Replaced hard drive; OS CDs won't boot

[EdNerd]

I just replaced the hard drive in my "new-to-me" Dell Optiplex 260. (Hey - if it works and runs, it's better than what I have now: nuttin'!!) Unfortunately, it seems that none of my OS CDs (98SE, 2000, XP) will boot up. I just get the message on screen that it can't find the primary or secondary drives.

I searched Google for how to create something that will work, but everything says "download these files and burn the ISO". Well, if I could download something, I'd have a working computer, yah?? (Unless I can download what I need onto my Fascinate and then somehow burn the ISO from there .... )

Is there any hope for this? Even some files to make a bootable 3.5?? (Yes, it does have a floppy drive.)

Ed

 

[matther22xdroid]

I just replaced the hard drive in my "new-to-me" Dell Optiplex 260. (Hey - if it works and runs, it's better than what I have now: nuttin'!!) Unfortunately, it seems that none of my OS CDs (98SE, 2000, XP) will boot up. I just get the message on screen that it can't find the primary or secondary drives.

I searched Google for how to create something that will work, but everything says "download these files and burn the ISO". Well, if I could download something, I'd have a working computer, yah?? (Unless I can download what I need onto my Fascinate and then somehow burn the ISO from there .... )

Is there any hope for this? Even some files to make a bootable 3.5?? (Yes, it does have a floppy drive.)

Ed

Did you go into boot order set to boot optical drive first?


You could burn an ubuntu iso on a friends computer and use that. You may as well throw out the 98SE and 2000 OS cd's anyways. They also may not be bootable OS discs.

 

[EdNerd]

Boot order is:
-- IDE CD-ROM
-- Floppy
-- Hard drive

Hard drive is primary
CD is secondary

I have no clue what an Ubuntu ISO is. If I can download that, I can download a Windows ISO, can't I? What's the difference?

 

[nancy30]

yes you can use any linux versions like ubuntu, suse etc and then install windows later when you find a disc

 

[mikedt]

I just replaced the hard drive in my "new-to-me" Dell Optiplex 260. (Hey - if it works and runs, it's better than what I have now: nuttin'!!) Unfortunately, it seems that none of my OS CDs (98SE, 2000, XP) will boot up. I just get the message on screen that it can't find the primary or secondary drives.

Ed, are your OS CDs, original Microsoft Windows install CDs, or CDR copies of original Windows install CDs, or perhaps something that got downloaded from The Pirate Bay, and burned onto CDRs? Do they actually work and are bootable? - can you confirm that they work in another PC?

 

[mikedt]

Boot order is:
-- IDE CD-ROM
-- Floppy
-- Hard drive

Hard drive is primary
CD is secondary

I have no clue what an Ubuntu ISO is.

Go here.
Desktop | Ubuntu
...and follow the instructions here,...
Install Ubuntu Desktop | Ubuntu
It's quite easy.

If I can download that, I can download a Windows ISO, can't I?

You can, but it's completely illegal, and there's a very high risk of malware and viruses. We can't discuss illegal activities on AF, because it's against the forum rules and is illegal to do so.

You're most likely going to need Windows XP for this old Pentium 4 Dell Optiplex. Microsoft no longer sells XP, and they certainly don't sell Win2000 any more. You might find original Windows install CDs on Ebay however.

What's the difference?

Ubuntu is a free open-source OS.
Ubuntu for you | Ubuntu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_Open_Source_Software
Windows is a commercial proprietary OS.

 

[EdNerd]

If I can download that, I can download a Windows ISO, can't I?

You can, but it's completely illegal, and there's a very high risk of malware and viruses. We can't discuss illegal activities on AF, because it's against the forum rules and is illegal to do so.

I was thinking more along the lines of the Ultimate Boot CD and its variations that can be found on CNet.com and elsewhere.

You're most likely going to need Windows XP for this old Pentium 4 Dell Optiplex.

Yah - that's what I was hoping to install. I was running XP Pro SP3.

Ed, are your OS CDs, original Microsoft Windows install CDs, or CDR copies of original Windows install CDs,

Both, collected over the years: burned copies of CDs obtained from *somewhere*, and original install/restore CDs that came with machines long since forgotten.

About Ubuntu:
I'm assuming that because it's not Windonws, I can install Ubuntu and get a machine running, but then I need to install Windows over that, yes? Otherwise none of my programs (like MS Office 2007) will run, correct?

Ed

 

[matther22xdroid]

I was thinking more along the lines of the Ultimate Boot CD and its variations that can be found on CNet.com and elsewhere.


Yah - that's what I was hoping to install. I was running XP Pro SP3.


Both, collected over the years: burned copies of CDs obtained from *somewhere*, and original install/restore CDs that came with machines long since forgotten.

About Ubuntu:
I'm assuming that because it's not Windonws, I can install Ubuntu and get a machine running, but then I need to install Windows over that, yes? Otherwise none of my programs (like MS Office 2007) will run, correct?

Ed

Curious are you sure your optical drive is working?

