Purchasers Beware

[gallandof]

one thing i think we can all agree on is that android has the best return policy as it stands now, BUT it could, and should be better, and 1 hour is the perfect time. there will still be pirates out there to rip off devs no matter. since most of the time people pirating games and apps dont know how to do it themselves they go to third party sources.

 

[SinfulDragon]

I'm ending this now. The discussion is about 15 minute return policy and nothing else. Stick to the topic.

He says after getting his point across that the other users reasoning is "weak". How about playing by the rules that you intend to enforce?


I for one was unaware of the 15 minute policy so thanks for the thread.

 

[ghmerrill]

The need for a return policy is in direct proportion to the number of crappy apps- anyone looking through the market has to notice at least a third, probably higher, of the apps are junk- one dip who kept publishing apps like "climbing hippy", that is just one example, but there are thousands. If google wants to cut us down to a 15 minute window, they should also incorporate a craigslist style flagging system, so users can get rid of the junk.

As far as the scammers go, I make it a point to flag any of their comments I see in the market that are there to draw people to the pirate software websites- for anyone who does not know how to do that, you just long press on the comment, and a box will pop up, select "mark as spam".

 

[johnlgalt]

I agree that 15 minutes seems pretty short, I would like to see it be in the 30 minutes to an hour timeframe for returns. But I also have heard some developers stating that they were going to start putting trials in the free section of the market. There is no perfect policy IMO, you can't please everybody. I believe that google is going this route to encourage developers to continue developing for Android especially in the area of games. I don't expect to see trials for games at all, they will be either paid or app supported.

I think trial apps by the devs are probably the best option - the 15 minute thing is simply for people trying to buy an app only to realize that they pressed the wrong app to buy....

He says after getting his point across that the other users reasoning is "weak". How about playing by the rules that you intend to enforce?


I for one was unaware of the 15 minute policy so thanks for the thread.

And that would be precisely why I did that - I was all set to continue the discussion on whether devs should be supported or not and realized that it was going off-topic an I had to bring it back. I fully claim responsibility - I started it so I stopped it.

The need for a return policy is in direct proportion to the number of crappy apps- anyone looking through the market has to notice at least a third, probably higher, of the apps are junk- one dip who kept publishing apps like "climbing hippy", that is just one example, but there are thousands. If google wants to cut us down to a 15 minute window, they should also incorporate a craigslist style flagging system, so users can get rid of the junk.

As far as the scammers go, I make it a point to flag any of their comments I see in the market that are there to draw people to the pirate software websites- for anyone who does not know how to do that, you just long press on the comment, and a box will pop up, select "mark as spam".

Agreed on both counts - still, the return policy at 15 minutes in conjunction with trials for paid apps would probably be the best solution. It offers above and beyond what you get in other stores, and satisfies devs that are getting charged back lots of income b/c of people buying apps under false pretenses.

 

[xjestersdeadx]

I'm only pointing out that many of us seem to be much more picky when it comes to spending a few dollars on an app vs the same or more on other things. I know some disagree with my observation & I respect your different views.

But I totally agree, as I've said all along, that 15 minutes is horrible. I can see this forces devs to have to create a free version and do more work. But if Google is trying to force ad supported apps, that makes sense for them. Not necessarily for devs or consumers.

Peace!

Yes, exactly. It's all your perspective. Some bottled water actually costs $10-$20 a gallon if sold at the pump like gasoline, but people don't realize their paying so much because their buying a little bottle that doesn't cost $10. Gas rises to $3.09, and people talk about how expensive it is...then go pay $10 a gallon for their bottle of water.

 

[xjestersdeadx]

That's your right as a developer. It's also our right as buyers to get discouraged when we pay out for an app that stops getting supported after a few weeks and is incompatible with newer versions of Android. Take bTunes for example.. 10,000+ downloads (it says 10,000-50,000, so for all we know it could be significantly higher) at $2 a pop. I'm not quite sure what happened to the dev but I was pretty disappointed when he just disappeared, never to update the app again. Either way, I'm sure the dev made off with quite a lot of cash. I'm not saying that this applies to your case. All I'm trying to say is, it's likely that people can get discouraged from supporting devs if they have bought apps in the past that are no longer supported. Either way, as I've already stated, it might make sense for 100 people to buy a lot of Android apps at a few dollars, for every person it does not make sense for. But still, it comes down to the individual person and that's my choice as a consumer While I don't deny you make good-quality apps, not every $2-$3 app is very good anyways. And about your donate version of your app, I am sorry so many people asked for a refund, I do not believe that is right. I am in no way condoning people paying for a donate version of an app, and then asking for a refund. I am simply emphasizing my right to abstain from purchasing apps that I do not think will be worthwhile for me, in my situation.

