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other Precentral.net users lurking here

the point I'm trying to make is more towards how mch text you see, not the readability of it. You use phones with a hard keyboard and the whole screen is dedicated to what you are typing and what you maybe replying to. I hate having to reduce the keyboard to go back and refer to what I'm replying to or just have to scroll because only one sentence fits on the screen while I'm typing.

I don't think the keyboard needs to be that big, and hopefully there are more compact keyboards to choose from for that screen res.
 
I agree with that part. It's something I always hated about typing on my iTouch. You end up with like 2 lines of text visible. I had hoped this massive screen would have had room for a virtual QWERTY and an iPhone's worth of screen space left over :)
 
dbpaddler said:
the point I'm trying to make is more towards how mch text you see, not the readability of it. You use phones with a hard keyboard and the whole screen is dedicated to what you are typing and what you maybe replying to. I hate having to reduce the keyboard to go back and refer to what I'm replying to or just have to scroll because only one sentence fits on the screen while I'm typing.

I don't think the keyboard needs to be that big, and hopefully there are more compact keyboards to choose from for that screen res.
Click to expand...

I see your point and I do agree that it can be irritating, but to me the keyboard adds more thickness to the phone than I'd like to allow. It's a trade off of form vs function.
 
This is what I don't get. 2/3 of the screen...all keyboard. I'm all for enlarging the keyboard for easier typing, but that just seems like overkill.
htc-evo-4g-comparo-04-hands-1269376719-509x338.jpg
 
I was on precentral

Im a Premier member at Sprint and one of the perks (the only one) is that you can upgrade annually.

I like my Pre, but I want a 4G phone.
 
Pre owner..... Soon to be an EVO owner. I've been waiting for an android phone for quite some time now and what better Android phone to start with.
 
cary328is said:
ok I think I'm starting to see a lot of familiar names from Precentral.net over here :D

I'm sensing more and more of you guys either coming here since the EVO was introduced (which I admit I am) and/or you guys have been here for a while. My story: I love my Pre but frustrated with its little quirks and how VZW got the features I wanted in the Sprint Pre. I've never used an Android phone but after following the supersonic...errr....I mean EVO since day 1 - I'm definitely picking one up and still using my Pre for my other phone line. So is anyone else from Precentral.net?
Click to expand...

Yes, I pop my head in after the buzz on the Evo 4G. definitely getting one 4 sure.
 
Cal5000 said:
Google please buy Palm and make an Android Web OS hybrid.

Or let people dual boot the OSs
Click to expand...

That won't happen, but if you install an overclock patch on a Pre, it runs MUCH smoother. Shows what would have happened if Palm put a Snapdragon in it. I think as long as palm puts a fast processor (Faster than the OMAP 3) the next device should be fine with webOS. A lot of the lag is due to the processor speed and not to mention it is underclocked by 100mhz. The OS is NOT optimized at all (Key example is A2DP is streamed at 96kbps and uses 100% of the cpu) and really pounds the cpu hard. That is the main reason for me getting the EVO. webOS is just too slow for me to be using it regularly. It's been a tough year (almost). That 4.3" screen is the other reason :D. Wow, I went off topic there. :eek:
 
dbpaddler said:
This is what I don't get. 2/3 of the screen...all keyboard. I'm all for enlarging the keyboard for easier typing, but that just seems like overkill.
htc-evo-4g-comparo-04-hands-1269376719-509x338.jpg
Click to expand...

i agree and thought the same thing when i first saw that pic. but perhaps there's a method to their madness that we won't realize until we actually use the device.
 
Eguy said:
That won't happen, but if you install an overclock patch on a Pre, it runs MUCH smoother. Shows what would have happened if Palm put a Snapdragon in it. I think as long as palm puts a fast processor (Faster than the OMAP 3) the next device should be fine with webOS. A lot of the lag is due to the processor speed and not to mention it is underclocked by 100mhz. The OS is NOT optimized at all (Key example is A2DP is streamed at 96kbps and uses 100% of the cpu) and really pounds the cpu hard. That is the main reason for me getting the EVO. webOS is just too slow for me to be using it regularly. It's been a tough year (almost). That 4.3" screen is the other reason :D. Wow, I went off topic there. :eek:
Click to expand...

perhaps webOS is buggy and inefficient?
 
@Gekko, thanks for the invite!
I do have some questions/concerns for some of you that are familiar with the Android platform.
I have no experience with Android and would like to know some things, as I am considering the EVO when it comes out this summer.

