Mosque Being Built 2 Blocks Away From Ground Zero... What Do You Think?

[copestag]

I dont think anyone should ever have people protest at someones funeral, unless they are Mussolini or sth

There is a big diffrrence

you seriously believe theres a difference between one mans funeral and another?

if you could possibly believe protesting at any persons funeral is morally ok, regardless of who that person is, then you have issues......

however.... its legally OK just like building the mosque... they have the right to do it..... but rights dont always mean right

 

[_J.J._]

It seems to me that you're proposing doing these things to try and goad people into a reaction, you're deliberately trying to be offensive, and while I see no reason that you wouldn't be allowed to do these things, I think it would be wrong, because your intention is purely negative.

The actions of these developers are at least trying to be positive, they're not intending to be hurtful or offensive, and they are trying to show tolerance, promote understanding and bring unity to the neighbours.

yeah, sure they are.....

 

[ElasticNinja]

you seriously believe theres a difference between one mans funeral and another?

if you could possibly believe protesting at any persons funeral is morally ok, regardless of who that person is, then you have issues......

however.... its legally OK just like building the mosque... they have the right to do it..... but rights dont always mean right

The problem is that you are working on the assumption that Muslims = terrorists = Al Qaida.

I think you will be hard pressed finding a Muslim who isnt either extremely poor or oppressesed, who does not think the 9/11 attacks were wrong and terrible.



EDIT: I said Mussolini, who oppressed minoroties and caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Ethiopians.
Wait Ethiopians arent people are they...!

 

[copestag]

The problem is that you are working on the assumption that Muslims = terrorists = Al Qaida.

I think you will be hard pressed finding a Muslim who isnt either extremely poor or oppressesed, who does not think the 9/11 attacks were wrong and terrible.

EDIT: I said Mussolini, who oppressed minoroties and caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Ethiopians.
Wait Ethiopians arent people are they...!

exactly where did I mention terrorists or even hint at terrorism? you seem confused over what the controversy is about..... nobody thinks the mosque is going to be a terrorist clubhouse.... its insensitive plain and simple...... just like protesting at a soldiers funeral

and yes you did say mussolini......... and I said it doesnt matter:

"if you could possibly believe protesting at any persons funeral is morally ok, regardless of who that person is, then you have issues"

this includes: Mussolini, Hitler, Himmler, Stalin, Saddam, US soldiers, etc etc

its a matter of showing respect... regardless of whether you approved of the person in life.... Im sure someone did... and they deserve to bury their dead in peace

just like its a matter of showing respect at ground zero.... for many that is their burial place.... building the mosque is a slap in the face to their families..... in their hearts and minds its about muslims pissing on their loved ones grave

 

[ElasticNinja]

exactly where did I mention terrorists or even hint at terrorism? you seem confused over what the controversy is about..... nobody thinks the mosque is going to be a terrorist clubhouse.... its insensitive plain and simple...... just like protesting at a soldiers funeral

Again, I dont see how this is like protesting at a soldiers funeral, I'd be shocked if the people who are developing the center were pro-terrorists

and yes you did say mussolini......... and I said it doesnt matter:

"if you could possibly believe protesting at any persons funeral is morally ok, regardless of who that person is, then you have issues"

this includes: Mussolini, Hitler, Himmler, Stalin, Saddam, US soldiers, etc etc

What do you mean "etc etc"
The fact that you included this list clearly means that you somehow mean that there are heartless US soldiers oyut there responsible for killing tends of thousands of people just because they are different.
Or else you just dont like Muslims.

its a matter of showing respect... regardless of whether you approved of the person in life.... Im sure someone did... and they deserve to bury their dead in peace

Just as Hitler and co. allowed all the Jews, Homosexuals & Slavs to rest in peace after being exterminated.

just like its a matter of showing respect at ground zero.... for many that is their burial place.... building the mosque is a slap in the face to their families..... in their hearts and minds its about muslims pissing on their loved ones grave

Do you really think "they are pissing on their graves"?
I'd say if you had your way you'd have every single Muslim chased off the island of Manhattan



IMO Its seems that you beliecve that every Muslim is somehow bad.
That is so untrue, some of the nicest people I've dealt with are Muslims.

 

[mpw]

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[mpw]

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[Bob Maxey]

To me its not a big deal. However, to not allow them to build it would be a violation of the constitution.

Why is it a violation of the Constitution? BTW, if it is a violation, it should be a big deal. what am I missing?

Bob

 

[Familyguy1]

Why is it a violation of the Constitution? BTW, if it is a violation, it should be a big deal. what am I missing?

Bob

People throw around that phrase way too much these days...it starts to get tiring....and annoying.

