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Obama Care Yet Again

actually i was against the bailouts, and the stimulus package

the wars could have been shorter had the military been left to do its job.
woulda cost alot less. those wars are not for oil
and i do not agree with subsidies, but subsidies and tax deductions are 2 diff things
ive said the tax code is flawed

the max welfare varies by state, and should be temp. why wouldnt anyone want to get off it? but some people dont.

lets also not forget the millions obamas cabinet owed in bax taxes, the millions that are owed by companies that reviewed TARP funds

yes i reject my money being taken when other people are not paying what they owe and the government is doing nothing about it
 
But, you werent against the greed that got it to the point of bailouts? One of the wars was not a neccessity. Yeah you said the tax code is flawed, just not for the rich. Some, as in a VERY SMALL number. MILLIONS by Obama's cabinet? Got a link? Cant tell, you seem to defend the 17% rate the 400 richest people pay.
 
first one i found via google

Bumps in the Road: Obama's HHS Secretary Nominee Faces Tax Questions Over Car and Driver - Political Punch

there were several of his nominees
oh yes im againsr the greed that led to the bailouts
auto was caused by greedy union members, strikes, ect
bank was caused by sub prime lending, a barney frank baby, so that people that couldnt afford homes could get them (oops i cant pay this loan, can you help me)

no the tax code is flawed for everyone, the rich just have more write offs
not defending the rate, but what should it be? whats their total percentage?
heck i bet thats higher then your federal percentage
 
$101,000, that was paid. I am still waiting on the link for the "MILLIONS OWED".

Really, but those "good" ceos making $20,000 grand an hour is justifiable.
Really, I pay close to 50% of my income in taxes. I bet my percentage of taxes to my wealth is triple the top 400. In fact it is.
 
mdram said:
auto was caused by greedy union members, strikes, ect me)
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Where are you reading this?
Its these echo chamber sources (not unlike the one Alex posted earlier) that cause so much problems

The US auto industry problems was caused because the industry did not make decent efficient cars, and EU and Japanese cars were much preferable to the average car buyer

If the federal government had kept an eye on them it could've been somewhat prevented

**not saying worker issues were not a factor**
 
mdram said:
you pay 50% federal?

nd i said that was only 1 of the obama guys, and he paid becase he got caught
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Okay, so for federal income tax, it is a little under double the rate. Add in state(wich the rich tend to "live" in states with low or no income tax), and property, wich the rich tend to put some horses and call it a "farm", and sales (wich tends to eat up a larger portion on lower incomes, since they have to spend a higher percentage of their income to live), and again I say, I pay triple what they do in taxes.

And again I am waiting on links for the "millions owed", unless you just want to admit that was hyperbole.
 
shadowninty said:
Where are you reading this?
Its these echo chamber sources (not unlike the one Alex posted earlier) that cause so much problems

The US auto industry problems was caused because the industry did not make decent efficient cars, and EU and Japanese cars were much preferable to the average car buyer

If the federal government had kept an eye on them it could've been somewhat prevented

**not saying worker issues were not a factor**
Click to expand...

thier autos were ok, yes gas milage is not great, but they cost too much for the quality
when you can get an import for less cost and better quality why buy from them?
look up the jobs bank for the uaw. costs to auto companies was in the billions for this alone
 
nlsme said:
Okay, so for federal income tax, it is a little under double the rate. Add in state(wich the rich tend to "live" in states with low or no income tax), and property, wich the rich tend to put some horses and call it a "farm", and sales (wich tends to eat up a larger portion on lower incomes, since they have to spend a higher percentage of their income to live), and again I say, I pay triple what they do in taxes.

And again I am waiting on links for the "millions owed", unless you just want to admit that was hyperbole.
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you call new york low income?
if your paying 34% federal your getting ripped off, the highest current rate is 25%, for income above 350k or so
so your one of the rich?

and as to the millions i will agree it was most likely a hyperbole. most likley closer to 1/2 mill between all of them, just can remember all the names
 
I actually live in New York, yes there are a lot of rich here. However, there are a lot in Florida(wich doesnt have income tax, and is home to some of the wealthiest in America). And in a lot more states that are a lot less taxed. Okay, so maybe not double in federal. Still well over their rate, and add in ALL my tax, and nearly half of my income is paid into taxes.

