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Postal Service Discussion
- Thread starter nlsme
- Start date
Seems your arguing semantics. a "capital contribution" means investment, which means, in the business world, they expect to get paid back with interest. But I don't think the Gov seriously expects a return on that capital investment, its pumping it up with Tax dollars, calling it a "capital investment" so book keeping wise the feds didn't "give" them anything.
At the end of the day, for all intents and purposes, the feds are giving the post office money. If it was a well run business they would be able to find capital investment from private sources, because they could expect a return on the investment.
Again, your trying to argue the USPS is an example of the how the government runs a good business... its nothing of the sort. How ever if you say, the USPS is a good example of how the government subsidizes a service well, that a different story. The USPS does do a lot with limited funds from the gov... as a subsidized service, it might be an example of how to Gov works... as a business its an example of how the government fails.
At the end of the day, for all intents and purposes, the feds are giving the post office money. If it was a well run business they would be able to find capital investment from private sources, because they could expect a return on the investment.
Again, your trying to argue the USPS is an example of the how the government runs a good business... its nothing of the sort. How ever if you say, the USPS is a good example of how the government subsidizes a service well, that a different story. The USPS does do a lot with limited funds from the gov... as a subsidized service, it might be an example of how to Gov works... as a business its an example of how the government fails.
Page 71 doesnt have the word "federal" anywhere on it. Guess you proved you dont read. However, I will admit the federal government does REIMBURSE the usps for delivery for the blind.
??? do you know what US Government means?
A capital contribution is a contribution of capital, in the form of money or property, to a business by an owner, partner, or shareholder. The contribution increases the owner's equity interest in the business.
And the routes are part of the "fun facts" posted ALL OVER the internet. Including the usps website. 3 years of deficits is hardly proof as to what the deficits were for 30.
Your claim of no taxpayer money is false. ~3 billion a year capital investment is tax payer money.
If the US Government was giving 3 billion a year to a failing private company, would you support that, and point to how well that company was managed? The bank/auto bail outs were "capital investments" as well.
Face it, as a business, the USPS is run poorly. But it is subsidized by tax payers, to the tune of ~3 billion a year to provide a (somewhat) needed service at a pricing structure that wouldn't exist in a free market.
Be honest with what the USPS does, and you might not get so much resistance.
Whats also interesting....
Total Expenses 2009: 71.910 B
Compensation and Benefits: 53.154 B
Retiree Health Benefits: 3.390 B
78.6% of their operating cost is retirement plans and health insurance.
Which the USPS states openly, Compensation and Benefits
What's included?
USPS - Compensation and Benefits
How does that fit with UPS or FedEX?
Total Expenses 2009: 71.910 B
Compensation and Benefits: 53.154 B
Retiree Health Benefits: 3.390 B
78.6% of their operating cost is retirement plans and health insurance.
Which the USPS states openly, Compensation and Benefits
What's included?
USPS - Compensation and Benefits
How does that fit with UPS or FedEX?
Prettysure that when you say they dont "give" them money, Im not the one using semantics.
Go read up on what a "capital contribution" is. Its when the owner/shareholder of a company "gives" the company money, in exchange for a larger % ownership, meaning a larger % of profits... the USPS doesn't make profits, investing in USPS is a loosing investment, which is why the US Government is the only one that will do it.
Page 71 doesnt have the word "federal" anywhere on it. Guess you proved you dont read. However, I will admit the federal government does REIMBURSE the usps for delivery for the blind.
http://www.usps.com/financials/_pdf/FY_2009_10K_Report_Final.pdf
I didn't think I would have to get this specific...
"Capital Contributions of the U.S. Government"
It is broken up with "Capital Contributions of" on one line, with "the U.S. Government" on the next line.
The U.S. Government is commonly referred to as the "Federal" government.
Man, I know you don't realize it... but you really are embarrassing yourself with that.
Please read post 207. I already spoke of this. Then read the rezt, and see where I adress the failed point you make here.
http://www.usps.com/financials/_pdf/FY_2009_10K_Report_Final.pdf
I didn't think I would have to get this specific...
"Capital Contributions of the U.S. Government"
It is broken up with "Capital Contributions of" on one line, with "the U.S. Government" on the next line.
The U.S. Government is commonly referred to as the "Federal" government.
Man, I know you don't realize it... but you really are embarrassing yourself with that.
So, who exactlt are the interests expenses paid to then?
There is no obligation to repay a "capital contribution" as I understand it. Its an owner pumping money into a corporation in exchange for increased % ownership.
The interest expenses for the most part probably go to The Treasury
And, I just want to point out that of the 5 years posted, 3 resulted in profits. Just saying.
No, they ended each of the 5 years like this for income
2005 +$1.445 Billion
2006 +$0.900 Billion
2007 -$5.142 Billion
2008 -$2.806 Billion
2009 -$3.794 Billion
They ended 3 years with a positive Balance. But that was only because of the Taxpayer money that they receive from the Federal Government, and the previous years ending balance.
They lost money for 2007, 2008, 2009.
They ended with a negative balance for 2008, 2009.
You are confusing the ending balance with the net income for the year.
And the routes are part of the "fun facts" posted ALL OVER the internet. Including the usps website. 3 years of deficits is hardly proof as to what the deficits were for 30.
So, you cannot provide any... as long as you are as much as admitting that... we're good.
So, you cannot provide any... as long as you are as much as admitting that... we're good.
You are the one that thinks using manhattens population density to explain why there would be an 80% reduction in costs holds. Look at a pop/density map for the us. Your numbers fail. Again.
Ok, so it seems they might be counting "capital contributions" as debt.
Also.
