Root **Official** Droid X encrypted bootloader and efuse thread

[CRPercodani]

I'm not positive on this but to actually check if the BL is encrypted we would first need root access or some type of hboot/fastboot so we could try and flash a custom ROM/Recovery//Kernel/whatever. There might be another way to check via adb but I don't know it.

 

[Piiman]

I emailed a bunch of those reviewers posted in that thread about the DX having an encrypted bootloader. Andrew at Boy Genius Report emailed me back:



What should I email him back? It seems like we have no actual proof the bootloader is encrypted, but we have almost EVERY reason to believe it is. Is there anyway he would be able to tell with a test device? Should I tell him we just have to wait until the devs get it when its released? If Boy Genius Report wrote a piece on this, that would kind of be a big deal. Agreed?

Tell him to confirm it with Moto.

 

[Piiman]

It hasn't been hacked at all, nor has a workaround been found so far.




You do realize the the word "if", as I have used it, typically denotes that the sentence fragment following it is a) a possibility, or b) a hypothetical scenario. In this case, it is both. Maybe I should explain the post...:



Now, would you be so kind as to point out the assumption here? Or were you talking about the second part of the post?



Once again, just in case you didn't notice, this is a purely hypothetical scenario. However, one should point out that we've seen it before - Samsung, HTC, Archos... I'm sure there are others too. The difference here is that it wasn't such a big fuss, because none of those devices had encrypted bootloaders.

And now, back to your last post:



How do you know how long Motorola is planning on supporting the Milestone, or the Droid X? Aren't you the one who is assuming that everyone who cares will have moved on to their next device by the time the software updates are stopped (One should note that this scenario is dependent on two variables you have absolutely no control over, and also probably don't have any info about: Motorola's support length and how long people will keep their phones)?

I don't know about you, but if I buy a 500

 

[ckochinsky125]

That's the irony of his scenario. The people that are concerned about that sort of thing are the first to move on to the next "latest and greatest" (Hell my Dinc is going to last 28 days. I've already planned its EOL .)

There is no way I'm keeping a phone more than two years and I'm sure this phone will be supported for 2 years.

Yeah these people complain but even if it wasnt encrypted they would be done with the phone in months as soon as the so called latest and greatest came out. Oh well people always will whine about something

 

[Matthast]

I think that the amount of truth behind this statement depends on whether one is seriously considering purchasing a phone for use, or simply discussing the merit or lack-thereof (pros and cons) of a device simply for the sake of the discussion.

For the first, I'd say there is some truth to your point. Many of the people that are posting here in these forums do feel like they have to be on the cutting edge of the technology world - and I agree that those people are the ones who will move on to a 2GHz device before the lack of custom ROM freedom on the Droid X would really become an issue.

However, you'd have a hard time arguing to me that the longevity of usefulness of a device is not an important factor in determining the value of that particular device in the technology world, regardless of whether the parties discussion actually intend on using it.

 

[ckochinsky125]

I think that the amount of truth behind this statement depends on whether one is seriously considering purchasing a phone for use, or simply discussing the merit or lack-thereof (pros and cons) of a device simply for the sake of the discussion.

For the first, I'd say there is some truth to your point. Many of the people that are posting here in these forums do feel like they have to be on the cutting edge of the technology world - and I agree that those people are the ones who will move on to a 2GHz device before the lack of custom ROM freedom on the Droid X would really become an issue.

However, you'd have a hard time arguing to me that the longevity of usefulness of a device is not an important factor in determining the value of that particular device in the technology world, regardless of whether the parties discussion actually intend on using it.

Well the device will still be usable even if motorola stops sending out updates. Just because you wont get android 4.0 or whatever doesnt make a phone no usable so that argument doesnt hold to much water. The point is it is still a phone and still do what it was intended to do although it may not be break neck speeds a year or so down the road

 

[kwest12]

I want to make a few points. This is directed at those of your who are making accusations about us "whining" and laughing at us b/c allegedly we'll all be buying the next best thing in a year or two. Those of you who are objectively discussing the boot loader being signed, and the implications, etc: this isn't aimed at you.

