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Luxuries? Yes or No?

I agree with Rose...Entitlement is a strange word choice. In the United States, you are entitled to certain things like life, and liberty, pursuit of happiness. Entitlements really diminish after you become 18 yrs old. You are not even entitled to food, shelter, and clothing as an adult even though there may be programs that provide these "necessities".

All that said, I think this is a question of Luxury vs. Necessity. Anything related to things like cell phones are not necessary to sustain life and thus by most accounts...luxury items. You could argue that they are necessities for maintaining you work, personal life, or even perhaps your safety (smartphone is overkill for this...but you get the point :))
 
I see where the use of the word entitlement comes into play. The situation that kicked this whole debate
off involved someone who had already purchased their smartphone. The discussion was not whether or not texting was necessary, it actually became should they not have to pay and get it for free just because they have the phone. They literally felt they deserved a free way to text because they already have the phone. That is pretty much a dictionary example of the use of the word.

I agree that all three are luxuries. If you have the resources to afford the phone you should have also taken into account what it would take for the rest. Complaining after the fact only shows a lack of research and forethought.
 
Google made that possible with the Google Voice. You just need to pay for the data plan ;)

Yeah, this is true on Android. However it became more of a blanket discussion. What about quick messaging phones which have unlimited data and still require texting? What about other Operating Systems?

Does the fact that you have a smart phone (or quick messaging phone) with a data plan entitle you to free texting or is that just a luxury that you pay extra for? I stand by the belief that is is an extra (unnecessary) feature that incurs cost. A luxury.
 
Yeah, this is true on Android. However it became more of a blanket discussion. What about quick messaging phones which have unlimited data and still require texting? What about other Operating Systems?

Does the fact that you have a smart phone (or quick messaging phone) with a data plan entitle you to free texting or is that just a luxury that you pay extra for? I stand by the belief that is is an extra (unnecessary) feature that incurs cost. A luxury.
I don't disagree with you on that, I was just pointing that it is possible ;) I have no experience with any other OS and cannot comment on it :P

Anything that you do not need for your survival is not required and is in most cases a luxury.
 
Luxuries to some can become necessities to others. While many of us view things as a luxury item before or even when we get it, the argument can be made that after having it for a period of time our life can be altered to make it a necessity to a certain extent. While it is not on the same level as the basic necessities of food, water and shelter it could be argued that some things could be on the same level as clothing as far as necessities go. Will you die without clothing (of embarrassment doesn't count;))? Only if you are in a very cold climate and even then you could just stay indoors, but many would list clothing as a necessity in their lives because socially and in many cases legally clothing has become a necessity. I know that for me it was not a necessity when I purchased an Android, but after a few weeks it certainly become a huge part of my life. Necessity? Probably not, but I'd never say never.

That said, in the context that the OP is talking about it is not and people who think they are entitled to something like a data plan or texting probably think they should receive free stuff from others all time too. I imagine the guy I saw putting away his iPhone so he could pay for his groceries in food stamps would see things that way.:rolleyes:
 
I have a different bent on this one, CT53, and my opinion is built in parts, drawing upon examples to best illustrate.

Part 1 - the net.

Recently, a panel including an FCC commissioner visited our fair city to hear from special interest groups and just plain folks on the subject of net neutrality.

I was particularly moved by one mom from one of our poorest neighborhoods who was proud that she could afford the $68/mon for access - but - very worried that without net neutrality, her access bill could rise above her means.

Is the net a luxury in this day and age?

One of things that our local school system has gone to is preferred communications by email and the web. If you're going to be late, if you're going to be absent and need to get assignments or turn one in - you use email first and foremost.

While we make various arguments about in my day and the net is a luxury - the practical truth here, in my opinion, is that disadvantaged children can grow up without a real competitive chance in a number of tomorrow's job markets, when so many of their peers have every opportunity to socialize and learn the tricks and the tools, if they lack access to reasonably-priced broadband services. (I'm not a bleeding heart - I'm practical. And dial-up isn't as good or even an alternative - in her neighborhood, the telephone infrastructure and wiring is not top-notch and error free, so dial-up isn't a matter of just slower. I know. I have a friend in that area that I worked with the phone company for three months to get her lines square for dial-up, and re-wired their house myself as a buddy -- so their kids could basic dial-up access and that was a decade ago.)

So - from a certain point of view, open to argument, perhaps the net itself is further from luxury than before. In her shoes, we'd make the same tough choices she's making, and every individual may feel differently. But I would submit that her drive to give her kids what they need to not live in poverty is a necessity from her point of view.

Part 2 - the phone.

You didn't question phones - you questioned smartphones - but let's just start at the basics.

