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Liberals: Paying Taxes in America is VOLUNTARY
- Thread starter FreakyLocz14
- Start date
noah way
Android Enthusiast
Laws that benefit the rich exclusively (e.g., Bush tax cuts, Hummer Tax Loophole, 2nd home deduction for yachts, low tax rates on capital gains and dividends, etc., etc.) are NOT available to everyone.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
I just love the hating on rich people.
Not really "hating" on anyone. Just stating the facts, the rich do have more control over how much they owe in taxes. If anything, the OP is hating. Why? It is not the "liberals" that say it is voluntary. It is the IRS that poorly chose the terminology.
not true. again anyone can buy those items and use the laws
the bush tax cuts lowered taxes for everyone who was already paying taxes
it did not affect come people because they dont pay anyway
noah way
Android Enthusiast
Since not everyone can buy those items, not everyone can benefit from those laws.
Can you afford to buy a yacht? Then you can't get a tax break on it as a second home. The law that gives the rich a tax deduction for owning a yacht does not apply to you.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
Those damn rich people!!! All evil.
Anyway, all I know is every year tax protesters claim taxes are voluntary. And every year they get their wages garnished, property taken away and/or find their asses in jail for standing up for their claim. It doesn't have a lot of legal validity.
Wow. Just wow.
Ok.
Taxes are voluntary as stated before. Why, because you can change the taxes if you want to. For example, you can elect officials to get rid of the taxes, if you want to.
If you volunteer for the us army? Do you get to the point where people are shooting at you and say, I did not volunteer for this? Do you get to run away, after you agreed to the terms? If you don't want to pay taxes, have the law changes, remember a system by the people for the people?
In some countries, you are forced to pay taxes, literally set in the constitution of that country that you pay taxes. You can not change or the tax code.
In the usa, we agree, by being citizens that we pay taxes. We volunteered to pay taxes. We use laws to enforce everyone to pay the equal share.
Bottom line.
You do not have to live in this country, it is not required to breathe. Once you volunteer to live in this country, you are required to follow the laws, which you have the ability to change at any point. You can get rid of the taxes, if you choose to. When you pay taxes, you volunteer to pay them, if you don't want to pay them, change the laws.
For example, abortion, your taxes can not be used for abortion. The laws was written so you would not fund abortions. You can change the law back to support abortions if you want to.
For example, stem cell research. At one point in time, taxes could not pay for stem cell research, now they can on a very limited basis.
People protested the use, laws where changed. If you do not want to fund the military or welfare, then protest it, change the laws.
But taxes are voluntarily, if you want want to pay them, you don't have to live in this country. You cant change the rules in mid game with out getting everyone that plays the rules, to agree on the new rules.
Conservatives want us to play for religious school and war, but we can not pay for welfare, what the heck is up with that?
Ok.
Taxes are voluntary as stated before. Why, because you can change the taxes if you want to. For example, you can elect officials to get rid of the taxes, if you want to.
If you volunteer for the us army? Do you get to the point where people are shooting at you and say, I did not volunteer for this? Do you get to run away, after you agreed to the terms? If you don't want to pay taxes, have the law changes, remember a system by the people for the people?
In some countries, you are forced to pay taxes, literally set in the constitution of that country that you pay taxes. You can not change or the tax code.
In the usa, we agree, by being citizens that we pay taxes. We volunteered to pay taxes. We use laws to enforce everyone to pay the equal share.
Bottom line.
You do not have to live in this country, it is not required to breathe. Once you volunteer to live in this country, you are required to follow the laws, which you have the ability to change at any point. You can get rid of the taxes, if you choose to. When you pay taxes, you volunteer to pay them, if you don't want to pay them, change the laws.
For example, abortion, your taxes can not be used for abortion. The laws was written so you would not fund abortions. You can change the law back to support abortions if you want to.
For example, stem cell research. At one point in time, taxes could not pay for stem cell research, now they can on a very limited basis.
People protested the use, laws where changed. If you do not want to fund the military or welfare, then protest it, change the laws.
But taxes are voluntarily, if you want want to pay them, you don't have to live in this country. You cant change the rules in mid game with out getting everyone that plays the rules, to agree on the new rules.
Conservatives want us to play for religious school and war, but we can not pay for welfare, what the heck is up with that?
noah way
Android Enthusiast
You want to know how voluntary taxes are?
I filed my business return on March 15, as required (personal returns are due April 15). As always I sent it certified mail and kept the postmarked receipt.