 

[ElasticNinja]

People throw around that phrase way too much these days...it starts to get tiring....and annoying.

I think no matter what you say to this Bob guy, he'll still hate Muslims...

 

[Bob Maxey]

I think no matter what you say to this Bob guy, he'll still hate Muslims...

Which Bob guy?

Bob Maxey

 

[Familyguy1]

Actually I am agreeing with Bob Maxey, I hate it when people bring "Its a violation of the constitution" into an arguement. So what, do people really go their daily lives thinking stuff they do is a violation...and why would it matter.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Actually I am agreeing with Bob Maxey, I hate it when people bring "Its a violation of the constitution" into an arguement. So what, do people really go their daily lives thinking stuff they do is a violation...and why would it matter.

This is exactly why kids in school need to understand the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, and pay attention to the Bill of Rights. And, they need those documents explained by teachers without an agenda.

I try to explain to people that everything you do, are allowed to do, want to do, and are prevented from doing or having done to you by the government is explained in those extraordinary documents. I also try to explain that laws can be put into place that are not strictly against the Constitution. We must pay attention to these issues because they bloody well matter.

What I truly hate is the notion that the Constitution is a living, breathing document. Fact is, if they are, if the Constitution can be changed with little or no effort, we no longer have a viable Constitution. Just words on parchment that have little or no meaning. Treating it as such would render it a dead letter.

A Constitution whose provisions can be selectively ignored does not guarantee your rights. We are no longer governed by an impartial rule of law, but by subjective and capricious men and women. Justice gives way privilege.

Bob

 

[Bob Maxey]

just some food for thought...... the case recently in front of the USSC.... whether to allow the anti-war protesters at the funerals of soldiers....

I would love to see a poll among those protesters who argue its their right to protest at a funeral.... just to see how many of them are against the mosque at ground zero...... Id be willing to bet its 100%

of course Id also be willing to bet that a number of people who say there shouldnt be a mosque at ground zero, also see no reason to ban protesters at funerals

Maybe they have a legal right, but they have no right. So very sad that soldiers give up their lives only to be treated so poorly and with no respect, in their final resting place, by cowards and bastards who have no clue about what the solder did just to make it through to the next day.

To all Veterans and active military on the list, God bless you and thank you for your service. Some of us deeply and unapologetically care about you.

Bob



To all veterens an

 

[Bob Maxey]

Politicians only use the constitution to get what they want, they forget about it when they can't bend it to fit their agenda.

Perhaps you should forget the broad generalization and say SOME Politicians only use the constitution to get what they want.

Then again, what alternative do you propose? Do you want politicians to get what they want by ignoring the Constitution? Not sure of your point.

Bob Maxey

 

[copestag]

What do you mean "etc etc"
The fact that you included this list clearly means that you somehow mean that there are heartless US soldiers oyut there responsible for killing tends of thousands of people just because they are different.
Or else you just dont like Muslims.

etc etc means exactly that.... the list goes on and on to include any person you could possibly name

Im sure the families of the people killed by these soldiers dont feel they were honorable or just in their actions...and they probably feel these soldiers are no better than mussolini..... so your opinion is the families of these people are not as worthy of respect as the families of people killed by mussolini? but this is not about the families of the victims of war....... its about the person who is dead....... and every person deserves a degree of privacy and respect at their funeral

Just as Hitler and co. allowed all the Jews, Homosexuals & Slavs to rest in peace after being exterminated.

I wasnt aware that Hitler protested at the funerals of Jewish people... thank you for making me aware of a non recorded part of history

Do you really think "they are pissing on their graves"?
I'd say if you had your way you'd have every single Muslim chased off the island of Manhattan

its a figure of speech that describes the emotional feeling the victims families are left with when seeing the disrespect given to them..... you really dont believe there is an emotional aspect to this?

exactly where did I say I was anti-muslim in any fashion? I have no problem with muslims.... I simply feel they should be a little more understanding of what has happened and move forwared accordingly

IMO Its seems that you beliecve that every Muslim is somehow bad.

I guess if you need ad hominem to validate your argument then go for it.... Im not anti-muslim, Im pro-respect and building at ground zero is very disrespectful at the least .... whether intentional or unintentional...... in this case given the man in charges various statements I would say intentional IMO

 

[_J.J._]

Prejudiced much?

listen, if you want to live your life thinking the world is sunshine, lollipops and fluffy bunny shaped clouds, then go ahead....

When threats like

"if you don't build it, they will attack"

Breitbart.tv Ground Zero Mosque Imam: If You Don’t Build It, They Will Attack

....I'm a little hard pressed to believe that

The actions of these developers are at least trying to be positive, they're not intending to be hurtful or offensive, and they are trying to show tolerance, promote understanding and bring unity to the neighbours.

threats of violence are intending to be hurtful and offensive. They are not showing tolerance by forcing us to appease so they won't attack us again. I understand that this is an 'in your face' sorta deal.