As to your hyperbole, please list ONE link where ONE of his cabinet members OWES anything in back taxes. As far as them "only paying it back because they got caught", goes to show how the rich are.
 
nlsme said:
I actually live in New York, yes there are a lot of rich here. However, there are a lot in Florida(wich doesnt have income tax, and is home to some of the wealthiest in America). And in a lot more states that are a lot less taxed. Okay, so maybe not double in federal. Still well over their rate, and add in ALL my tax, and nearly half of my income is paid into taxes.

As to your hyperbole, please list ONE link where ONE of his cabinet members OWES anything in back taxes. As far as them "only paying it back because they got caught", goes to show how the rich are.
Click to expand...

florida uses a form of the fair tax, they have a state sales tax of 6% that replaced the income tax, then add the local sales tax
see it works
i believe texas does the same

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/wp1.pdf


and all the obamanites if its in the news they no longer owe, the paid when caught. but im sure some got through
 
mdram said:
and all the obamanites if its in the news they no longer owe, the paid when caught. but im sure some got through
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I think what you mean is that they are going on junkets and free stuff rather than dodging taxes

How do you think Obamacare got so watered down and pro insurance?
 
nlsme said:
Maybe that has a little something to do with the fact that the American middle class is dissapearing? Or the fact that healthcare costs are rising at a ridiculous rate? I know my rates have more than tripled in the last 10 years.
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Precisely. If that economist is worth anything he would have projected those costs.
 
Crude said:
I'm sorry, but this is more WTF then I can handle. How is my lack of insurance treading on anyone?
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The argument goes like this: you smoke, you get cancer, you have no insurance, so we the people pay for your costly treatment. Your treatment is required because you live a dangerous lifestyle and when it catches up to you, we the people must pay for your errors and omissions, like not having insurance.

At least that is how I understand the argument.

Bob
 
mdram said:
you call new york low income?
if your paying 34% federal your getting ripped off, the highest current rate is 25%, for income above 350k or so
so your one of the rich?
Click to expand...

Actually not true. For me, I get commission checks and I am taxed at almost 40% (35-39%). Certain types of income gets taxed in different ways. I don't make more than $150k per year (at least the last several years) and I get all my commission taxes done this way.
 
mdram said:
auto was caused by greedy union members, strikes, ect
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You can't blame labor when over the last 30 years the majority of US manufacturing has been outsourced to foreign countries. The automaker's failure was caused by their inability to produce quality, efficient vehicles. GM hadn't made an auto profit in nearly a decade, all their profit was from GMAC, the financing corporation. The Japanese and Germans produced superior products. This is called competition. GM failed and we bailed them out. Here's the socialism you scream about, except that it is corporate.

mdram said:
bank was caused by sub prime lending, a barney frank baby, so that people that couldnt afford homes could get them
Click to expand...

Sub prime lending was initiated by bank and mortgage brokers who knowingly gave loans to people who couldn't afford them with terms that would cause the loan to self-destruct. The purpose was to get a closing fee then sell the mortgage and rake off profit without risk, which got passed on to the buyer of the mortgage. The mortgages were graded AAA by bribed rating corporations (Moody's etc.) and packaged and sold as "premium" investments, once again taking the profit and passing on the risk on to someone else.

This practice was institutionalized by banks to get out of the housing bubble, where they had extended loans to developers who couldn't sell the houses they had overbuilt on borrowed money. To get out of the builder's loans the bank gave mortgages to anyone, often including the cost of the downpayment as a cash advance above the total price of the property.

As they say, if it's sounds too good to be true it probably is. This was not the result of some guy who knew he couldn't afford it and planned to go bankrupt and lose his house and his cash and his credit and quite possibly his family.

mdram said:
(oops i cant pay this loan, can you help me)
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NOBODY is helping the mortgage holders - all the bailout money went to banks and Wall Street (private investors) - more welfare for corporations and the rich, many of whom pay less taxes than you if they pay any at all.

