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Mosque Being Built 2 Blocks Away From Ground Zero... What Do You Think?

shadowninty said:
I would like to know; what if it was four blocks? If its was six? eight?
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I guess you would have to ask those who are upset about it.

I think it is in poor taste, but it doesn't upset me.

Muslims, in general, aren't at war with "The West". Muslims, in general, are much more at war with other Muslims.

They kill more of each other than we do of them, or they do of us.

Aside from precautions against terrorism, I'm not terribly worried about stuff like that.
 
mpw said:
Why doesn't the other side cave? because they don't want peace and or unity?
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Some of them honestly believe that this is a victory mosque.


mpw said:
You weren't just acknowledging the 'facts' though, you were replying to my point regarding the reasoning of the developers, and making the argument that since there was opposition (which is based it would seem on prejudice) the developers reasoning was in some way flawed.
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I never said the developers reasoning was flawed.

I said, it's hard to believe that is their goal.

If that was their goal, then it seems to me that with the current level of anger and disharmony, that they would do whatever it took to get to peace, harmony, and unity...

Unfortunately, it seems that they are intent on building the community center regardless of how many people feelings are hurt, and how much disunity and disharmony is generated from it.

That doesn't seem like something they would do, if harmony was really their goal.
 
Crude said:
McVeigh attacked a government struckture as retaliation for waco which is widely seen as an attack by our government on it's people. He was correct in holding our leaders responsible for their actions but he did it in the most misguided way possible and in the process killed a few hundred people. Summary he did it for political reasons with a hint of being a psychopath.

His attack was on the establishment.

atta attacked civilians airlines and structures for religious reasons. His actions led the to death of ~3000 civilians and caused me personally to hate flying (what a PITA).
"check your weapon before you leave and long before you leave.

His attack was on human life.

"You must make your knife sharp and you must not discomfort your animal during the slaughter" atta

Now lets stop comparing the two and move on.
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Distinction without a difference, as the saying goes. Psychos commiting heinous acts against innocent civilians because of some F'd up ideologies is all I see.

And, for the record, just because you happen to agree with a terrorist's motivations doesn't mean they're not a terrorist or that they're somehow excused for taking innocent lives.
 
electric monk said:
Distinction without a difference, as the saying goes. Psychos commiting heinous acts against innocent civilians because of some F'd up ideologies is all I see.

And, for the record, just because you happen to agree with a terrorist's motivations doesn't mean they're not a terrorist or that they're somehow excused for taking innocent lives.
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If that's all you got outta that then it wasn't worth my time. You're looking for an argument to stand on that just isn't there. I do not agree with either of the two I just portrayed the difference as you requested.


Herein lies the problem with discussion these days. It's dam near impossible to reason with some one who has already rationalized his position whether it be right or wrong. I'm not even against the mosque. The fact that it's being pushed so hard by muslims doesn't seem to reflect their "peaceful" religion as they want it portrayed. And since these ones are claiming to be different I'm finding it hard to believe when someone makes the claim that the sect of muslim are that radically different. It seems it's all the same just with different intensities. And that's why I don't believe the mosque should be there.

And don't even tell me that christianity blah blah blah. Lumping 4-6 different religions into one term will only make some one look foolish.
 
Wow... every1 is getting out of hand here sadly.

Maybe this thread shud be closed here
 
Well, then help me out here, Crude. How is McVeigh's attack not "on human life"? How was 9-11 not an attack "on the establishment"? I think both attacks were on our way of life AND against a percieved established order. Not trying to be difficult. I'm just having a hard time following your reasoning.

And please don't dismiss my queries out of hand. It's quite rude, and I don't think that I'm being rude to you with this line of questioning.
 
Havent you heard; government is EVIL, therefore government employee's are EVIL, and are therefore not fully human, just like those Ethiopians :rolleyes:

Wow the Tea-Party and blackshirts seem more alike every day.
 
wiretap said:
Terrorists are getting more sophisticated with their nanothermite production in their caves. We need to stop these bastards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frIpyTBAV_Y
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Before you believe this person, Google the terms Nano Thermite and 9/11. You will discover that for every nutbar story about this 'nano thermite' there are reputable scientists saying something different.