I really like how easy it is to customize the pre. I like preware and how the patches are pick and choose. Is Android so easy to patch? From my initial research, it seems that you have to install custom rom's that are basically a collection of tweaks. It does not seem to me that you can pick and choose what patches you want to install. It really is what rom you want to install. Is this the case? Is the process easy? Are the roms easy to come by?
Getting root access to Android also seems to be more of a chore.
How does multi tasking work? I know it is not as ebb and flow as the pre, but is it a pain in the ass, or is it something that you get used to quickly?
Is tethering something that is easy to get going?
How would you rate the overall experience with Android. Is it easy to navigate?

Thanks for your input to those that are familiar with Android. I like to do as much research as possible before going into unfamiliar territory. Especially for something that I will be using on a daily basis. Don't get me wrong. I am in love with my pre, but the specs on the EVO are just too good to overlook. The android platform though may be the determining factor. Thanks for reading, and those that will hopefully answer.
 
I was one of those guys camped out in my local Sprint store parking lot for the launch. I got my Pre the first day and really had high hopes for it. The disappointment came with the horrible build quality and the absolute lack of apps. I spent so much time at my Sprint repair store that they knew me by name. Sprint replaced my phone 6 times in 6 months. Finally they just got tired of seeing me and offered me a Hero for a straight across trade. (Which I jumped at) I really love my Hero and I would have been content with it until I learned of the EVO. You can bet I will camp out again for the launch of the EVO.
 
Gekko said:
perhaps webOS is buggy and inefficient?
Click to expand...

@Gekko welcome to this forum btw! Anyways - yeah I think you hit the nail in the head when you said "inefficient" I mean the Pre has a GPU that isn't even being utilized in the regular phone operations. I mean seriously - they wrote an OS that is going purely on CPU speed when you have an idle GPU sitting there? Yeah they brought the PDK and all that crap but why not just utilize the GPU in all page transitions etc in the first place?? Don't get me wrong...I do LIKE my pre and it is a HUGE upgrade over my crappy Motorola Q but still Palm has a LONG way to go. The EVO on the other hand I'm sure will have its issues but with the resources Google, HTC, and Sprint has combined - I'm sure they will address bugs and issues much faster than Palm
 
cary328is said:
@Gekko welcome to this forum btw! Anyways - yeah I think you hit the nail in the head when you said "inefficient" I mean the Pre has a GPU that isn't even being utilized in the regular phone operations. I mean seriously - they wrote an OS that is going purely on CPU speed when you have an idle GPU sitting there? Yeah they brought the PDK and all that crap but why not just utilize the GPU in all page transitions etc in the first place?? Don't get me wrong...I do LIKE my pre and it is a HUGE upgrade over my crappy Motorola Q but still Palm has a LONG way to go. The EVO on the other hand I'm sure will have its issues but with the resources Google, HTC, and Sprint has combined - I'm sure they will address bugs and issues much faster than Palm
Click to expand...

Exactly right. I still think webOS is the best OS I have seen to date but the way it was coded was terrible. They should use the hardware in the phone rather than kill the CPU by making it handle every task. Also, designing a phone with 250mb RAM when the OS uses over 150mb alone was a HORRIBLE idea. The Pre and Pixi should have both had at least 512mb from the start...Along with a Snapdragon to help out the lack of optimization in the OS.
 
Preware and patching is very unique to webOS due to the nature of the OS. With the framework being javascript based essentially running inside a hidden browser. That gives access to the source code and allows the developers to patch and hack away. You don't have that capability in Android. You can't just magically add features you think are missing. You can't add reminder options, extended vibrations and so on. Then again, in webOS you don't have access to widgets that can give you instant access to information on your homescreen or with a simpe swipe. You can't customize your homescreen or homescreens. That ability to manipulate things to how I want it is one thing I like about Android. The elegance of manipulation of movement in webOS is gone. It's a bit more clunky. You can't swipe things away. You can't maneuver through cards to multitask. You can however just press and hold the home button and bring up your recent or active apps and go to them, ala PalmOS.

You really need to just play around with one and get a feel for it. Many of the zealots on precentral say they've used it and it sucks but they've maybe played with it for a few minutes. I've owned a Hero from day one and then a Moment from day one. I traded the Hero for the Pixi and thoroughly enjoy it outside of the many quirks in webOS, like being in the middle of a call today at 57% battery strength and then having the battery hit zero and my call disconnected, or the many spontaneous shut downs or too many cards errors and so on. I get some force closes of programs every now and then on my Moment, but that's about it.