1) What do you have to gain by telling us or inferring that we're wrong to want boot loader to be unsigned? I really don't think there is anything to gain and I don't think you're going to do any convincing with the methods mentioned above. To be honest, some of you are bordering on being offensive.

2) I'm going to venture a guess that many of you are getting upset b/c you see think we're trash talking the Droid X. I suggest those of you who feel this way re-examine what we're actually saying. If you go back and read the posts in this thread, I think you'll find that the majority of us "nay sayers" really do think the X is a great phone; we are just upset that Motorola and Verizon are probably going to take away an awesome feature away from us.

3) Let me just introduce a hypothetical scenario that illustrates what some of us are thinking (I'm not trying to sway those of you who don't care about the boot loader, just trying to help you understand what some of us are getting upset about). Lets say for example that the DX gets 2.2 in late August or early September: awesome, we hardly even had to wait! December rolls around and a superphone w/ a dual core processor, 1 ghz ram, great gpu, front facing camera, etc etc etc drops and Gingerbread is released. Let's say that Gingerbread makes 2.2 look like it runs slowly, and allows screens to actually increase resolution (that rumor was most likely misunderstood btw, but we're playing the hypothetical game). Unfortunately, Motorola and Verizon announce that the DX is gonna have to wait about 6 months to get this new super-awesome version of Android. Meanwhile, the HTC phones are all able to access the boot loader and have awesome custom cooked versions of Gingerbread with a ton of custom apps and functionality built right in. While DX users may get Gingerbread eventually, that's 6 months of having to wait (one fourth of your 2 year contract)... If they leave the boot loader unsigned, we wouldn't have to "be happy with the awesome phone we have"... instead we could have the absolute best phone that we could possibly have given the hardware we're working with.

4) I do want to just address those of you who are trying to argue and 'burn' each other: please stop. Getting in tiffs just brings the forums down and hurts threads. If it continues I will start exercising the "report post" button. Thank you in advance.

 

[ckochinsky125]

I want to make a few points. This is directed at those of your who are making accusations about us "whining" and laughing at us b/c allegedly we'll all be buying the next best thing in a year or two. Those of you who are objectively discussing the boot loader being signed, and the implications, etc: this isn't aimed at you.

1) What do you have to gain by telling us we're wrong to want boot loader to be unsigned? I really don't think there is anything to gain and I don't think you're going to do any convincing with the methods mentioned above. To be honest, some of you are bordering on being offensive.

2) I'm going to venture a guess that many of you are getting upset b/c you see think we're trash talking the Droid X. I suggest those of you who feel this way re-examine what we're actually saying. If you go back and read the posts in this thread, I think you'll find that the majority of us "nay sayers" really do think the X is a great phone; we are just upset that Motorola and Verizon are probably going to take away an awesome feature away from us.

3) Let me just introduce a hypothetical scenario that illustrates what some of us are thinking (I'm not trying to sway those of you who don't care about the boot loader, just trying to help you understand what some of us are getting upset about). Lets say for example that the DX gets 2.2 in late August or early September: awesome, we hardly even had to wait! December rolls around and a superphone w/ a dual core processor, 1 ghz ram, great gpu, front facing camera, etc etc etc drops and Gingerbread is released. Let's say that Gingerbread makes 2.2 look like it runs slowly, and allows screens to actually increase resolution (that rumor was most likely misunderstood btw, but we're playing the hypothetical game). Unfortunately, Motorola and Verizon announce that the DX is gonna have to wait about 6 months to get this new super-awesome version of Android. Meanwhile, the HTC phones are all able to access the boot loader and have awesome custom cooked versions of Gingerbread with a ton of custom apps and functionality built right in. While DX users may get Gingerbread eventually, that's 6 months of having to wait (one fourth of your 2 year contract)... If they leave the boot loader unsigned, we wouldn't have to "be happy with the awesome phone we have"... instead we could have the absolute best phone that we could possibly have given the hardware we're working with.


