that when the iphone 4s just got released? I would love to see another chart of this taken now with the release of the gal nex. I bet the numbers would be different.

Cant takeva poll when a new highly buzzed item is being launched.

 

[EarlyMon]

Thanks for the reading sources, Thai.

But you may want to check my posts here - http://androidforums.com/lounge/489610-iphone-outselling-all-android-versions-combined.html

So, you'll understand if I'm underwhelmed and will continue to stand by my earlier comments on what's wrong with those numbers and the new ones you've added here.

And your point is what, exactly? If only we tried an iPhone we'd see the light? Or that we can't do that because we can't get over over our fanboy blinkers? Or that your new foray into statistics proves it all? Or that the iPhone just wins, wins, wins? Because really, that's how it sounds.

And as Dr. Richard Feinman used to say - that's not even wrong. (And if you're unfamiliar with the expression, that means that it's so wrong it can't be measured - like, how many gallons in a football game.)

Are you quite done with the status symbol thing? Are we all? Can we move on?

Because it is starting to look that there is a fanboy among us after all, but they're not pushing Android.

By the way, the rest of your post about quality apps vs. porn and so forth is hilarious trolling trolling trolling, but no joy for you today, you can only catch fish when you use the right bait. If that wasn't trolling, then you really never got it about Android - and I'm going to go with the former.

 

[lunatic59]

Your chart isnt that when the iphone 4s just got released? I would love to see another chart of this taken now with the release of the gal nex. I bet the numbers would be different.

Cant takeva poll when a new highly buzzed item is being launched.

Not only that but it was just prior to the G'nex release so there were a lot of people waiting. It just reinforces what Samuel Clemens said best ..."There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

 

[Thai]

Wow, earlymon, did I offend you or something?? I thought that we were having a friendly discussion?! Huh?! I did not think that my post was anything provocative, certainly no more than your previous ones! Geez, lighten up!

As for GN's impact, I doubt it...GN has not sold all that many. Where does it rank among Verizon's phones?? How many bought the overseas GSM version? I would bet that GS2 has a much bigger impact.

 

[EarlyMon]

Your chart isnt that when the iphone 4s just got released? I would love to see another chart of this taken now with the release of the gal nex. I bet the numbers would be different.

Cant takeva poll when a new highly buzzed item is being launched.

Exactly. The only hypothesis that that can be used to measure, if taken with other data, is how new releases affect trends.

Not only that but it was just prior to the G'nex release so there were a lot of people waiting. It just reinforces what Samuel Clemens said best ..."There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Thereby compounding hypothesis errors with methodology errors.

I'm going to go with 86% of all statistics are made up.

Apple's new strategy to have a line of iPhones, perhaps soon to be 4 wide with the iP5 (not counting memory variations) may mark the turnaround where Apple regains its numerical ascendancy over Android and will continue unabated until the Google phone is history.

Or, they will continue to decline with notable perturbations in sales graphs at model releases until they die out.

Or anything in-between.

And anyone with any of those opinions are fine by me.

But if using flawed data like that to make the case, well - yeah. No.

Despite blog opinions, numbers only mean certain things and we can only know what we know, and we can only make projections when we have reliable data.

Right now, the space of what anyone knows on this future trend is miniscule compared to the number of bloggers who think that they know.

Because I care about us consumers, I will say that I am delighted by the competitive landscape we face. Let Google and the Open Handset Alliance partners slug it out with Apple.

Whatever happens, we consumers win. And how cool is that?

 

[Thai]

Isn't you posting that bar graph above equally flawed by your own logic/explanation?????

As for status symbol, it is hilarious that the topic is suddenly close when I post what most people thought as the definition of such...which coincedentally counters what you guys wrote! So, to be more blunt, you guys are wrong in what you wrote above about iPhone being a status symbol. Google fad and google status symbol. Google makes great search engines for sure!

 

[lunatic59]

Exactly. The only hypothesis that that can be used to measure, if taken with other data, is how new releases affect trends.



Thereby compounding hypothesis errors with methodology errors.

I'm going to go with 86% of all statistics are made up.

I believe the current figure as of February 29th is 87.342% factored for leap year and adjusted for left handed statisticians of Turkish descent.

Apple's new strategy to have a line of iPhones, perhaps soon to be 4 wide with the iP5 (not counting memory variations) may mark the turnaround where Apple regains its numerical ascendancy over Android and will continue unabated until the Google phone is history.

Or, they will continue to decline with notable perturbations in sales graphs at model releases until they die out.

Or anything in-between.

And anyone with any of those opinions are fine by me.

But if using flawed data like that to make the case, well - yeah. No.

It's all moot, EM. in December Mayan statistics show we will all be gone.

 

[lunatic59]

Isn't you posting that bar graph above equally flawed by your own logic/explanation?????

Of course it is. Narrowly applied data in an overall statistical analysis is poor methodology. All you can really hope to achieve is a reasonable delta. No absolutes will ever be determined by statistics. None.

As for status symbol, it is hilarious that the topic is suddenly close when I post what most people thought as the definition of such...which coincedentally counters what you guys wrote! So, to be more blunt, you guys are wrong in what you wrote a out iPhone being a status symbol. Google fad and google status symbol. Google makes great search engines for sure!

Sorry Thai, but you are committing a gross logical fallacy by criticizing the arguers than the argument. You cannot define what you believe to be true as true and then use that as proof of argument. You can also not speak as to what most people believe. That is an assumption. You can state what you believe and I can disagree. But, even if we use your Wikipedia definition of status symbol

A status symbol is a perceived visible, external denotation of one's social position and perceived indicator of economic or social status.

Nothing I have said contradicts that. They go on to show some examples of what might be considered a status symbol, but they never said the list was absolute and they also explain that while cost may be a factor, it is not the definitive property of a status symbol. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Thai]

Of course it is. Narrowly applied data in an overall statistical analysis is poor methodology. All you can really hope to achieve is a reasonable delta. No absolutes will ever be determined by statistics. None.

So, a case of the pot calling the kettle black?




Btw I miss my laptop when typing these posts!!

 

[EarlyMon]

Isn't you posting that bar graph above equally flawed by your own logic/explanation?????

As for status symbol, it is hilarious that the topic is suddenly close when I post what most people thought as the definition of such...which coincedentally counters what you guys wrote! So, to be more blunt, you guys are wrong in what you wrote a out iPhone being a status symbol. Google fad and google status symbol. Google makes great search engines for sure!

Let's be fair - I personally called for the end to the status discussion. At no time have I ever taken the position of the iPhone being a status symbol. Like you, I don't go there and I don't get it. So, even though the discussion came up, and many interesting views on status symbolism came up, I was asking _everyone_ if we were done now.

If you are referring to the bar graphics in the thread that I referred to, you bet.

Please note that I tore up many of the Android statistical claims there as well. I simply used my torn-up Android figures to attack one blog at first, and then raised the Neilson graphic, along with notes, to close my remarks in that thread with the same claim that I made above - we can only know what we know and the data are incomplete.

If you swapped the graph labels between the Google and Apple products, my criticisms would still be identical, we don't know yet. It's a math thing.

 

[lunatic59]

So, a case of the pot calling the kettle black?




Btw I miss my laptop when typing these posts!!

As long as I can be the kettle. Pot get's me in trouble.