The hardware aspect of the Evo will be amazing. I think the first time I hook it up to a big screen and stream something via wimax will be as cool as it gets. The hardware aspects make the grass greener on the Android side, but other than that, they are just two different OS's with different strengths and weaknesses, and you should really figure out what feature set attracts you most. Even the snazzy hardware can't mask issues and things you don't like for very long. It's like being in a bad relationship. Good sex can make you stay that much longer, but if the sex is bad you're gone quick. That's how it seems to be with phones and OS's.
 
Android isn't perfect and neither have the 13yr history PalmOS has which unfortunately just wasn't made to run with today's technology. And it's a shame ACCESS never got a chance to run with their Linux/PalmOS hybrid because many of us here just might be there. WebOS is running essentially in a hidden web browser that brings with it many strengths and weaknesses. Of course in its infancy you're going to see a bit of both and unfortunately more of the latter. Android ain't perfect either. Heck, it takes Sense to clean it up and give it some flow for an improved user experience. And talk about buggy and ineffecient, you have ZERO guarantee you'll be able to run the latest version of Android unless you have a Nexus 1 or some other phone running completely stock Android. Even the Moment running somewhat stock can't just arbitrarily be updated. Yeah you can root, but only a select few (in the grand scheme) will venture down that path. Yeah we can buy a new phone every year, but some don't. And one nice thing with webOS is that you'll more than likely be able to run the latest OS version on any device for quite awhile. Because it's purely CPU driven at the moment the early devices seem a bit slow, but maybe 2.0 hits and they overhaul the OS to access the GPU for general and core functionality. Well the Pre and Pixi get some new life breathed into them real quick. And maybe it was just easier to write it utilizing only the CPU. They needed to get something out the door. If they were any later to the game they wouldn't even be in the game. And Android isn't any better. Bashing an OS for being CPU driven and then coming to the Android camp? That just makes you stupid, ignorant or a combo of the two. The only reason Android is running smooth is because of the snapdragon processors being thrown in the new devices. They're in the same boat as webOS and their first gen devices.

I have my beefs with all the new OS's, but I can at least see the strengths in them, even the iphone (though a few of my friends will say different on that one). If Palm can come through on the hardware for gen 2 and solidify the OS a bit, it can stand a chance. If Android can create a little better variety in it's hardware (I personally would prefer a pixi like device with a bigger screen than the jumbotron Evo) and deal with the fracturing of it's OS with all the different devices running their own versions of it's OS they'll be a hit too. If they also manage to utilize the gpu for daily functionality then Apple should really be scared. Regardless, there's a lot of competition out there with all of the OS's and we the consumer get to benefit. Us Sprint users really get to benefit because we get to upgrade to the latest and greatest every year. And because all of our info is in the cloud, we can go back and forth to our heart's content without worrying about our info which is always at the top of our list for concerns when getting new phones and switching OS's. So let's leave the OS bashing behind and just focus on playing with some new gadgets, and ones that can hopefully be a benefit to our daily lives. And I'll step down from the pulpit now. :)

Gekko said:
perhaps webOS is buggy and inefficient?
Click to expand...
 
Just remember, putting your faith in Google and HTC, you have three layers of companies to get approval for an upgrade to get pushed to your phone. Google to HTC to Sprint. Palm? They've got quite a few developers who have been nothing but helpful in patching and tweaking the hell out of that OS. And the way that OS is written, it is much easier for them to address bugs and issues and fix them than it is for the xda developers. The whole process of rooting to get that kind of access is so much easier to do in webOS. And even when rooting you're at the mercy of the developers to really do anything. You're waiting for them to create the latest ROM for you to download. You don't pick or choose the things that are important to you. Features you may or may not need. You can remove some stock programs and such, but that's about it (as far as I know).

cary328is said:
The EVO on the other hand I'm sure will have its issues but with the resources Google, HTC, and Sprint has combined - I'm sure they will address bugs and issues much faster than Palm
Click to expand...
 
YEY Webos 1.4.1.1 is available for Sprint Palm Pre!!!

cricket....cricket.....cricket

Ok back to reading about the awesome EVO!!

<LOUD CHEERS>
 
cary328is said:
YEY Webos 1.4.1.1 is available for Sprint Palm Pre!!!

cricket....cricket.....cricket

Ok back to reading about the awesome EVO!!

<LOUD CHEERS>
Click to expand...