Ignoring reality, you insist on blaming the victims for the disaster ...
 
noah way said:
You can't blame labor when over the last 30 years the majority of US manufacturing has been outsourced to foreign countries. The automaker's failure was caused by their inability to produce quality, efficient vehicles. GM hadn't made an auto profit in nearly a decade, all their profit was from GMAC, the financing corporation. The Japanese and Germans produced superior products. This is called competition. GM failed and we bailed them out. Here's the socialism you scream about, except that it is corporate.
Click to expand...

lack of profit was due to the greed of the unions
look up job banks

noah way said:
Sub prime lending was initiated by bank and mortgage brokers who knowingly gave loans to people who couldn't afford them with terms that would cause the loan to self-destruct. The purpose was to get a closing fee then sell the mortgage and rake off profit without risk, which got passed on to the buyer of the mortgage. The mortgages were graded AAA by bribed rating corporations (Moody's etc.) and packaged and sold as "premium" investments, once again taking the profit and passing on the risk on to someone else.

This practice was institutionalized by banks to get out of the housing bubble, where they had extended loans to developers who couldn't sell the houses they had overbuilt on borrowed money. To get out of the builder's loans the bank gave mortgages to anyone, often including the cost of the downpayment as a cash advance above the total price of the property.

As they say, if it's sounds too good to be true it probably is. This was not the result of some guy who knew he couldn't afford it and planned to go bankrupt and lose his house and his cash and his credit and quite possibly his family.



NOBODY is helping the mortgage holders - all the bailout money went to banks and Wall Street (private investors) - more welfare for corporations and the rich, many of whom pay less taxes than you if they pay any at all.

Ignoring reality, you insist on blaming the victims for the disaster ...
Click to expand...

the banks did not want these loans, they were forced to do them by the gov. to provide 'equality'
 
mdram said:
lack of profit was due to the greed of the unions
look up job banks
Click to expand...

Mdram, you are blinkering yourself to facts that disagree with your POV

We are all trying to help each other understand and learn but you must be able to adjust your views based on fact
 
shadowninty said:
Mdram, you are blinkering yourself to facts that disagree with your POV

We are all trying to help each other understand and learn but you must be able to adjust your views based on fact
Click to expand...

It's pointless ... belief systems are immune to fact, experience and logic.
 
Bob Maxey said:
The argument goes like this: you smoke, you get cancer, you have no insurance, so we the people pay for your costly treatment. Your treatment is required because you live a dangerous lifestyle and when it catches up to you, we the people must pay for your errors and omissions, like not having insurance.

At least that is how I understand the argument.

Bob
Click to expand...

Ah, I get it. My problem with that is that I don't believe that a person without insurance has any right to treatment. No money, no insurance, then you can only hope for the mercy of those willing to VOLUNTARILY give handouts. Trust me, if you've been a normal person just trying to make it, someone will step up. But if you're been a little shit your whole life and have made it this far on dumb luck...well that was the end of your luck. At the very least people would have an idea what common courtesy is...unlike the clueless masses that are protesting their right to another mans hard labor. So, please forgive me as that thought process is foreign to me.

For the record, I've always had insurance after collage, sometimes working pathetic jobs just in case I hit one of lifes speed bumps.
 
Crude said:
For the record, I've always had insurance after collage, sometimes working pathetic jobs just in case I hit one of lifes speed bumps.
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So if you hit some of those bumps, lose your job, lose your insurance, and then get sick, you deserve to suffer and die without care?
 
noah way said:
So if you hit some of those bumps, lose your job, lose your insurance, and then get sick, you deserve to suffer and die without care?
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A resounding yes. Unless my church whom I've donated to since I was making money decides I'm worth helping out. See what I did there?
 
Crude said:
See what I did there?
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You've positioned yourself as religious and philanthropic and undermined it with the expectation that it will benefit you.



Crude said:
noah way said:
So if you hit some of those bumps, lose your job, lose your insurance, and then get sick, you deserve to suffer and die without care?
Click to expand...

A resounding yes.
Click to expand...

I'll bet your church would help someone in misfortune regardless of whether or not they were a member or a donor.
 
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