I found this: "Now this twist has forced the Jones/Harrit/Roberts crew to slightly alter their story-line. Now they are suggesting that this primer paint that was used in the towers was actually the super-secret explosive nano-thermite and that the big plan was to run around spraying the underside of the floor systems with
 
shadowninty said:
Havent you heard; government is EVIL, therefore government employee's are EVIL, and are therefore not fully human, just like those Ethiopians :rolleyes:

Wow the Tea-Party and blackshirts seem more alike every day.
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The most productive thing you can bring to the conversation is to insult people?
 
byteware said:
The most productive thing you can bring to the conversation is to insult people?
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Yes, I have to agree with byteware.
It seems that you have followed his examples from the threads I posted.:D:D:D

Never mind the fact that everyone on BOTH sides is quick to promote the GREAT FREEDOMS of what AMERICA stands for as written in the Constitution etc... Why is it all of a sudden people no longer have that "freedom" and just as some of you don't like the Government telling you what to do then why are you treating these people the same way.

It's NOT on ground ZERO. It is not new. The building itself is a run down old Burlington Coat factory with STRIP CLUBS close by.

They paid for the building, they followed the LAWS, move on.

Did anyone ever CONSIDER the view that the building could be serving as future "protection"? Would you commit a crime right next to a Police station?

What is TRULY SAD is that it's going to be ELEVEN YEARS and nothing is built yet Dubai has built the WORLDS TALLEST BUILDING in 2 years or so. I think China is about to build even TALLER buildings.

Is ground zero being used as a PAWN to serve as a constant reminder? If it is then perhaps you lose and they win because they have you living in FEAR vs. showing the attitude of **** YOU, we rebuilt and we are HUNTING you. I guess it depends on which perspective you take.

Personally I think the US and it's allies NEED TO SHUT UP.
Just organize your Black Ops. Infiltrate these groups, use all technology possible to find them and JUST KILL THEM.
No big explosions to alarm the public, just good old fashioned poison and bullets. As in nature, the best hunter is the one you can not see, hear, or smell for when you do it means you are 1 second from death.:D

I have some crafty ideas which include the US and Allies setting up fake business in those countries and in certain areas, simple places like coffee shops...run by LAW enforcement that LOOK LIKE THEM.
It would take time as in 1-3 years to MAKE IT LOOK like a little guy struggling to open a shop vs. a truck rolling in and whamo the next day instant coffee shop from someone nobody has ever seen.

Why coffee shops and the sorts? People talk there. It's a hub.
Setup secret mic's and camera's with all the goodies such as voice id, facial recognition. Over time information will flow right to you.
See, low tech, long term.

There is NO one solution but like making chili, you need lots of different ingredients to create the result:D

Yes, it's complicated shit BUT we tend to overdo simplicity sometimes.
 
Bob Maxey said:
God, the tired old argument. Listen Sport . . . we were attacked by Muslim extremists, September 11, 2001. This was a hostile act by extremists that believe we all need to die. These asswipes are hell bent on our destruction.

Stop mentioning McVeigh because it IS NOT, NO WAY IN HELL, THE SAME THING.

Damn, We buy them books and they eat the pages.

Bob Maxey
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Bob I am with you and appreciate that you make the distinction above and realize that pissed off crazy manipulated people just hide behind Religion most of the times to rationalize and justify things for themselves.

BUT I disagree with you that they ARE the same thing.

Timothy McVeigh (forget about his religion) - wanted vengeance against the US Government so he BLEW UP A FEDERAL building WITH CIVILIANS in it including KIDS. Why didn't he wait until 1am when the building was empty or at the least on the weekend when the daycare was empty? He KILLED civilians and GOVERNMENT employees just the SAME to get back at the GOVERNMENT.

Atta and gang- did the SAME thing. Osama felt the US left him out to dry after the Afghan war with Russia plus a few other things such as the US "blinding" allegiance with Israel caused him to lash out JUST like TIM except they just killed more people.