Every parent rightfully dreads the possibility of getting an emergency call concerning their kid or a close family member. The only thing worse is being unreachable.

For those whose employment does not give them access to a phone - and there's a lot of those jobs, the cheap cell phone is a godsend. At today's pace, most would consider it a necessity. If too poor, a necessity to be sacrificed if absolutely required. But I would submit that children in poorer neighborhoods are more likely to come into harm's way than their better-off peers. You could try to tell a parent in those shoes, who's either received those calls or comforted her neighbor who has, that that cheap cell phone is not a necessity, but I'd suspect they'd look at you like you were from Mars. For many of them, it's the lifeline to the only stable thing they can count on in life - their family.

Part 3 - parenting.

3a. Do you know where your kids are? In concert with my Part 2, a parent carrying a cell phone gives a kid no excuse not to keep in touch.

3b. Do you know when your kids are surfing the net so you can control their behavior? Hand in glove with Part 1.

3c. Can you relate to your kids effectively to maintain guidance in _their_ view of the world.

Part 4 - putting together the hypothesis.

4a. The cheapest cell phone plan I could find on the net was $10/month and 25 cents/minute, all calls. Next, $20/month for 500 minutes, next the ever-popular and ubiquitous $30 plans.

4b. In this single example, one person pays $68/mo for broadband.

4c. From my quick on-line shopping sessions, and I can't claim I waded through all of the bait and switch windows correctly (thanks, carriers!), but I believe that with good data plans and pay-the-carrier-for-tethering (where available) the price seemed to round out at $100, up to $110 for a Sprint 4G (69.99+10+29.99hotspot). If we step outside of utopia, and just frankly admit that a lot of people use PDANet, for example, then unlimited data with tethering can be had for $70/month.

~~~~

Question - at $70 to $100/month (depending on reality or fully-legal choice), that parent gets a cell phone and broadband for the home PC. About the same that she pays for those things now while distributed across separate services. But for this, she also gets:

  • More minutes, unlimited data
  • Unconditional control of when her kids are using the internet (physical control of her phone)
  • More savvy of net activities without hassling the PC herself, better to relate to her kids
  • A digital camera and digital movie camera (upload to YouTube is free, after all)
  • Texting and her own easy to use Gmail
  • GPS for 911 calls

~~~~

So - there may be some holes in my setup, but I did my best.

Water and lights aren't luxuries, and therefore aren't automatically entitlements - they're necessities.


So let's go to the root of the question: luxury.

Under the scenario I laid out is a smartphone still a luxury, or can it be used as an effective technology-convergence tool to allow families to force-multiply their budgets for services they consider necessities or near-necessities?

I've created a hypothetical where the answer comes out that a smartphone need not be considered a luxury at all.

(I'll accept without arguing all criticism of the things I got wrong, like why doesn't she use a mobile broadband dongle, etc, not convenient to my case. ;) )

Like so many things in life, this one wasn't as clear cut and dried for me as it once was.

And like so many of the interesting questions that occur in our digital lives now, where it's nearly 2011 and we're not in Kansas anymore, here's my answer to the question:

Is a smartphone with text and unlimited data a luxury?

My answer is that this depends entirely upon the circumstance of the individual.

I think that below the surface, this issue may not be as obvious as it seems at first glance.

Can't wait for feedback on this one!
 
I completely agree about the competing and everything. And needing to be up to date in todays world.

Before just plain old calling was amazing and everyone loved it and did it all the time.
Now we have texting and everyone does it and hardly ever calls anyone anymore. Also we now have email and internet on our phone so you can pretty much do what you want on a computer without being home.

As time goes on and things become new and people become accustomed to them I think the Luxury aspect might fade away. I couldn't go more than one day without my smartphone/texting because I love it and feel I need it but I still believe it is a Luxury.

I will concede that I think since texting is becoming accustomed that it is slowly fading from being a luxury. But as long as there is a down grade it will still be considered a luxury I believe.
And even if texting was no longer a luxury you would still have to pay for it. Phone carriers will never give away what will make them loads of money.
 
EarlyMon has come up with a basic but interesting cost analysis that shows that a smartphone can be the least cost option for someone requiring multiple services.

The internet itself is much less luxury are much more utility along with water/electricity etc for all of the reasons quoted above.
 
Widespread use does not make something a necessity.

You want to know what a necessity is...assume $1000 monthly income (single parent with minimum wage job...and for a minute assume that there is no additional help from the government).

@ $1000/month, you would ONLY be able to pay for necessities. Would a cell phone fit into that equation? No. Forget data plans, internet, texting, mobile hotspot, or even dial up. A Christmas gift Trackphone for use in emergency situations would even come with the burden of upping the minutes AT LEAST once a year because the pre-paid minutes expire even if you don't use them.