Citizens Against Government Waste: USPS Wants To Branch Out
GAO-09-332T, U.S. Postal Service: Deteriorating Postal Finances Require Aggressive Actions to Reduce Costs
No one, including the GAO thinks the USPS is doing good business, except you.
....
And some of the Interest expenses are, "Deferred Retirement Costs"
http://www.usps.com/strategicplanning/cs05/chp3_005.html
A November 5, 2009 GAO report stated that “USPS debt increased at the end of fiscal year 2009 by the annual statutory limit of $3 billion, bringing outstanding debt to $10.2 billion. At this rate, USPS will reach its total $15 billion statutory debt limit in fiscal year 2011.”
Also.
USPS officials are seeking to staunch the fiscal bleeding in a number of ways. They are petitioning Congress for permission to suspend Saturday deliveries, which would reportedly yield $3.5 billion in annual savings, and want to reduce the service’s annual $5.5 billion obligation to pre-fund its retiree healthcare benefits through 2016. Postmaster General John Potter calls the pre-funding obligations “impossible demands.” However, the accounting quick-fix will only be a short-term band-aid on the gaping, long-term $50 billion liability for health benefits for future retirees. In July, 2009 the GAO added the financial condition of the USPS to its High-Risk List of federal areas in need of transformation.
Citizens Against Government Waste: USPS Wants To Branch Out
GAO-09-332T, U.S. Postal Service: Deteriorating Postal Finances Require Aggressive Actions to Reduce Costs
No one, including the GAO thinks the USPS is doing good business, except you.
....
And some of the Interest expenses are, "Deferred Retirement Costs"
http://www.usps.com/strategicplanning/cs05/chp3_005.html
USPS - Postal Facts
In here you will find the routes. You will also find, in more then one place the number "0" next to"money received from taxpayers to run the post office".
15b after thirty years of deficits, with annual budgets of 60-80b. Yeah, big losses there.
And, for the record.I have ready stated they arent perfect. I said that things can and will be done to correct losses. Your links seem to agree with that.
In here you will find the routes. You will also find, in more then one place the number "0" next to"money received from taxpayers to run the post office".
15b after thirty years of deficits, with annual budgets of 60-80b. Yeah, big losses there.
Ok, so it seems they might be counting "capital contributions" as debt.
Also.
Citizens Against Government Waste: USPS Wants To Branch Out
GAO-09-332T, U.S. Postal Service: Deteriorating Postal Finances Require Aggressive Actions to Reduce Costs
No one, including the GAO thinks the USPS is doing good business, except you.
....
And some of the Interest expenses are, "Deferred Retirement Costs"
Chapter 3 Financial Highlights
And, for the record.I have ready stated they arent perfect. I said that things can and will be done to correct losses. Your links seem to agree with that.
And, for the record.I have ready stated they arent perfect. I said that things can and will be done to correct losses. Your links seem to agree with that.
the biggest issue with this is that any changes must be approved by congress. they cany close up offices without approval, or get rid of saturday delivery, ect
the biggest issue with this is that any changes must be approved by congress. they cany close up offices without approval, or get rid of saturday delivery, ect
In 2009, the usps reduced its work hours by 114 million hours. The equivelant of 65,000 full time employees. Only 98 of the companies in the fortune 500 have workforces that large. No act of congress there.
In 2009, the usps reduced its work hours by 114 million hours. The equivelant of 65,000 full time employees. Only 98 of the companies in the fortune 500 have workforces that large. No act of congress there.
by current law they can only close locations for maint
U.S. Postal Service to close 2,000 post offices | Chicago Breaking Business
and
H. Res. 173, a resolution that expresses
USPS - Postal Facts
In here you will find the routes. You will also find, in more then one place the number "0" next to"money received from taxpayers to run the post office".
Ahh... so now we see, that you weren't giving us ALL the information.
The shortest "RURAL" route is 1.9 miles, and covers 640 customers
USPS said:The longest regular rural route is Route 1 in Fordsville, ND. The route travels 176.5 miles daily and delivers to 174 boxes.
The shortest rural delivery route is Route 42 in Henderson, NV. The route travels 1.9 miles daily and delivers to 640 boxes.
This says nothing of city routes whatsoever. Nice attempt to deceive us NLSME... but I'm going to have to call balderdash on you yet again.
15b after thirty years of deficits, with annual budgets of 60-80b. Yeah, big losses there.
Uhh... the GAO (Government Accounting Office) thinks so, and I assume they know a bit more than you on the subject.
In the long term, USPS action beyond its current cost-cutting efforts
is urgently needed to reduce costs and improve efficiency. GAO agrees
with the Postal Regulatory Commission that unfavorable mail volume and
revenue trends may imperil USPS’s financial viability and that USPS
must dramatically reduce its costs to remain viable.
And lets look at the numbers:
FedEx
Revenue: 37.22 b
Operating Expense: 26.89 b
Debt: 1.92 b
USPS
Revenue: 68.043 b
Operating Expense: 71.83 b
debt: 10.2 b
You can't look at those numbers and say the USPS is doing just as good as the private sector. 1st, Fedex revenue exceeds expenses, you learn that in business 101. Second, FedEx debt to revenue ratio is about 5%, USPS is 15%. USPS does about double the revenue of FedEX but has about 5 times the debt.
Face it, USPS as a successful government businesses is a BS. As a useful subsidized service, maybe.
edit:
Sources:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=FDX+Key+Statistics
http://financials.morningstar.com/income-statement/is.html?t=FDX®ion=USA&culture=en-us
http://membership.cagw.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=12384
http://www.usps.com/financials/_pdf/FY_2009_10K_Report_Final.pdf