So don't question my prejudice, question your own naivety in the name of political correctness.

 

[ElasticNinja]

etc etc means exactly that.... the list goes on and on to include any person you could possibly name

Im sure the families of the people killed by these soldiers dont feel they were honorable or just in their actions...and they probably feel these soldiers are no better than mussolini..... so your opinion is the families of these people are not as worthy of respect as the families of people killed by mussolini? but this is not about the families of the victims of war....... its about the person who is dead....... and every person deserves a degree of privacy and respect at their funeral

I understand what you are saying but, these soldiers are fighting a war against terrorists. OC there is tragic collateral damage though
Mussolini was not fighting a war
He was just killing ethnic minorities and those who dared disagree with him

I wasnt aware that Hitler protested at the funerals of Jewish people... thank you for making me aware of a non recorded part of history

helloooo the Holocaust?!?

exactly where did I say I was anti-muslim in any fashion? I have no problem with muslims.... I simply feel they should be a little more understanding of what has happened and move forwared accordingly



I guess if you need ad hominem to validate your argument then go for it.... Im not anti-muslim, Im pro-respect and building at ground zero is very disrespectful at the least .... whether intentional or unintentional...... in this case given the man in charges various statements I would say intentional IMO

I would like to think you like Muslims, its just that in media reports here, that seems to be a factor in this

 

[mpw]

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[byteware]

you seriously believe theres a difference between one mans funeral and another?

if you could possibly believe protesting at any persons funeral is morally ok, regardless of who that person is, then you have issues......

however.... its legally OK just like building the mosque... they have the right to do it..... but rights dont always mean right

The real question is whether or not the families have a right to privacy in that moment.

If it is determined that they DO in fact have a right to privacy, then these protests would be a violation of that right.

Free speech has limits. Lies aren't protected. Harmful speech isn't protected (yelling fire in a crowded theater). And if it is determined that the family has a right to privacy at the funeral, then this behavior will be deemed unconstitutional, and the family will be sued by every family that they have picketed, and will be bankrupted.

This is the outcome that I would like to see.

 

[_J.J._]

Why would I question that which is so evident?

Couple of points:
That link you posted is to a right-wing website that is laughable bias and prejudice, so trying to use it to prove that you're not prejudice is just pointless.

When you quote;

You should say who you're quoting, because you imply it's the developer, and then link to a site that reports on an interview with him in which he makes no such statement; it might be your mistake, or you might be deliberately mis-quoting to try and make your prejudicial argument seem more factual, when it isn't.

I'm not so naive as to think the world is "sunshine, lollipops and fluffy bunny shaped clouds", but neither is my vision skewed by prejudice like yours; it's not political correctness, it's just plain correctness.

The website is just a link to the video. Listen to it for yourself and judge. and it's not just plain correctness to be bullied into compliance so they won't attack us again.

Child molester to a community - just let me build my house next door to the elementary school I got caught trying to pick up kids at. If you don't build it, I will rape your kids.

does just plain correctness say this is ok too, or do your red flags go up now?

 

[mpw]

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[Member243850]

Hmm but u need to respect the lives that were murdered in 9/11, and you need to ask urself why do these muslim followers want to construct the mosque so badly? What are they trying to prove? Why do they want to build it? Are they sending a message to Infidels of islam?

Hmm you see this is simliar or like when the "great" law of mankind and respecting ones wishes or human rights are conflicting or violating each other so what to do?....

I personally hate lawyers and the like...they allow the most rotten scum to walk free!..and allow this mosque sort of thing to happen.... but at the same time most laws are needed / required so i do respect most laws...

i don't like it when people don't respect the wishes of others if they are honest / good wishes that is... people got murdered in 9/11 and is not a joke at all. I think they want to hurt others feelings sadly.

The muslims that want to build that mosque are evil people... don't get me wrong...not all muslims are bad.... but these specific ones building the mosque have sinister intentions... They are trying to prove something very foolish... they are don't care or just don't give a f*** about those that lost their lives in 9/11...

Very sad indeed they shud seek counselling asap.

 

[mpw]

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[Member243850]

Hmm,

Look mpw dude,

I think there are only a few reasons they wud want to build a mosque near the 9/11 site dude, to humiliate those that lost their lives on 9/11 or something like that... they are trying to send out a message....a message i don't like at all...

Why do it? I mean come on... 9/11 was not good at all... this doesn't improve things at alll...it does not help the situation dude... if you want to be friends with some1 forgive them.... don't go rub it in their face. That's not cool at all dude,

Keep well dude

Stinks