Proof that the Democrats are Socialists

[EarlyMon]

And that makes it acceptable?

No, it makes it understandable.

I guess I simply expected some tact from fellow members. Not sure why though. You yourself pointed out it's been going on 'forever', why expect anything else, right?

Yep - all we ask is that people please polite.

Stand back, take it all in - this forums has political opinions - and opinions by definition aren't really wrong - they're opinions and everyone has a right to theirs.

I guess I will just take statements like that and dismiss them as unintelligent and unwarranted attacks to try and get a rise out of people - which they almost always seem to be anyway, sadly.

Yeah - or just embrace the diversity, that's what I do.

The world would be a boring place if we all thought the same.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Let me see here...
Socialism- a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

So lets us look at what socialism can do that captialism cant, shall we?
Socialism won 2 world wars and makes sure the communist/terrorist/Chinese dont come knocking on your door. Captialism sold weapons to the Germans and the Japanese.

Socialism has educated ever president since John Quincy Adams.

Socialism put a man on the moon.

Socialism is taking care of about 90% of your parents or grandparents.

Socialism has created the largest system of travel in the world.

Socialism created the internet.

Socialism created gps.

Socialism built out your wireless data system. Out of the 15 billion dollars it takes to build out 4g technologies, the cellphone companies get about 17 billion in subsidies from the government. Not including the 5 billion planned for next year.

Socialism educates your kids, even if you home/private school them.

Socialism feeds you, your cat, fish and dog, farm subsidies.

Socialism makes your lights work.

Socialism keeps the water following.

Socialism makes your waste go away.

And when your 1 million dollar home gets hit by a natural disaster, socialism will show up to get you back on your feet.

So cry about the evils of socialism.

If the government did not give money to complanies and share the wealth, you could not drive down the street.

Everything you do has socialism running through it. I dare you not to use socialism.

 

[ElasticNinja]

IDK, the free market and deregulation IS working well for Somalia - there economy is growing

 

[RiverOfIce]

IDK, the free market and deregulation IS working well for Somalia - there economy is growing

Exactly. Free market is a paradox. It can not really happen. Lets see why. Free market- an economic system in which prices and wages are determined by unrestricted competition between businesses, without government regulation or fear of monopolies. You see the problem, if you don't have government intervention, you will create monopolies. Which can only be prevented by an outside force, which would require regulation. If you had a free market companies would be able to dump toxic chemicals everywhere they want. They would be able to strip mine with out any control. They would be able to place toxic chemicals in your food and items. With out rules, it would quickly resort to what we saw in the housing market crash, only worst because there would be no laws. Every company would become a scam. In order to protect the consumer from abuse, you need rules and regulations. In order to protect the honest business, you need rules and regulations. You need to have them and actively enforce them. If you don't actively enforce them, you will get the house crash. So free market is a paradox, or at least a logic problem which says that you need rules to protect against abuse and illegal activities, but who decides what that is, is up to the business. Which means that it turns into to, get as much power as you can, ie pay for political campaigns. Use lobbyist to force what helps you and if you can hurt other companies. Which means free market in the real world, is just dirty capitalism, with this idea that you help friend and hurt enemies. What is capitalism-an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth. Which never has worked because nearly every corporation know to man kind is help, one way or another, by the government. AND the government has always been the major source of wealth distribution. What do we really have, well we have, like very system, a soc-capitalistic system, which seems to work out very well. What ever the private industry can not do, the government does. ie, healthcare, roads, water, power, and a few hundred other things.

 

[lordofthereef]

Yeah - or just embrace the diversity, that's what I do.

The world would be a boring place if we all thought the same.

I am not sure I would call any of what was said diversity, but to each his own good sir.

 

[EarlyMon]

I am not sure I would call any of what was said diversity, but to each his own good sir.

See, that's diversity, right there.

 

[ElasticNinja]

What I don't get is that the OP says it like the Democrats are fascists.. is Socialism thought to be that horrible in the US?

 

[ParishL31]

What I don't get is that the OP says it like the Democrats are fascists.. is Socialism thought to be that horrible in the US?

I think the problem is many people confuse Socialism with Communism. As River pointed out, there are many good things that are socialist that we do not complain about in our everyday lives as is. It's when you get too socialistic and go into the communism territory is when it gets bad, and that is what a majority of people immidately think when they hear socialist.