One month later I received a penalty of $195 for "late filing". Enclosed was a guide for disputing the assessment, which I used to draft a letter stating my case. I also sent a copy of the tax return with postmarked certified mail receipt.
Today I received a "Notice of Levy" via certified mail stating that I had about 10 days to pay $195.75 (the $.75 is interest) or my assets would be seized.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
Taxes aren't voluntary. At least not according to the courts.
So what you are saying is this.
I enter into a contract with another entity. As soon as the entity screws up in any which, way, or form, I am allowed to completely dissolve myself of that contract, but still expect the use of the full services from the entity. Did I get it right?
You can fix your problem in about 3 days.
1.) Call the irs, request a TAS meeting with an adjustor.
2.) Show up at the meeting with the mail receipt and tax papers to the meeting.
3.) Request the charges be changed.
Next time file your taxes electronically. I can not help you against the corrupt goverment.
But if you don't want to pay those taxes, get out of the contract that makes you pay the taxes. Ban together and force the government to not tax you. You can do it.
But you also can not volunteer for military service, then run away when the fighting starts. That will get you jail time.
Volunteer does not mean you do what you want. Volunteer means you are free to commit yourself to the cause, but once you commit, you are not free to make up your own rules. If you agree to the game, you agree to the rules.
noah way
Android Enthusiast
Nope.
The requirement to file an income tax return is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in sections 6011(a), 6012(a), et seq., and 6072(a). See also Treas. Reg.
Once again, don't confuse the act of paying with the ability to change the system.
You are trying to argue that voluntary means you can ignore the rules of a contract, after you already agreed to the contract, you can not do that. You can change the contract, by changing the laws around the contract, but you can not change the contract by ignoring the laws.
Here is the difference. You volunteer to pay taxes in the united states, no one is forcing you to do so. By volunteering to do so you agree to follow the laws.
You have to follow the laws, if you work in the united states you have to pay taxes, period. But you can change the rules in how and why you pay taxes.
See the difference?
Ok...
One last time.
Involuntary taxes- Taxes that are forced on you with out your permission, input, or any return to you as in service. They take your money and give you nothing in return.
Voluntary taxes- Taxes in which you agree to pay in return for the ability to change the tax laws, have input into, and dictate what the return of service is.
In the video, they state welfare. In involuntary taxes, you can not dictate not to pay taxes to welfare, the taxes go to what ever a 3rd party wants them to, with out your consent.
In a voluntary tax, you have 100% control, by the way of elected officials on what is taxed, how much is taxed, and what it goes to. For example, tax payer money can not be used for abortions or new stem cells. In a involuntary system, that is impossible.
We all agreed to pay taxes, that was voluntary. You now paying the taxes is not. You have to hold up the end of your contract, but with the knowledge you can change the contract, by the ballot.
You are trying to argue that voluntary means you can ignore the rules of a contract, after you already agreed to the contract, you can not do that. You can change the contract, by changing the laws around the contract, but you can not change the contract by ignoring the laws.
Here is the difference. You volunteer to pay taxes in the united states, no one is forcing you to do so. By volunteering to do so you agree to follow the laws.
You have to follow the laws, if you work in the united states you have to pay taxes, period. But you can change the rules in how and why you pay taxes.
See the difference?
Ok...
One last time.
Involuntary taxes- Taxes that are forced on you with out your permission, input, or any return to you as in service. They take your money and give you nothing in return.
Voluntary taxes- Taxes in which you agree to pay in return for the ability to change the tax laws, have input into, and dictate what the return of service is.
In the video, they state welfare. In involuntary taxes, you can not dictate not to pay taxes to welfare, the taxes go to what ever a 3rd party wants them to, with out your consent.
In a voluntary tax, you have 100% control, by the way of elected officials on what is taxed, how much is taxed, and what it goes to. For example, tax payer money can not be used for abortions or new stem cells. In a involuntary system, that is impossible.
We all agreed to pay taxes, that was voluntary. You now paying the taxes is not. You have to hold up the end of your contract, but with the knowledge you can change the contract, by the ballot.
We can't change tax laws popularly. Congress has to do that. And what if one doesn't agree with our form of government? How did they agree to this "contract" that you speak of. I don't recall signing any piece of paper stating that agree to the IRS tax code.
Even in European nations, in which Senator Reid states have an involuntary system, the people elect Members of Parliament that can change tax laws. Would you argue that Mr. Reid is wrong and that those countries also have an voluntary system?