Totally your right, and the attitude of the dev should be that the customer (purchaser/downloader) comes first. That said, I think your statement of the dev "made of" with cash is not a fair representation of most honest devs. Especially the small ones. Sure, you have your 9,000 joke apps out there that might be worthless to some, but if someone spends $2 on an app, times 10,000, that's $20,000, right? With the 24 hour refund period, I've seen anywhere from 30% to 60% refund rate after talking with many devs. MOST have been in the 45% or more bracket.

So that's actually $9,000 off the top, or $11,000 left. Then you take Google's cut right off the top another 30%, so you have $6600 left.

Now how much did it cost to actually develop that app? Some devs do all the coding themselves, so maybe you can technically say it was "FREE". But most have some costs. Let's say they got an inexpensive freelancer to do it for $2000. That's $4600 in profit....not including paying that freelancer for every single update.

If it's been on the market for a year, then they've actually taken in $383 a month. For the effort involved, that might be nice to pay your Verizon bill, but it's NOT "making off" with cash.

Just pointing out that Devs should have the proper attitude in regards to customers, and that customers shouldn't have a misinterpretation that most Devs are just out to fool 10,000 people out of their .99 cent purchase.

(Not to say that their aren't some dishonest devs out there, but as stated, I think the minority are dishonest, just as its a minority of users who are dishonest and pirate the apps, and ruin things for small devs.)

 

[johnlgalt]

Again, please keep it on topic - you can start a separate thread for whether devs deserve to be paid or whatever - this is for the 15 minute return policy only.

 

[xjestersdeadx]

Again, please keep it on topic - you can start a separate thread for whether devs deserve to be paid or whatever - this is for the 15 minute return policy only.

I gotcha. But the discussion about how, why and how much money is involved is relevant to a conversation about why Google might have done this 15 minute policy. That might or might not allow some insight for customers who don't know that. Or is it preferred just to answer "yes I agree" or "no I don't agree" on this particular thread?

 

[johnlgalt]

Not so much that. I agree with all you said wholeheartedly, as evidenced by my own replies, but unless you're a Google dev you cannot really say *why* they made this decision without showing their words. Thus, until we can get a definite answer it's only speculation on our parts.

 

[BigRedGonzo]

I understand the user side, because I am one. I understand the devs' side because I used to do a similar type thing for a living. But...I do feel as though things have gone from one extreme to the other. Personally, when I download an app, its because I am looking for something to use and it is usually (nearly always) in response to a need. I typically try out the app as soon as it is finished installing, however, as someone stated above, sometimes it isn't possible to really give the app a go in 15 minutes. Also, quite often, even the good apps don't really meet your needs and you've gotta dig a bit deeper to find the one that really does do what you need. Someone stated above that the iPhone store doesn't offer any type of refund system, well, I didn't buy an iPhone so that really doesn't even come into play. There must be some sort of happy medium in between that can make the Android Market experience good for everyone. One thought that I had was possibly a native, unremovable app that monitors installs and if you don't drop the dough for a downloaded app in the allotted time, it removes it from your phone. This type of thing would avoid credit card fees and make every app a trial version until paid for. Anyway, I don't think that 15 minutes is enough time to evaluate the usefulness of an app, but the 24 hour time frame is a bit much.

 

[mobrienjr]

after reading through all of this "junk" I must say this. iPhone doesnt have refund policy, and most of their apps are atleast 99 cents.

The Truth about Mobile Application Stores

That shows that only 43% of Android apps are paid apps, while 75% of all other mobile OS's are paid apps.

I think that is excellent that over 50% of the apps on the market are free compared to 25% on the iPhone, BB, WM, Palm,

When it comes to games I always try to get the "Lite" version first to see if I would like it. I will even pay for an app that offers the same stuff free just to support the dev. It may just be a buck or 2, but hey they enjoy it and I enjoy the apps that they make.

Now I will say some apps I dont think are worth the money. I loved PowerAmp, but I didnt think it was worth the $6 that they wanted for it.

 

[corbinator]

I have bought one app from the marketplace and it was a great app that I didn't mind spending a few bucks for, but the dev ended up stopping support for it. (the app is bTunes btw). That experience alone is enough to discourage me to buy anymore apps, ....

Man is he going to feel bad if he is basing his experiance of paid apps off one app that didn't get updated every week and we all come to find out that the reason it didn't get updated is because the Dev has been in a horrible accident and lost use of his hands!!! "Darn it I don't care if you don't have hands to type!!!!! Code with your TOES so I can get my 2 bucks worth!!!!"

Sorry John I couldn't resist!! Yes 15 min is a little short, hour maybe two (as I don't always download an app and jump on it like a coked up spidermonkey after a 6 pack of Jolt cola), but the complaining about not supporting a dev who no longer supports YOU AND YOUR $2 APP is
asinine. He may have, like some dev's, instead of running continual daily updates, made a new app. Hence Dev websites and CHANGELOGS.