 

[EdNerd]

Curious are you sure your optical drive is working?

Y'know -- good question!! Don't exactly know how to check that with nothing working right now. I might be able to scrounge another one and slave it in. Wouldn't *that* be a head-banger!?! :banghead:

Ed

 

[EdNerd]

Don't know if this helps:
I hit F12 and booted to IDE Drive Diagnostics.
Primary IDE
Drive 0: Serial number - Fail. Return code: 7
Drive 1: No device
Secondary IDE
Drive 0: Samsung CD-ROM SN - Diagnostics not supported
Drive 1: No device

Havn't tried swapping the CD drve yet.
Ed

 

[mikedt]

The BIOS is seeing the Samsung CD drive. But doesn't necessarily mean it's working though, and can read and boot CDs though. I'd change it anyway just to be sure. New CD/DVD drives are cheap.

Don't know what the "code: 7" fail is on the HDD though. Is that because it can't read the serial number, or that the HDD might be faulty?

 

[matther22xdroid]

"and original install/restore CDs that came with machines long since forgotten."

Those discs will only work on the systems they came with if they are OEM discs.

Your best bet is to go with ubuntu, you can install and run the Open Office suite which is 100% MS Office compatible. It will be a learning experience for you but you will get the hang of it and google search will become your new best friend.

Even if the hdd was bad you should still be able to boot a >>bootable<< disc if the optical drive is still good. I would swap out the optical for sure and go from there.

 

[Rolo42]

I would use UBCD or Hiren's Boot CD diagnostics on the drive.

Additionally, are you certain your cables are good?

Are jumpers set to Single/Master on both devices?

If your xp cd won't boot but the drive is good, you can download the floppy creation utility from Microsoft.

 

[EdNerd]

Okay - I got the use of an Optiplex 620 and came up with these:
-- swapped the CD drives; both are good
-- none of my "bootable" CDs boot up either machine
-- installed the 620 HD in the 260 (long shot, I know); same errors, no boot

I was going to install the floppy drive from the 260 into the 620 and download the files to make a boot floppy -- but the 620 motherboard doesn't have the jack for the floppy! Don't know who else has a floppy any more ... (Note: 620 has no internet connection.)

Looks like I might have to bribe someone to make me an Ubuntu CD. That would be bootable, yes? (Meaning, I turn on power, open CD drive and insert, and machine boots from the CD and loads Ubuntu on the HD, yes?)

Ed

PS: OpenOffice wouldn't be such a big deal if it would run VBA. But until OO interfaces with VB6 and macros, I'm sticking with MSO.

 

[matther22xdroid]

Okay - I got the use of an Optiplex 620 and came up with these:
-- swapped the CD drives; both are good
-- none of my "bootable" CDs boot up either machine
-- installed the 620 HD in the 260 (long shot, I know); same errors, no boot

I was going to install the floppy drive from the 260 into the 620 and download the files to make a boot floppy -- but the 620 motherboard doesn't have the jack for the floppy! Don't know who else has a floppy any more ... (Note: 620 has no internet connection.)

Looks like I might have to bribe someone to make me an Ubuntu CD. That would be bootable, yes? (Meaning, I turn on power, open CD drive and insert, and machine boots from the CD and loads Ubuntu on the HD, yes?)

Ed

PS: OpenOffice wouldn't be such a big deal if it would run VBA. But until OO interfaces with VB6 and macros, I'm sticking with MSO.

It seems like you have something wrong here. When you put in a bootable Disc either cd or dvd and you change the boot order to the optical drive it should bring a prompt up saying "Press any key to start from Disc". But as long as you did change the boot order in both machines and they didnt work either time then it would be the discs i guess. Try the ubuntu 12.04 and see if you can boot from that.

 

[argedion]

did you make sure that the jumper was set for master disk and not for slave? also make sure its not cable select. check the cable as well maybe replace it with a new one or try an old one that is known to work. also make sure the connections are secure and are plugged in the correct way.

btw what size hard drive are you putting in? is it supported by the bios of that computer? If the hard drive is to big for the bios then they will not read the drive, or they read it as an unsupported device.

 

[9to5cynic]

I'd recommend trying a linux distro like recommended ... ubutnu to verify that the cd rom drive is working.


What programs do you *need* this to run?

Instead of Office 2007 you could try OpenOffice/LibreOffice. Free alternatives that work on linux.

Hope this helps!

 

[Rolo42]

-- swapped the CD drives; both are good

Did you swap the cables as well?

-- none of my "bootable" CDs boot up either machine

Do the drives spin and get accessed during boot?

-- installed the 620 HD in the 260 (long shot, I know); same errors, no boot

It can't find the primary or secondary drives still? If so, the options are narrowed:
- Bad hard disk controller
- Bad cables
- Bad jumper/jumper settings
- Bad power to HDD/ODD
- Incorrect BIOS settings (though nothing comes to mind atm; can you take pictures?)

 

[EdNerd]

Did you swap the cables as well?

No - didn' think of that.

