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Malaysia Airlines tragedies

One thing that should be obvious is that the pro-Russian separatists had no motive for deliberately downing a civilian airliner. But, since they and their civilian support base were (and are) under attack from both air and land forces of the regime in Kiev, they may, presuming they actually had captured one of the regime's Buk missile systems and knew how to use it, have shot it down thinking that it was a Ukrainian military plane, in which case it was an unfortunate accident.

However, it has not been explained why the plane was rerouted, presumably by Kiev air traffic control, substantially South from its original route to one that took it right over the the area where separatists had already shot down several Ukrainian military aircraft! It can't be ruled out that it was rerouted intentionally to create an excuse for precisely the kind of anti-Russian reaction that it has indeed been used for. Nor can it be ruled out that the separatists shot a missile that couldn't reach that plane and that a Ukrainian plane shown to have been close to the downed plane actually finished the job.

It might be useful, before blaming Russia, to read the Russian arguments that counter the anti-Russian propaganda offensive coming from the West, and particularly from the U.S. and, of course, from the regime in Kiev that has been using neo-Nazi volunteers, rather than unreliable regular troops, in its attempt to crush the separatists. Those arguments can be found, among other places, on RT.com.
 
Ladies and gentlemen, I shouldn't have to remind you that the Site Rules are VERY clear that members should remain polite and respectful of others. However I am, so that there is no element of doubt.

presuming they actually had captured one of the regime's Buk missile systems and knew how to use it, have shot it down thinking that it was a Ukrainian military plane, in which case it was an unfortunate accident.

Targeting a non-hostile bogey at A33 would not fall into the "unfortunate accident" category I'm afraid, regardless of who pressed the button.

However, it has not been explained why the plane was rerouted, presumably by Kiev air traffic control, substantially South from its original route to one that took it right over the the area where separatists had already shot down several Ukrainian military aircraft!
Do you have a source for that infomation, as afaia the only alteration to the filed flight plan instructed by ATC was a cruising alt. of A33 instead of the planned A35. This was still in unrestricted airspace, and indeed at least two other aircraft, from Air india and Singapore Airlines, were within 25km of MH17 when contact was lost with the latter.

Nor can it be ruled out that the separatists shot a missile that couldn't reach that plane and that a Ukrainian plane shown to have been close to the downed plane actually finished the job.
According to available info from investigators, the damage to the aircraft wreckage is consistent with that from shrapnel caused by surface-to-air missiles. This is markedly different to that caused by air-to-air missiles, which due to size constraints employ very different warheads.

It might be useful, before blaming Russia, to read the Russian arguments that counter the anti-Russian propaganda offensive coming from the West [...]
Such discussion is appropriate in the Politics & Current Affairs forum, but not here. This topic should remain focused on fact out of respect to those who lost their lives needlessly.
 
Ladies and gentlemen, I shouldn't have to remind you that the Site Rules are VERY clear that members should remain polite and respectful of others. However I am, so that there is no element of doubt.

Targeting a non-hostile bogey at A33 would not fall into the "unfortunate accident" category I'm afraid, regardless of who pressed the button.

Do you have a source for that infomation, as afaia the only alteration to the filed flight plan instructed by ATC was a cruising alt. of A33 instead of the planned A35. This was still in unrestricted airspace, and indeed at least two other aircraft, from Air india and Singapore Airlines, were within 25km of MH17 when contact was lost with the latter.

According to available info from investigators, the damage to the aircraft wreckage is consistent with that from shrapnel caused by surface-to-air missiles. This is markedly different to that caused by air-to-air missiles, which due to size constraints employ very different warheads.

Such discussion is appropriate in the Politics & Current Affairs forum, but not here. This topic should remain focused on fact out of respect to those who lost their lives needlessly.

The above is what I see when I quote the post by slug in order to reply to it. What I don't see is slug's quotes from me that he is replying to. Also, I don't see a 'Cancel' button to allow me to postpone my reply until i get this technical issue with quotes within quotes resolved.
 
The above is what I see when I quote the post by slug in order to reply to it. What I don't see is slug's quotes from me that he is replying to. Also, I don't see a 'Cancel' button to allow me to postpone my reply until i get this technical issue with quotes within quotes resolved.

--- disclaimer, I don't know how I could have typed the next paragraph without sounding like a who's on first skit, sorry, no snark was intended ---

We don't get quotes within quotes when we quote posts with quotes. I think.:hmmmm2: If you wanted to include the quotes on the reply screen the other posts from the thread are below where you type in decending order. You can copy the quote you want to quote and put it in quote tags or use the quote button (
quote.gif
) or you can multiquote the post(s) where the original quotes came from and integrate them that way.

As far as canceling your post, you can just use the back button on the browser.:)
 
Make two quotes, thread them by hand, keep the quote tags straight using preview before posting.

It's not difficult, turn off wysiwyg editing by clicking the A/a button usually in the upper right, and the tag mechanism becomes obvious.

And if there are going to be any further political discussions as the result of that, make a new thread for it in the PCA, not here.

:)
 
so... whats the update.. for the 2 flights?

Wow looks as if I maybe correct about the missing airline . something very funny has happened . you ask wh:eek:t hmmmmm well they saying they noticed 35,000.00 missing from a few accounts they say it was transferred to a different account and removed quickly. Wow I don't think someone missing can perform that and go undetected . not looking good ,things could be about to be missing areline
 
I was just halfway listening to the news in the background when this caught my attention: it was six months ago today that the plane disappeared. And still nothing... :dontknow:
 
I was just halfway listening to the news in the background when this caught my attention: it was six months ago today that the plane disappeared. And still nothing... :dontknow:

I have been hearing conspiracy theories that it might reappear on the anniversary of 9/11. No disrespect to the families.
 
I have been hearing conspiracy theories that it might reappear on the anniversary of 9/11. No disrespect to the families.

Some people will make up all types of bovine ordure :(

My brother once showed me a conspiracy magazine which had an article on why the moon landings were faked followed a few pages later by one arguing that the US government was in contact with aliens. One of the arguments in the second was that there was no other way we could have developed the technology to get to the moon so quickly...
 
The Dutch Safety Board has released its preliminary report. (PDF document)

No definite conclusions as yet due to the lack of access to the crash site, but all indications point to a perfectly routine flight up to the point at which the aircraft was riddled with high-velocity objects from outside, causing immediate and catastrophic damage leading to rapid structural disintegration.
 
The Dutch Safety Board has released its preliminary report. (PDF document)

No definite conclusions as yet due to the lack of access to the crash site, but all indications point to a perfectly routine flight up to the point at which the aircraft was riddled with high-velocity objects from outside, causing immediate and catastrophic damage leading to rapid structural disintegration.

Interesting.... Maybe it was hit by meteors
 
Passenger on downed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 had oxygen mask on

One of the Australian passengers aboard the doomed Malaysia Airlines jet shot down over Ukraine in July appears to have donned an oxygen mask before the fatal crash, suggesting some on board might have been aware of their impending deaths, a Dutch official disclosed.

Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans apologized on Thursday for making the revelation on a television talk show the previous night, before the families of the 298 victims of the disaster had been notified of the disturbing discovery...
 
No, it's not. But I feel it's more relevant to this thread than it is worth starting a new one for, as a disappearing airliner is not a frequent occurrence. Adding it here further emphasizes the tragic year for air travel to, in, or from SE Asia this year.

Another interesting note, AirAsia Indonesia is a subsidiary of AirAisia, a Malaysian company.
 
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