So what you're saying is you can't be happy with what you have? Why not just relax and be happy with what you have you dont know how motorola is going to work they could very well continue to update the x frequently and for awhile to come.

 

[kwest12]

So what you're saying is you can't be happy with what you have? Why not just relax and be happy with what you have you dont know how motorola is going to work they could very well continue to update the x frequently and for awhile to come.

I guess I can see where you could misinterpret what I said. I wasn't trying to say that I can't be happy with what I have, but it's a little tough to describe what I do mean. Unfortunately I think my best option to explain what I mean is to lead you through a convoluted story-type-thing.... so please bare with me.

Let's say there's a happiness scale from 1 to 10 (sounds stupid, but stay with me here). Using that scale let's assume the follow:
DX w/ 2.1 = 5
DX w/ 2.2 = 7
DX w/ 3.0 = 9
A 5 could be really happy, but a 7 is even happier.

Now let's say I get the Samsung Fascinate. Personally, I expect the hardware (besides the processor) to be inferior to the DX, so let's assume the following numbers if we're using the manufacturer's versions of Android.
Fascinate w/ 2.1 = 4
Fascinate w/ 2.2 = 6
Fascinate w/ 3.0 = 8

Now in many cases I feel that ROMs will make me slightly happier than the manufacturer's version. In addition, getting a newer OS really fast also makes me happier b/c I can run a better OS for longer on my current phone. Therefore:
Fascinate w/ custom 2.1 = 5
Fascinate w/ custom 2.2 = 7
Fascinate w/ custom 3.0 = 9

The take away message is that this: if I choose the Fascinate over the DX, I still get the same levels of happiness with each version of Android, but I get the next level of happiness faster.

I hope that all makes sense.


EDIT: I probably should have considered one more thing, but I don't want to go edit the numbers. I'm thinking that worrying whether or not Moto and VZW will support the DX (and how quickly they'll actually provide updates) would also play a part in all of this. Also, this post assumes that the Fascinate will have an unsigned boot loader based on fact that the Samsung Galaxy S has an unsigned boot loader.

 

[ckochinsky125]

yeah i understand i would still stick with the x over the samsung anyday samsung doesnt have the best history with good quality built phones but thats just me. To each their own thats why we have choices.

 

[kwest12]

yeah i understand i would still stick with the x over the samsung anyday samsung doesnt have the best history with good quality built phones but thats just me. To each their own thats why we have choices.

Yeah, Samsung's track record is a little weak... but so was Motorola's (smartphone wise) until the Droid. Since Galaxy S is being launched pretty much everywhere I am really hoping that it isn't too flimsy (aka hopefully Samsung realized how much is riding on this phones success and built it accordingly). If I case and a screen protector can make it sufficiently durable it definitely could contend with the DX in my mind. I'm not going to fool myself into thinking the will compete with the DX... the advantage of custom ROMs, the comparable CPU and the better GPU are the places that the Fascinate really gains ground (if the boot loader is unsigned).

Back on topic, I just read (a number of posts back) that the phone may need to be rooted before we can tell if the boot loader is signed.... Hopefully we can get Motorola or Verizon to cough up the answer before that!

 

[Piiman]

I want to make a few points. This is directed at those of your who are making accusations about us "whining" and laughing at us b/c allegedly we'll all be buying the next best thing in a year or two. Those of you who are objectively discussing the boot loader being signed, and the implications, etc: this isn't aimed at you.

1) What do you have to gain by telling us we're wrong to want boot loader to be unsigned?

Where did anyone tell anyone that?

Thanks it saved me a lot of reading.

Frankly I hope just the opposite however its not the end of the world if we can't. IMO

I base that on just having the Dinc for a short while. However in that short time I have rooted and flashed every rom we have for the little fella. Guess what ? Ive gone back to a ROM which is nothing more than a skin change. My point is that even out of the box these are great devices that are neat as all hell! I would still be f ing around with this thing if I had never rooted! there' is so much to do and the manufacturer still gives you plenty of freedom. Does rooting and ROM flashing add more for us to mess with ? Damn right! but I've got to think from a business stand point Verizon most hate it and the phone makers are going to bow to them. All Verizon knows is that we are circumventing a paid service by rooting ie wireless tethering. They're probably thinking if they make us all pay for it they'll make xxx more millions. I can just imagine some smuck in a board meeting bitching about hacked phones by passing their fee service.

