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Postal Service Discussion
- Thread starter nlsme
- Start date
I doubt FedEx and UPS, pay 80% of their operations costs to compensation and benefits (they might)... Unions have milked the USPS dry, just like they did GE.
What exactly are you arguing for here nlsme? what specifically, not just "go post office," but what specific point are you trying to make about the post office?
What exactly are you arguing for here nlsme? what specifically, not just "go post office," but what specific point are you trying to make about the post office?
That they are a shining example of what the government does right. Providing a vital service to ALL Americans, at universal rates. With no(or minimal appearantly[they lie, so I need my facts straight, or it is unfounded]) cost to the taxpayer. My original statement. The whole financial came from others calling the usps a "failure". It isn't. It never will be. Despite a few years of financial woes, that happen to be fealt by private corporations as well. Now, I ask all of you what government agency would you say, does better?
Added 200 to their fleet of 20,000 green vehicles, but ok.
Actually, with the 85% to 95% efficiency of the hydraulic system, once the UPS trucks entered their route, they would use little fuel at all, whereas the LLV are gas HOGS on their route, and off. Their engines remain running the whole time, which the hydraulic hybrids do not.
You should read up a bit more on this before you make uneducated statements.
If you did, you deleted it when you edited your post.
Loans that are never repaid, aren't loans.
That makes them taxpayer money given to the USPS in order for them to operate.
Could you please point me to any private industry company that would still be in business with 500 million in losses every year for 30 years?
The USPS is a failed business model. One we should pray never gets repeated by anything for any purpose.
Let's see... They pay more in EVERY category than UPS. So, I'm guessing NO. They aren't on par with private industry.
And that 108000 MAX is also the max for an admin, and I'm 100% positive that's not even in the ball park.
We've been over the pay comparisons, and USPS employees are grossly overpaid.
You can bring up that argument again, but you were trounced once already.
An unsustainable, failing business model is a shining example of what the government does right? I'd have to disagree.
Hardly vital anymore.
When I think minimal, Billions of dollars isn't what I think about.
You mean the ever mounting losses, and the failing business model doesn't make it a failure?
Everyone with any knowledge on the subject disagrees, including the USPS, and the GAO.
Felt by private corporations as well?
UPS - United Parcel Service Inc Financial Results - CNNMoney.com
UPS has made a profit every year for the past four years, while the USPS is going deeper and deeper into the red.
FDX - Fedex Corp Financial Results - CNNMoney.com
Fed Ex has made a profit every year for the past four years as well.
If this is your standard, then I can see why you have the opinion of the USPS that you do.
However, when most people think of doing things right, they think of them actually being done right. That would mean comparing them to businesses that are doing it right.
actually compared to other things the goverment does the usps is a shining example
can you name any other gov program that is only 15billion in debt?
My ups guy laughed at this thread. By the apples to oranges conparisons. He said his truck gets SIX miles to the gallon. SIX, on their widely used trucks(read, majority). He also said he drives 30 miles BEFORE the first stop on his route. Thats more fuel then the average llv (that averages 17 mpg)on a normal 20 mile route. BEFORE the first stop. 6!!! He also said those ups pay scales are skewed by the other 199 countries they do business in. He said he makes well over 40 grand. And, ups WANTS to make money, the usps, not so much. See how comparing their financials fail? I will not respond to you anymore. I get "warnings", for stating facts.
Watch out, he will say Saudi Arabia!!!!
Great! Problem solved, but why haven't they done that already?
iirc congress must approve postage increases
the previous postmaster wanted to balance it by cutting saturday delivery out. congress wouldnt approve that either, the postal union lobied against it
3devious
Android Expert
First, even if the functions of the USPS were privatized and the companies were able to spread their costs over the volumes of mail, there is no evidence that prices of those services would fall by that amount. As the companies are able to compete, the prices should stabilize to a point where people are still willing to pay while companies feel that they are making enough of a profit to bother providing the service.
To argue that we would save a lot of money by getting rid of the USPS altogether is somewhat dubious but would make for an interesting experiment. I am willing to bet someone a couple bucks that I wouldn't be paying Fedex 80% less to deliver my stuff if they were able to deal in volume as suggested. If they were able to cut costs by 80%, why would they pass all of that on to the customer. Even I wouldn't do that!
Second, if you feel that you are getting warned for posting "facts," you must have run out of real facts and are only left with insults. No one is buying that the USPS is doing a good job. To say that they aren't failing as badly as mant other government programs (and I'll give you that) does not make me feel that we should laud them as shining examples of federal capability.
Just because the GAO is run by soul-less little trolls that like to crush the dignity of their fellow bureaucrats does not make them wrong. You may also think that Byteware is an ass for pointing to facts that you think he shouldn't but there we are again.
Are you really talking to your UPS guy about us? No offense, but there is no way in HELL I will admit to anyone offline (or outside of this section of the forum) that I am trying to explain that the USPS is not in any universe performing in an acceptable manner to someone who refuses to get past their propaganda because they are saving a few dollars. I may as well start telling everyone that I play D&D while I am at it.