They BOTH targeted and killed INNOCENT people.
 
The fact that they want to build the mosque so close to the 9/11 site tells me that they have alterior motives. If you believe otherwise I think you seriously need to freshen up your common sense.

Common sense is lost all too often for fear of offending somebody else.
 
imtoomuch said:
The fact that they want to build the mosque so close to the 9/11 site tells me that they have alterior motives. If you believe otherwise I think you seriously need to freshen up your common sense.

Common sense is lost all too often for fear of offending somebody else.
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Okay let's play along:
1. In this country we operate on a thing called PROOF. Got any?
2. So "close" uhm it's about 4 blocks or so away right next to the strip joint.
3. So this COMMUNITY CENTER will house a prayer rooms for Jews AND Christians...I guess they are in on the plot also?

I guess you can't look at it that if the THREE religions can exist under ONE ROOF as LIVING PROOF to the WORLD that they CAN get ALONG which helps to defeat the mindset of those that spew baseless rhetoric much like you are doing here.

So let's recap...EVERYTHING they are DOING is LEGAL and within the CONSTITUTION that is CHAMPIONED to the rest of the WORLD as to why AMERICA is so MUCH BETTER but when put to the test to demonstrate that you REJECT the CRAZIES and SHOW them that they will NOT set the direction for the NATION, that the CITIZENS of AMERICA of any religion CAN worship under the same roof, you balk. That's showing them. I think you are helping them prove your point and looking contradictory or hypocritical.

Instead of SUPPORTING the Imam that is sent out to the world by the US State Department to SHOW that the US is NOT anti religious or hates Islam, you attack the person that is trying to disarm and remove the crazies that are using religion to rationalize their hatred. Do you not see the BIGGER PICTURE? He is going to other countries to SHOW the kids that what they are being told by the craziest is a LIE...in a way you are helping the terrorist prove their "point".

You are going to lose this battle and this war or just concede and let this "battle" be lost so you do NOT lose the war. YOU will not change the mindset of the terrorist or the people they recruit.
The CHANGE and PREVENTION HAS to come from within the Muslim religion. I think EVERYONE NEEDS to show UNITY with ALL MUSLIMS to HELP them fight the "hijackers" of Islam from within.

Think of it like this...If a poor child in another country sees the MODERATE MUSLIMS helping to build schools etc... with the help from OTHER Religions then when the crazies try to recruit those kids you INSTANTLY created doubt because that kid and future adult will ask within why would I kill people that helped me.

ALL Religions mean well but like anything man made it has failure built in and human nature to use it for power over others and money. ALL RELIGIONS HAVE CRAZIES WITHIN.

Do you not see how the terrorists ARE CHANGING US?
They are MAKING US change the way we live. We lose FREEDOM at the hands of our own Government in the name of security. Look at all the shit you got to do now when you fly. Now they pat you down and even closer than before. Now you get a full body x-ray.
Every time the terrorist to something WE ALL SUFFER by "having" to REACT to them.

Personally- I think WE ALL STAND UP and say **** YOU.
ADMIT to it and TELL THEM that YES you may bomb us, yes you will kill some of us but know this, we will kill ALL of YOU. So we need to stop fighting within and get other Muslims to work with us and support us to show that we are also trying to protect their religion as much as our own safety. This war can only be won by supporting the Moderate Muslims. Think about it.

* I am not attacking you in any way shape or form. I just got spirited and wrote in a general form.

I am just ****ing tired of having to remove some shit or jump another hurdle just to get on a plane because some nut keeps doing shit they now know we will be FORCED to jump their hurdles.
What next? The WIG bomber meaning we can only fly with shaved heads? Oh btw what color is the alert today?
 
The rule of the game is: the electoral majority has always the last say in every matter. Let's face it, feminism and the pill have tipped the demographic scales in America and the rest of the world. In Islamic society woman are encouraged to raise large families rather than become executives, lawyers and politicians. So the result is that the Muslims are beginning to outnumber the Christians. ​
 
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