 

[lordofthereef]

I think the problem is many people confuse Socialism with Communism.

I would take it one step further... many think that if it isn't a democracy (regardless of what it is - this means anything that isn't literally name a democracy), it is something the US should want nothing to do with. Far too many are worried about words and far too few truly understand their definitions.

 

[EarlyMon]

I think the problem is many people confuse Socialism with Communism. As River pointed out, there are many good things that are socialist that we do not complain about in our everyday lives as is. It's when you get too socialistic and go into the communism territory is when it gets bad, and that is what a majority of people immidately think when they hear socialist.

Yeap.

The Communist Manefesto was rife with the word socialist. And we started to care about that right after there was some big run-in with some national socialist party somewhere, probably a lot of people heard of it. And then there was that CCCP thing, where part of that kinda translated to socialist.

So, basically, calling someone a Socialist here in the US is tantamount to calling them a Commie or a Fascist, in most corners - but usually, a Commie.

 

[lordofthereef]

So, basically, calling someone a Socialist here in the US is tantamount to calling them a Commie or a Fascist, in most corners - but usually, a Commie.

Perhaps to those of the "older" generation. Not so sure about how younger folks feel. Could be wrong here, of course.

 

[EarlyMon]

Perhaps to those of the "older" generation. Not so sure about how younger folks feel. Could be wrong here, of course.

Well, us older folks still actually believe we're the younger folks - you guys we don't know what to think, you're all too conservative at parties.

No, there's truth in what you say, I'm definitely showing my age.

Many of my friends had read the Communist Manifesto during high school, some of us had even found our way to the Capitalist Manifesto - and we wrote papers on it.

We grew up with fallout shelters in our schools and had regular fallout drills - as well as duck and cover ones - right up there with fire drills.

Lots of us made babies with a palpable fear that they'd die in a holocaust brought on by toe-to-toe nuclear combat with the Rooskies.

And growing up, our dads would drink and tell us how easy it we had it because we didn't have to face the horrors of Nazi Germany.

So yeah - maybe what I said is generational, so you tell me - did it get transmitted or handed down? I'm honestly asking.

 

[lordofthereef]

So yeah - maybe what I said is generational, so you tell me - did it get transmitted or handed down? I'm honestly asking.

For me, no. I am an intersting situation though. I am first generation American, with my parents having emigrated from communist (at the time) Hungary (they HATED it, if that wasn't clear LOL). one would think I would be effected just as badly (or worse) as you, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Most systems have at least *some* good ideas. I am personally willing to say that we can adopt some ideas, but only the good ones.

 

[EarlyMon]

Yeah, parts of my generation once believed that we could adopt better parts of the communist system, too.

Then, we collectively said, screw that, changed our minds, elected Reagan, and proceeded to engage in a threatened leverage-buyout of the Soviet Union (masked as an arms race) and the rest is history.

And given we've had no pertinent YouTubes on this entire page, and given that it's TGIF, and I've got a passel of grandkids coming to spend the night, and given that I've just mentioned Reagan, and given that I keep hearing how liberal the modding is here in the political forums, might as well just offer a snappy tune and great vid that says quite a bit, if not all -

YouTube - Genesis Land of Confusion

Substitute 99 Red Balloons or I Hope The Russians Love Their Children Too, and you've got the idea.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Democrats are fascists

That made my brain hurt.

Let us look up those words.

Democrat-a person who believes in the political or social equality of all people. Democrat | Define Democrat at Dictionary.com

Left wing-members of a liberal or radical political party, or those favoring extensive political reform. Left wing | Define Left wing at Dictionary.com

liberalism- a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavor, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties.
Liberalism | Define Liberalism at Dictionary.com
========================================
ONE SIDE FULL TERMS
====================================
Republican party-Compare Democratic Party the more conservative of the two major political parties in the US: established around 1854.

Right wing- members of a conservative or reactionary political party, or those opposing extensive political reform.

Fascism- An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can not have a democrat that is a fascist, you if he is a fascist is he by definition a conservative. You can not be a conservative democrat unless you believe everything is equal.

Now if everything was equal and everyone was happy then you could be a fascist conservative democrat. But if that happens, would you complain about being happy?