PS: if anyone here is from the GAO, I apologize (but only if your mom writes us a note stating that you are not a soul-less troll, little or otherwise.)
To argue that we would save a lot of money by getting rid of the USPS altogether is somewhat dubious but would make for an interesting experiment. I am willing to bet someone a couple bucks that I wouldn't be paying Fedex 80% less to deliver my stuff if they were able to deal in volume as suggested. If they were able to cut costs by 80%, why would they pass all of that on to the customer. Even I wouldn't do that!
Second, if you feel that you are getting warned for posting "facts," you must have run out of real facts and are only left with insults. No one is buying that the USPS is doing a good job. To say that they aren't failing as badly as mant other government programs (and I'll give you that) does not make me feel that we should laud them as shining examples of federal capability.
Just because the GAO is run by soul-less little trolls that like to crush the dignity of their fellow bureaucrats does not make them wrong. You may also think that Byteware is an ass for pointing to facts that you think he shouldn't but there we are again.
Are you really talking to your UPS guy about us? No offense, but there is no way in HELL I will admit to anyone offline (or outside of this section of the forum) that I am trying to explain that the USPS is not in any universe performing in an acceptable manner to someone who refuses to get past their propaganda because they are saving a few dollars. I may as well start telling everyone that I play D&D while I am at it.
PS: if anyone here is from the GAO, I apologize (but only if your mom writes us a note stating that you are not a soul-less troll, little or otherwise.)
Your comparing apples to oranges. The USPS can, "Provide a vital service to ALL Americans, at universal rates," while still being a business failure.
Take road construction. The US Government built the largest highway system on the planet, no company would have financed that, because there was no direct return on the investment. As a business investment, the US Highway system was a waste of money... as infrastructure it's paid off many times over.
You can admit the USPS is a business failure, but is still an example of what the government does right. Provide a valuable service for nominal cost. The goal of the USPS isn't a profit, its to deliver the mail, profit is a nice added bonus. The goal of UPS and FedEX is profit, delivering packages is just the way they generate that profit.
They have two different goals in mind, its apples and oranges.
Wow, you really don't understand much about Gas mileage do you. The way postal workers drive, the constant starting and stopping, a 20 mile route will take much more than 5 gallons.
For that to be the case, then our truck drivers would need to be making 6 figures, which they clearly are not.
Why wouldn't he be? The average for a truck driver is nearly $60 grand at UPS.
UPS wants to make money, and does.
USPS wants to break even and is close to $15 Billion in the red.
See just above this quote.
One achieves their goal, while the other fails miserably.
You don't state facts, you make unfounded statements, and then expect them to stand unless someone disproves them. (Which has happened in almost every single case on this topic).
If you want to compare it other government agencies... I guess it is the best that they can do.
That's not what I call "doing it right".
Each year, the USPS is delivering about 87% of the mail it delivered the year before. This is causing about 7 Billion in lost revenues year over year.
Sure you can keep raising rates, but eventually that becomes counterproductive.
They are losing their revenue stream, and quickly. They peaked in 2001, and every year after that they have delivered less mail than the year before.
The USPS is failing. It will continue to fail. It will be brought into the US Government budget and become a completely subsidized service, because it isn't worth people actually using anymore.
USPS - Five-Day Delivery: Home
Some things are valuable and needed, but don't pay off in direct profit... these are the things that government can best handle.
before phones, computers and email, the USPS was a vital institution, its becoming less relevant today, which is whats causing their financial woes.
I can see a time when they finally close up shop, sell off assets to private carriers, as long as they carry out some of the same mandates. US mail delivery will at some point be privatized.
But I can give credit where credit is do, the USPS provided (a still does) a valuable service at below market costs... but that is also an example of them failing as a business.
But thats not a failure of the USPS, its a changing market environment. A corporation would meet that change with new revenue streams, (the USPS tries to do this somewhat), but the end goal of USPS is deliver the mail, not profits. So, while, not responding to meet a changing market is a business failure, the primary goal of the USPS is still a success, deliver mail for a cheap price to all.
they should at a minimum break even. they need to do something to stop the bleeding. riase prices, stop sat deliver, close some offices
whatever.
I completely agree.
I also completely agree.
It is an example of the failings of government. Government cannot respond as a business must to outside pressures. They cannot make the hard decisions that people won't like. They cannot get rid of Saturday delivery, no matter how much money they lose, because of their constituents. They cannot raise rates, no matter how much money they lose because of their constituents. The very involvement of government in an endeavor mandates that the business decisions become subpar and the "business" venture is doomed to financial ruin. It may take it's time getting there, but it WILL get there.
Which they are not going to be able to do. The fact that the government is involved in business decisions dooms the USPS to failure.
Absolutely agree.
They peaked in 2006.
Wow, you must not know much about numbers. 17 is bigger then 6. Or physics, 24000 pounds takes more energy to get going than 5000 pounds. And, show ONE post where I say the usps "business model" should be adopted by other "business".