Electricity is more of a "necessity" in my eyes because my income affords me more than that of our example single parent. If that parent feels that they MUST have electricity (essential for most people but not necessarily essential for survival), I bet the single parent would be more conscious of leaving lights on, thermostat setting, etc. Someone argued that clothing is not necessary to survival and for the most part I agree...but new clothing for the sake of having new clothing...not a necessity.

Talk about "entitlement" is just silly IMO. You sign a contract that says YOU HAVE TO PAY EXTRA to use extra features. If you go with another carrier that includes unlimited texting, then you would have free texting but would not be "entitled" to use that carrier's data (2G, 3G, or 4G...). As mobile data becomes more widespread, there will be more affordable options but never will it be a necessity or an entitlement.

Widespread use = business opportunities. In walks Boost Mobile and every other second rate phone carrier that piggy backs off the "real" cell phone provider's networks. Service is worse in most cases, but more services are provided for a lesser amount. You will see more data enabled devices with cheaper rates on these types of carriers as use increases because many people cannot afford $150/month, but may be able to afford $100/month and want the same types of services. The trade-off is obviously the quality of those services.

Many people are not wanting to pay for Verizon service but want many of the same services so they go to Sprint, or T-Mobile because they become better options (AT&T...I just don't get how people choose them...Verizon prices and T-mobile service...but that's a different discussion). But as competition heats up (i.e. market gets bigger) the price cutting begins.

I would have a tough time without my phones but I would live. If Verizon's network goes down, no one is going to die (unless they off themselves because they can't access facebook every 2 minutes and they cannot handle the isolation :D).

I'm as much of a gadget nut as everyone else on here...but let's be realistic about things. I want to give my kids my old Droid's when my wife and I update our phones but it is a gross example of luxury (especially considering they are 6 and 9 year old kids.
 
Life is a luxury.

The only things that are not luxuries are: food, water, shelter. Everything else beyond that are luxuries.
 
A quote I have heard and believe that works great with this conversation.

"The only thing you are Guaranteed at Birth is Death. You have the Right to that and the rest is EARNED."
 
Well I am a bit late to the party in this one... but, OfTheDamned and EarlyMon phrased this very well.

Just because something is not a necessity to survival does not mean it is not a necessity to success.

I have used a lot of different cell phones either mine or a friends (when it comes to smartphones mostly friends who let me toy around).

I even play around in linux not because I need to but, because I like knowing whats out there picking up different things and seeing how they all play together.

When people make various complaints about android being "unpredictable" in terms of controls, I write this off because, I'm so use to dealing with different phone's different computers, different video games, different consoles.

Adaptability is a part of life.

The more you toy around with different things, the easier it is to figure out new devices when they come your way.

Email is a part of the modern world. It *IS* a necessity if your going to go anywhere in life outside of manual labor. WAIT NO even in the retail industry good luck WALKING into a job and filling out an application in store. Odds are your going to be pointed to the website, or the store computer to apply. And guess what... corporate email happens.

I attend school. All of you talking about how "if your job needs you to have a cell phone they better provide it!" factor out students who are already dirt poor from tuition cost.

I still don't have a data plan and I still don't have a smart phone. Since everyone at my school communicates by email. Guess what this means I am going to be doing next semester when I have my first group project.

I'm going to have to check my email before I leave and hope my group didn't send me one on the way to my car right before I drive an hour home.

This means when I'm not at school, I get to check my computer 5 or 6 times a day just to make sure nothing comes up.

Now.. lucky for me I do have text. Hopefully whoever else is in my group will have it as well. However, guess what.. if someone doesn't have a cell phone in my group.. that means I'm stuck checking email.

I don't fault anyone for doing this.. but, good luck getting someone to actually call you in this day and age.

The reason text is so popular isn't because its less "personal" (I don't care what anyone says on the news).

Texting is popular because, while I am playing left 4 dead 2. I can just check my phone see what my girlfriend wants and respond when i get a chance.

It means while I am in class, I don't have to wait until I am out of class dial my voice mailbox and listen to 3 different messages. One from my mom asking me to pick up milk on the way home, One from my girlfriend, telling me she wants to go skating this sunday, and one from another random friend just wanting to grab lunch.

Then turn around and call all 3 of them. Wait on their voice box, tell them "ok" and then, do this all again after my next class.

I will admit texting is more impersonal than voice thats why I skype my girlfriend if I'm not doing anything else. However, for day to day usage it allows me to actually keep track of my friends.

And now that data plans are becoming more and more popular more and more of my friends are leaving the laptop at home.

Why? you can receive the emails from your group/teacher in real time. You can schedule your classes from your phone and view whatever info you need.