And for those that keep saying "I should be able to do what I want with MY phone" Well the phone you buy is what you're going to have to deal with. It's not their job to make it easy to hack, matter of fact it's the opposite. So while it is your property your going to have to work (or someone else is) harder to achieve some of the goals you have in mind.

And that's all I'm going to say.

 

[Piiman]

I hope that all makes sense.

.

Yes! But you could have saved alot of typing by just saying "
"I'm impatient"

 

[jreed2560]

So what you're saying is you can't be happy with what you have? Why not just relax and be happy with what you have you dont know how motorola is going to work they could very well continue to update the x frequently and for awhile to come.

If I had this mentality I would get an Iphone. Some of us just want to push our devices beyond what someone else tells us we can do. Its all about progression. I read something very interesting today while looking up the hackers creed for an assignment at school today. Let me share it with you.

The Hacker's Creed
- Access to computers should be unlimited and total.
- Always yield to the Hands-On Imperative.
- All information should be free.
- Mistrust authority-promote decentralization.

The following was written shortly after my arrest...
../..The Conscience of a Hacker/../
by, +++The Mentor+++
Written on January 8, 1986
Another one got caught today, it's all over the papers. "Teenager Arrested in Computer Crime Scandal", "Hacker Arrested after Bank Tampering"...

Damn kids. They're all alike.

But did you, in your three-piece psychology and 1950's technobrain, ever take a look behind the eyes of the hacker? Did you ever wonder what made him tick, what forces shaped him, what may have molded him?

I am a hacker, enter my world...

Mine is a world that begins with school... I'm smarter than most of the other kids, this crap they teach us bores me...

Damn underachiever. They're all alike.

I'm in junior high or high school. I've listened to teachers explain for the fifteenth time how to reduce a fraction. I understand it. "No, Ms. Smith, I didn't show my work. I did it in my head..."

Damn kid. Probably copied it. They're all alike.

I made a discovery today. I found a computer. Wait a second, this is cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me...

Or feels threatened by me...

Or thinks I'm a smart ass...

Or doesn't like teaching and shouldn't be here...

Damn kid. All he does is play games. They're all alike.

And then it happened... a door opened to a world... rushing through the phone line like heroin through an addict's veins, an electronic pulse is sent out, a refuge from the day-to-day incompetencies is sought... a board is found.

"This is it... this is where I belong..."

I know everyone here... even if I've never met them, never talked to them, may never hear from them again... I know you all...

Damn kid. Tying up the phone line again. They're all alike...

You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us willing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert.

This is our world now... the world of the electron and the switch, the beauty of the baud. We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals. We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals. Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.

I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike.

+++The Mentor+++

 

[VIO]

I think what is emerging here is not a lot of "whining" about an encrypted bootloader (from those of us who are angry about it) but rather an expression of a principled rejection.

Many of us feel that an encrypted bootloader is an affront (perhaps too strong of a word) to the Android ethos--that of an open, free and available mobile platform. Sure Motorola is doing nothing 'wrong' they are perfectly entitled to encrypt whatever they like. That doesn't mean that I have to be OK with it.

Frankly, my "not being OK with it" it exactly the spirit that this type of open source platform encourages and perhaps demands. We believe that this, and all technology should be open, it should reflect our desires not Motorola's, because it is our phone. If we do not stand up for our "technological rights" (don't take that too far people) we will be told what we can and cannot have.

I understand that others do not care (tho I think you should) and that is your prerogative. But the time to fight against policies that you, in principle, disagree with is when are are being made, not after they are made. It is before it gets so restrictive that you have no chance anymore.

is it a big deal? In one sense no, its a fricken phone who cares. on the other hand it may be a bigger deal then we are making it.