 

[ElasticNinja]

liberal

good point Lord about socialism - it should be noted that in an interesting twist Communist parties are operating democratically - in places like India (esp Kerela) or Moldova in Europe, altho as these states have small (not tiny) private sectors they are more Ultra-Socialist


What surprises me is the lack of Socialism fear in Europe (my country had it but that was a Church run State issue) - given how close it was to us


Sadly many in former communist countries want a return to the old days- mostly in the lighter regimes like Poland... hopefully EU membership will make for greater progress

 

[ElasticNinja]

LOL River, its just a figure of speech- Fascism is the worst political ideal so i used it

If I was in the US I would have to vote Democrat

 

[FreakyLocz14]

LOL River, its just a figure of speech- Fascism is the worst political ideal so i used it

If I was in the US I would have to vote Democrat

Why would you HAVE to vote Democrat? Vote for whatever party you agree with the most.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Why would you HAVE to vote Democrat? Vote for whatever party you agree with the most.

Libertarian is out of the question - ive seen the damge their policies do first hand

Republicans are too fiscally atrocious (hell, they make the Dems almost look not terrible), i dont agree with their social policies, and they are being slowly taken over by a vocal erm crazy minority, the Tea Party

 

[RiverOfIce]

Why would you HAVE to vote Democrat? Vote for whatever party you agree with the most.

 

[noah way]

America is a socialist state - but only for the wealthy and corporations.

The financial service corporations that screwed the economy got bailed out with taxpayer money. There have been no prosecutions to date, and hardly any investigations. We don't even know where the first trillion went ...

Regan cut the highest tax rate (on the rich) by 50% and raised the lowest tax rate 50%. This was the beginning of the end of the middle class.

In recent news, General Electric paid NO TAXES on $15 billion in profits AND received $3.5 billion in subsidies (from taxpayers, of course). In the most ironic twist imaginable, GE Chairman and CEO Jeffrey Immelt was appointed by Obama as an "economic advisor".

Those who cry about socialism being the death of America are correct, they just don't understand how the system works and who the beneficiaries are.

 

[RiverOfIce]

America is a socialist state - but only for the wealthy and corporations.

So the poor get zero help in america? Don't you think that is a little extreme?

 

[ParishL31]

The financial service corporations that screwed the economy got bailed out with taxpayer money. There have been no prosecutions to date, and hardly any investigations. We don't even know where the first trillion went ...

Banks are a business. They're in it to make money. They do so by making loans. The thousands of people that irresponsibly took their loans and ended up defaulting are just as responsible for the bank crashes as the banks themselves. Just because someone offers you a loan doesn't mean you'll be able to pay it back and certainly doesn't mean you have to take it.

In recent news, General Electric paid NO TAXES on $15 billion in profits AND received $3.5 billion in subsidies (from taxpayers, of course). In the most ironic twist imaginable, GE Chairman and CEO Jeffrey Immelt was appointed by Obama as an "economic advisor".

Their profits were overseas. That profit also stayed overseas, and if it does enter their US operations somehow it will be taxed. That non-taxed profit never touches US soil or anything to do with the US, so why hsould it be taxed in the US?

Their US operations had losses in which tax law states they can indeed get their tax "benefit" from their net operating loss. That "benefit" simply allows them to take that ~$400 million loss and be excused from ~$400 million worth of taxable income in future and past years. So no, taxpayers did not pay GE for their "benefit".

Also in the field of Ecnomics, the number one rule is "Don't leave money on the table". GE accountants did so in a clever use of accounting and it's all 100% legal. They made the most money out of the situation. Sounds like they understand the situation and laws that apply, and are definately candidates for the adivising job. I don't see how they wouldn't be qualified for the job just because they saved their company money.

 

[EarlyMon]

False Economy 101 - corporations lobby lawmakers for favorable tax laws, hire creative accountants and focus on that as "money making" - while R&D and production jobs go overseas, the country goes to the dogs, and nimble foreign interests eat us for lunch.

All perfectly legal.

 

[ParishL31]

False Economy 101 - corporations lobby lawmakers for favorable tax laws, hire creative accountants and focus on that as "money making" - while R&D and production jobs go overseas, the country goes to the dogs, and nimble foreign interests eat us for lunch.

All perfectly legal.

I will admit it does sound terrible, but it's business. Someone has to lose in order for someone to win. If we keep jobs here, the costs to the company will be higher and their prices will in result be higher and we'll be compaining then too. Can't have everything.