Again, I am not hating on the rich. In fact, many of the poor would say I am "rich", but I am middle class.
noah way
Android Enthusiast
I'm not, and I don't have any ability to change the system. I'm supposedly paying into a system to
"provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity"
but this is largely NOT the case and there is nothing I can do to change it. In theory of course "we" can "vote", in reality that vote means nothing.
the vote means as much as you think it means
band together with like minded people.
start a movement.
the tea party has done this in some areas with results
libertarians have done it
One more time around this tree. GE and oil companies made 100's of billions of dollars last year, but never paid a dime in tax. If you can not change the system, why aren't they paying?
I already told you about 4 different times where how tax money is used was changed by laws.
When you agree to live in this country you signed the contract. If you dont like it get out.
LASTLY, you can vote and becoming a political voice if you want to. You can change the laws. If you choose not to, then that is your problem.
Reid was trapped, which was the point of the video. In some countries, the tax is automatic, much like the gas tax or value added tax. You have no choose in paying it and zero voice on how it is spent.
But in your system, you can create a ballot that will block federal taxes, you can get it signed into law and even create a constitutional amendment to block it. You can not do that in some countries.
PS. This is not personal, I am not yelling or being mean, just stating facts.
noah way
Android Enthusiast
This is an absurd statement. If I could change the system they would be paying. They use their financial power to change the system to benefit themselves. Money is the real power, not votes. At least until money is removed from politics, which it won't be as long as politicians and the corporations (i.e. the wealthy) who fund them to benefit themselves are running things.
Great in theory, horrible in practice.
I do vote, but I can't change laws. Laws can be changed by politicians (whether I vote for them or not) and by the courts (whether or not I can afford to pursue such a challenge). The fact remains that politicians serve those who pay them *before* they serve those who vote for them. The average sitting congressman has to raise $10,000 per week for their entire term in office to mount a re-election campaign. Where is that money coming from, and what strings are attached to it?
I can count on zero fingers the number of people I've voted for who have been elected and actually did - or even tried to do - what they said they were going to do.
I've also done far more than vote, having been a political activist in my own community. Based on those experiences, and the greed and corruption evident just at the local level, I'm not willing to, nor can I afford - either mentally or financially - to devote my life to changing a system that is intent on maintaining its own status quo.
In any event, the fact remains that TAXES ARE NOT VOLUNTARY. If you still can't swallow this, or wish to keep quibbling about semantics, see the court cases cited above.
Vihzel
Destroying Balls Everyday
From IRS:
Some taxpayers assert that they are not required to file federal tax returns because the filing of a tax return is voluntary. Proponents point to the fact that the IRS itself tells taxpayers in the Form 1040 instruction book that the tax system is voluntary. Additionally, the Supreme Court’s opinion in Flora v. United States, 362 U.S. 145, 176 (1960), is often quoted for the proposition that "[o]ur system of taxation is based upon voluntary assessment and payment, not upon distraint."
The Law: The word “voluntary,” as used in Flora and in IRS publications, refers to our system of allowing taxpayers initially to determine the correct amount of tax and complete the appropriate returns, rather than have the government determine tax for them from the outset. The requirement to file an income tax return is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in sections 6011(a), 6012(a), et seq., and 6072(a). See also Treas. Reg.
Some taxpayers assert that they are not required to file federal tax returns because the filing of a tax return is voluntary. Proponents point to the fact that the IRS itself tells taxpayers in the Form 1040 instruction book that the tax system is voluntary. Additionally, the Supreme Court’s opinion in Flora v. United States, 362 U.S. 145, 176 (1960), is often quoted for the proposition that "[o]ur system of taxation is based upon voluntary assessment and payment, not upon distraint."
The Law: The word “voluntary,” as used in Flora and in IRS publications, refers to our system of allowing taxpayers initially to determine the correct amount of tax and complete the appropriate returns, rather than have the government determine tax for them from the outset. The requirement to file an income tax return is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in sections 6011(a), 6012(a), et seq., and 6072(a). See also Treas. Reg.
noah way
Android Enthusiast
The tea party was started by former house speaker Dick Armey and funded by the Koch Brothers.
In other words it is the illusion of a grass-routes movement that was initiated by Washington insiders and funded with corporate money.
FreedomWorks Tea Party
FreedomWorks Chairman Dick Armey
Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity
and for every thig they fund you have george sors funding the other side
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=977
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
It doesn't matter what people interpret it to mean. What matters is the legal interpretation. People can quibble about what it should mean or what it means to them or what they think it means all day long. At the end of the day, what matters is what the courts decide.