This means your not towing 15 pounds of books + a laptop around because, you know the line to get a computer in the library or comp lab is gunna be too long just to check email and weather.

Some people view smartphones are expensive toys or status symbols. Hell, I would say that more people consider phone's status symbols than those who don't.

Not here on Android Forums maybe.. but, in the real world they are definitely a "hey, look at me" ordeal.

So no.. they are not necessities in the most dire of interpretations of necessity.

Nor are they something I believe should just be given out for free or anything like that.

However, everyone in this forum has higher expectations for their life and hopefully their childrens lives than "just getting by" in the direst sense of the word.
 
I know plenty of extremely successful people(talking millions here folks) who don't even know how to use a computer, let alone a smartphone.
 
Just because something is not a necessity to survival does not mean it is not a necessity to success.

Despite the fact that I stick to my position that these devices are still "luxuries", in a business sense I could not agree with you more.

I actually feel that schools (College, High school, Middle school, and even possibly Elementary schools) should teach courses on the use of these devices. If you want to be successful in business, knowing how to use smartphones and to EFFECTIVELY COMMUNICATE with those devices is essential in business life.

Look at the generation that is preparing for retirement now. It is "hit or miss" as to weather or not many of them can use the current technology. That will NOT be the case to the same extent for my generation. My kids are getting the Coby Kyros tablets this year for Christmas. Is this a luxury...you bet ya! Do I feel that it is educational as well...ABSOLUTELY. I already have Google Voice numbers for them ready to go!

Why? Because I wan't my kids to not have the technology hurdles that many will face in life. I want them to be able to maintain an email account, which anyone who receives 50-100 (or more) emails per/day knows...can be a task in itself! I want them to understand how to text, how to email, upload attachments, find the appropriate programs for attachments they receive, etc. This information is imperative in most business settings even if it is not a necessity to life. Will they be able to learn it? Yes, because this technology comes with all the entertainment capabilities as well! Make it fun and they will learn how to use it.

Now the only chore is MONITORING what they do. But that's not too big of a task...I'm a big tech nerd and I know how to use technology to my advantage (which is what I want them to be able to do) ;)
 
Despite the fact that I stick to my position that these devices are still "luxuries", in a business sense I could not agree with you more.

I actually feel that schools (College, High school, Middle school, and even possibly Elementary schools) should teach courses on the use of these devices. If you want to be successful in business, knowing how to use smartphones and to EFFECTIVELY COMMUNICATE with those devices is essential in business life.

Look at the generation that is preparing for retirement now. It is "hit or miss" as to weather or not many of them can use the current technology. That will NOT be the case to the same extent for my generation. My kids are getting the Coby Kyros tablets this year for Christmas. Is this a luxury...you bet ya! Do I feel that it is educational as well...ABSOLUTELY. I already have Google Voice numbers for them ready to go!

If I read that correctly, you said that:
  • Having these skills is essential in business life to effectively communicate
  • Obtaining these skills requires education and training (in school or at home)
  • The only class of devices capable of completing that skills-education essential to getting ahead is - a luxury

Either there's a contradiction there or I just didn't follow something.

Doubting the contradiction, please help me understand your position.
 
If I read that correctly, you said that:
  • Having these skills is essential in business life to effectively communicate
  • Obtaining these skills requires education and training (in school or at home)
  • The only class of devices capable of completing that skills-education essential to getting ahead is - a luxury
Either there's a contradiction there or I just didn't follow something.Doubting the contradiction, please help me understand your position.
No, its a contradiction of sorts...you read that right. College is essential to long term success in your career (in most cases) but college is not essential to have a career. We teach algebra in school but only basic math skills are essential for every day life for both personal and business life. I know people that are not computer savvy but are successful. Should we not teach computer classes because not everyone will need those skills? if you went to an interview and the employer says that every employee is issued a smartphone and asks if you know how to operate one?. Would you like to have the knowledge to operate the device or would you rather say "No, I have no idea how to work one."

May seem funny to people here but there are people that wouldn't have the first clue what to do with a device like the one's we have come to rely on. I can think of several people under 30 that would have issues just checking and replying to an email on a phone.

So to the original question...luxury or necessity (er...entitlement)? Its still a luxury. But they are important to many of us. A nice suit is a luxury right? May help in getting a new job though...

Bottom line:

Important? Yes
Necessity? No
 
Absolutely all 3 are luxuries. You may need them for business, but that's really a different can of worms. Besides, if it's a business need, then it isn't costing you out of pocket, and I believe a luxury is something that you pay for but don't need. And in personal life, it might be very nice to always be connected and have the internet in your pocket, but you can live without it. At least we used to live without it 10+ years ago!
 
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