Do the drives spin and get accessed during boot?

Yes, they did.

It can't find the primary or secondary drives still? If so, the options are narrowed:
- Bad hard disk controller
- Bad cables
- Bad jumper/jumper settings
- Bad power to HDD/ODD
- Incorrect BIOS settings (though nothing comes to mind atm; can you take pictures?)

Will try to snap pics of the screen. Possible that neither HDD or ODD were set to MASTER; will check and move if needed. New HDD is only 80G; shouldn't be too big for tis machine, eh? (Actually, it was given to me with a 20G installed, and that wasn't recognized either.)

No guarentees that the CDs I have are actually "bootable" (to me, that means when they're inserted the machine automatically boots from there), but I never get a message asking to boot off the disc.

9to5cynic asked what I *need* this to run. My primary focus is improving my skills with Word, Excel, Access, and VBA macros, since that's what I have at work. I also do some personal projects with VB6 (Classic, not NET). And a few other things like Photoshop.

Thanks to everyone for all the help. My work schedule is crazy this week, and I may not be able to post much before the weekend - but I'll try to get some screen pics of anything I can get from the BIOS and POST tomorrow. Any suggestions for what I should look for? Any command lines to try that might return meaningful results?

Ed

 

[Steven58]

Guys please don't mention warez sites..it violates site policy. tia. Deleted a post, fyi. TY! :ciao:

 

[argedion]

How is this going? has the problem been solved or are you still working on it?

 

[EdNerd]

Still working it ... crazy schedule.
Have not been able to get a boot disc yet - maybe tonight.
Hope to have a bootable floppy.

(Then I gotta find the command line to "RUN CD" and hope one of my CDs will load Windows!)

Thanks for checking on me.
Ed

 

[EdNerd]

Okay -- here's my progress so far. I borrowed another (newer) Dell Optiplex and was able to verify some things.
-- CD drive in my machine doesn't read anything
-- New HDD (refurb 80G Seagate) is set to master
-- I have an original MS Win98SE CD; verfied that it is readable
-- I created a bootable floppy that does boot my machine
-- Put the other CD drive in my computer
-- Powered up my computer with floppy inserted
-- Get the following messages:
"Invalid configuration information - please run SETUP program"
"Performng automatic IDE configuration"
"Primary Master: IDE Disk Drive"
"Secondary Master: CD-ROM reader"
"Time-of-day not set - please run SETUP program"
"Alert! System battery voltage is low."
-- Entered BIOS setup; set date and time
(Note1: I just installed a new CMOS 2032 battery, so settings were cleared)
(Note2: I kept getting these same messages every time I rebooted. Date and time do not stay set if I unplug power cord.)
-- Boot sequence is floppy-CD-HDD
-- Both HDD and CD are recognized by BIOS (CD is actually a CD/DVD R/W, but is only a CD in this machine)
-- Inserted CD in drive; dir showed files
-- Rebooted; CD is not bootable in this machine
-- HDD not assigned a drive letter
-- Fdisk, format could not find hard drive
-- SETUP on CD could not find hard drive
-- Manually changing drives in cmd prompt (A:> C through every letter failed to find HDD (A and B both were the floppy, and the CD was R)

At this point, I think I'm done. By the time I buy a new CD drive and pay a Geek to make this work, I can save my money and hit a Black Friday sale.

The only other thing I can think of is to get a dual drive cable for the other Optiplex (it's only got a connection for one drive), slave in my blank HDD and try to load something on it.

Unless somebody's got a magic bullet??
Ed

 

[argedion]

sounds like the bios are taking a dump. I have had this happen to me before change the battery yet no settings will stick. CMOS is going out. you can try to bypass this if you use the one good computer to install linux on the hard drive and then stick it back into the old computer and see if it works. if not then well happy black friday shopping

 

[Rolo42]

"Invalid configuration information - please run SETUP program"

Agreed, your CMOS settings aren't being retained. Possibilities
- The new battery is bad
- The battery retainer is bad (hard to imagine though)
- The battery is installed improperly (also hard to imagine)
- The battery jumper(s) are incorrect
-- Ensure it isn't set to use an external battery (not all motherboards have this)
-- Ensure CMOS_CLR jumper is set correctly

-- New HDD (refurb 80G Seagate) is set to master

Has this drive been tested in another machine (you don't need a cable, just install it by itself and use UBCD/Parted/SeaTools boot CD and run diagnostics on it, create a primary partition and format it FAT32)?

Additionally, what make/model is it and are there other jumpers on it?

-- Both HDD and CD are recognized by BIOS (CD is actually a CD/DVD R/W, but is only a CD in this machine)

What interface speeds are these using? If the HDD is ATA-66/100/133, ensure you are using an 80-conductor PATA cable or force the HDD to ATA-33 speeds (should be a jumper).

At this point, I think I'm done. By the time I buy a new CD drive and pay a Geek to make this work, I can save my money and hit a Black Friday sale.

Oh, it isn't about a working computer anymore!