 

[jreed2560]

I think what is emerging here is not a lot of "whining" about an encrypted bootloader (from those of us who are angry about it) but rather an expression of a principled rejection.

Many of us feel that an encrypted bootloader is an affront (perhaps too strong of a word) to the Android ethos--that of an open, free and available mobile platform. Sure Motorola is doing nothing 'wrong' they are perfectly entitled to encrypt whatever they like. That doesn't mean that I have to be OK with it.

Frankly, my "not being OK with it" it exactly the spirit that this type of open source platform encourages and perhaps demands. We believe that this, and all technology should be open, it should reflect our desires not Motorola's, because it is our phone. If we do not stand up for our "technological rights" (don't take that too far people) we will be told what we can and cannot have.

I understand that others do not care (tho I think you should) and that is your prerogative. But the time to fight against policies that you, in principle, disagree with is when are are being made, not after they are made. It is before it gets so restrictive that you have no chance anymore.

is it a big deal? In one sense no, its a fricken phone who cares. on the other hand it may be a bigger deal then we are making it.

If I could thank you more than once for this post I would!

 

[kwest12]

1) What do you have to gain by telling us we're wrong to want boot loader to be unsigned?

Where did anyone tell anyone that?

Thanks it saved me a lot of reading.

The vast majority of your posts in this thread seemingly have been written to convince us that we shouldn't care about the boot loader being signed. I think everyone pretty much got he gist of that 1st point, but if it would help, you can substitute the word "inferring" for the words "telling us".

I'm assuming the purpose of your comment, "saved me a lot of reading" was to suggest that the ensuing part of my post was garbage because you disagreed with my first point. I really don't think that being insulting is necessary: I wasn't trying to be a jerk with my post, I was just trying to make people consider why they were trying to convince us that we don't need an unsigned boot loader.


@VIO, that was extremely well said and right on the mark. Thank you.

 

[bemymonkey]

I'm assuming the purpose of your comment, "saved me a lot of reading" was to suggest that the ensuing part of my post was garbage because you disagreed with my first point. I really don't think that being insulting is necessary: I wasn't trying to be a jerk with my post, I was just trying to make people consider why they were trying to convince us that we don't need an unsigned boot loader.

If you look at Piiman's earlier replies to my posts, you'll see that this is his way of trying to make you look like an idiot without actually contributing any information to further his own argument. It's the Android-Forums equivalent of "So's your face!"


Great post further up, by the way.

 

[squaresailor]

Google is not open source, and neither are the companies that do business with it. Any other belief is simply a religion.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[Piiman]

If I had this mentality I would get an Iphone. Some of us just want to push our devices beyond what someone else tells us we can do. Its all about progression. I read something very interesting today while looking up the hackers creed for an assignment at school today. Let me share it with you.

The Hacker's Creed
- Access to computers should be unlimited and total.
- Always yield to the Hands-On Imperative.
- All information should be free.
- Mistrust authority-promote decentralization.

The following was written shortly after my arrest...
../..The Conscience of a Hacker/../
by, +++The Mentor+++
Written on January 8, 1986
Another one got caught today, it's all over the papers. "Teenager Arrested in Computer Crime Scandal", "Hacker Arrested after Bank Tampering"...

Damn kids. They're all alike.

But did you, in your three-piece psychology and 1950's technobrain, ever take a look behind the eyes of the hacker? Did you ever wonder what made him tick, what forces shaped him, what may have molded him?

I am a hacker, enter my world...

Mine is a world that begins with school... I'm smarter than most of the other kids, this crap they teach us bores me...

Damn underachiever. They're all alike.

I'm in junior high or high school. I've listened to teachers explain for the fifteenth time how to reduce a fraction. I understand it. "No, Ms. Smith, I didn't show my work. I did it in my head..."

Damn kid. Probably copied it. They're all alike.

I made a discovery today. I found a computer. Wait a second, this is cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me...

Or feels threatened by me...

Or thinks I'm a smart ass...