Argh. Now I need to uninstall the overclock and install the update! Can't wait for the EVO.
 
dbpaddler said:
Bashing an OS for being CPU driven and then coming to the Android camp? That just makes you stupid, ignorant or a combo of the two....
Click to expand...

Wow this is a little harsh. Did I mention I have 2 lines and I'm keeping my Pre as a secondary device. Jumping from forums and "bashing" an OS? Stupid? Ignorant? more like opinionated. And I'm entitled to bash a gadget I own (and hold stock in). I don't want to get into all the details of the OS. Trust me I do that all day as an engineer. I'm just here to speak as I want and express my opinions freely. Stupid? Ignorant? Nope. I highly doubt that with a bachelors/masters degree in EE and an MBA. Cheers and let's keep the personal attacks off the table and focus on the gadgets
 
just generally speaking since both OS's are in the same camp. So how can you bash one for going that route and not the one who's phone you're clamoring over? Both suck on old hardware plain and simple. Both will run much smoother on faster CPU's. The iPhone is the only one of the three that does it right yet many dismiss it because it doesn't multitask and, well...is just Apple. The 800mhz patch on the Pre shows much better performance (since there's no new hardware to compare it to). So if you're bashing webOS for being designed poorly then maybe not stupid or ignorant (well only if you didn't know Android was designed the same way) but yes to a bit hypocritical if Android is to be all great and wonderful. You can keep opinionated if you like :) Better?

If you seriously think I'm calling people stupid you obviously haven't seen many of my posts/convos. I think Mikah over at PC was the only one I've personally mixed it up with. But when you have an accountant that sits behind a desk thinking he knows everything and thinks having a Centro is unprofessional....well... I say things for effect and to stir things up, hence your post :) Sue me. Just seeing this thread taking a turn to being no better than the threads over at PC many of us are trying to get away from. Which again, seems a bit hypocritical like putting down webOS for being CPU driven when Android performs the same way.

Gets even better when a majority of the people here haven't even owned an Android phone and many have probably said at one point in time they'd never buy a phone without a real keyboard yet the Evo is already the savior.

And personally I don't really care what others do for a living unless we're shooting the breeze off topic. If you can string a few sentences together without tons of misspells, bad grammar, ebonics and so on I'll give you the same level of respect whether you have a GED or a doctorate.

cary328is said:
Wow this is a little harsh. Did I mention I have 2 lines and I'm keeping my Pre as a secondary device. Jumping from forums and "bashing" an OS? Stupid? Ignorant? more like opinionated. And I'm entitled to bash a gadget I own (and hold stock in). I don't want to get into all the details of the OS. Trust me I do that all day as an engineer. I'm just here to speak as I want and express my opinions freely. Stupid? Ignorant? Nope. I highly doubt that with a bachelors/masters degree in EE and an MBA. Cheers and let's keep the personal attacks off the table and focus on the gadgets
Click to expand...
 
ok gotcha. I do take that back then. Maybe I'm just going into this blindly and I do admit, I've never had an Android phone or got into its guts to play with it so I'm just blindly hoping for something "better" I guess. IMO Webos could have been designed better but yeah you're right I need to play with Android first before handing it a trophy. So I'll take that. I didn't really want this to turn into PC. The whole reason I started this thread was to get away from this kind of back and forth that was going on there and to talk about Pre users who are considering getting the EVO. That's it. Thanks for joining dbpaddler and I hope to see more of your input/insight here.
 
I get blunt and really don't mean to offend. It can be fun to prod with a stick every now and then though...haha. It'd just be nice to keep the eye on the prize and not focusing on the negative.

So that aside, both OS's have their pluses. As someone mentioned above they really like the way they can patch webOS to their liking. And that won't happen in Android even with rooting. For me that was the one huge plus with webOS that made it worthwhile. On Android, the fun part that draws you in are the widgets and access to information you have at your fingertips. Sportstap, Agenda views like PureCal and CalWidget, zipping through your friend's updates on Facebook. All things you can just throw on a homepage and see with nothing more than a quick swipe if it's not on the main screen. Sense is definitely a plus over stock Android too. It helps out in email, improves the look of the calendar and contacts. There are some useful widgets too. There's a lot to like. Media is just ok from the player point of view. I think Sense added its own player, but the ones in the market are a bit lackluster and you play videos from the Gallery which is just a media folder system. Again, lackluster.

It'll be fun to see some of the HD media programs and content they have in store for the Evo. It'll also be interesting to see some of that content get ported over to other Android devices. If they can get the speed from wifi, they should be able to take advantage of it.
 
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