Or doesn't like teaching and shouldn't be here...

Damn kid. All he does is play games. They're all alike.

And then it happened... a door opened to a world... rushing through the phone line like heroin through an addict's veins, an electronic pulse is sent out, a refuge from the day-to-day incompetencies is sought... a board is found.

"This is it... this is where I belong..."

I know everyone here... even if I've never met them, never talked to them, may never hear from them again... I know you all...

Damn kid. Tying up the phone line again. They're all alike...

You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us willing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert.

This is our world now... the world of the electron and the switch, the beauty of the baud. We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals. We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals. Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.

I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike.

+++The Mentor+++

Cool story bro. What does it mean?

 

[Piiman]

I think what is emerging here is not a lot of "whining" about an encrypted bootloader (from those of us who are angry about it) but rather an expression of a principled rejection.

Many of us feel that an encrypted bootloader is an affront (perhaps too strong of a word) to the Android ethos--that of an open, free and available mobile platform. Sure Motorola is doing nothing 'wrong' they are perfectly entitled to encrypt whatever they like. That doesn't mean that I have to be OK with it.

Frankly, my "not being OK with it" it exactly the spirit that this type of open source platform encourages and perhaps demands. We believe that this, and all technology should be open, it should reflect our desires not Motorola's, because it is our phone. If we do not stand up for our "technological rights" (don't take that too far people) we will be told what we can and cannot have.

I understand that others do not care (tho I think you should) and that is your prerogative. But the time to fight against policies that you, in principle, disagree with is when are are being made, not after they are made. It is before it gets so restrictive that you have no chance anymore.

is it a big deal? In one sense no, its a fricken phone who cares. on the other hand it may be a bigger deal then we are making it.

The '"platform" is still open it's Motorola's phone that isn't and no one has said you have to be ok with it. Matter of fact I don't think anyone here as said anything like that.

I am courious though as to what part of the Android platform says that devices it gets used on also have to be open? because that is never going to fly with the big boys.

To be clear I am all for being able to open up the phone but if I can't I'm good with it. I also don't believe their is some "right" that devices with the Android OS installed on it has to be easy to hack.

And as far as the "hacker Creed" goes well Motorola has just laid down a challenge to you, smarter than average geeks, now get to it and earn your "advanced hacker" badge!

But hey that's just me.

 

[jreed2560]

The unveiling of the Android distribution on 5 November 2007 was announced with the founding of the Open Handset Alliance, a consortium of 71 hardware, software, and telecom companies devoted to advancing open standards for mobile devices.[12][13] Google released most of the Android code under the Apache License, a free software and open source license.[14]

from wikipedia

 

[jreed2560]

cool story bro. What does it mean?

lol

 

[arcturussage]

Why would motorola (or any company) encrypt or lock the phone? People still have to pay money to get the phone, motorola still makes money off the sale of the phone.

It's not like videogame piracy where one person buy's the phone and cracks it so a million others can use it for free.

 

[Piiman]

The vast majority of your posts in this thread seemingly have been written to convince us that we shouldn't care about the boot loader being signed. I think everyone pretty much got he gist of that 1st point, but if it would help, you can substitute the word "inferring" for the words "telling us".

I'm assuming the purpose of your comment, "saved me a lot of reading" was to suggest that the ensuing part of my post was garbage because you disagreed with my first point. I really don't think that being insulting is necessary: I wasn't trying to be a jerk with my post, I was just trying to make people consider why they were trying to convince us that we don't need an unsigned boot loader.


@VIO, that was extremely well said and right on the mark. Thank you.

I've never spoken for anyone but myself and I've never tried to convince anyone to think my way. I've even said many times I feel the opposite and the only difference is I don't see it as the end of the world. .

I stopped reading your post when it was obvious, by the first sentence, you were going to make things up. I haven't seen ANYONE try to convince you are anyone else to to change your thinking. Some of us just don't see the end of the world if we can't flash ROMS or that Moto will screw us if we can't hack their device. If you feel differently I'm happy for you.

Take care.