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Romney vs. Obama

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ElasticNinja said:
The idea that corporations wouldnt pay tax on their *profits* or capital gains is... well completely ridiculous.
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Glad you have an open mind ;)
ElasticNinja said:
If you dont tax business, how on earth can you argue for the taxation of people's income? Both business and individuals are essential to the economy, but you can have some sort of society without business, but not without workers. Businesses benefit hugely from there being a government, I've addressed this before.
Now, I'm not comfortable with the idea that businesses should be taxed or charged for employment, with regards to social security contributions or health costs.
Anyway, I dont think corporation tax is too high in most parts of the western world, its too low in many states. I think that government should focus on making their states/regions better to business in - infrastructure, law-wise and crime prevention, simplify regulations, better education, healthcare, all that.
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Care to explain how you can tax a business? I explained why it doesn't work and is actually wasteful.
 
ylexot said:
One of the big things I really dislike about regulation is that much of it is put in place by people who are not elected representatives. Congress has delegated their authority (and their actual job) to people with little to no accountability. I'm actually curious if anyone has fought a regulation on the grounds that only Congress has the authority to enact laws, so regulations enacted by administrators of various agencies are not enforceable.
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In theory, Congress delegates to those who actually have experience. If they didn't, you can be sure that they'd be accused of trying to regulate industries they know nothing at all about. Not that this has ever stopped them.

ElasticNinja said:
The idea that corporations wouldnt pay tax on their *profits* or capital gains is... well completely ridiculous. If you dont tax business, how on earth can you argue for the taxation of people's income? Both business and individuals are essential to the economy, but you can have some sort of society without business, but not without workers. Businesses benefit hugely from there being a government, I've addressed this before.
Now, I'm not comfortable with the idea that businesses should be taxed or charged for employment, with regards to social security contributions or health costs.
Anyway, I dont think corporation tax is too high in most parts of the western world, its too low in many states. I think that government should focus on making their states/regions better to business in - infrastructure, law-wise and crime prevention, simplify regulations, better education, healthcare, all that.
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I have no problems with taxing businesses, but people need to recognize that when you tax businesses you are indirectly taxing individuals.
 
A.Nonymous said:
In theory, Congress delegates to those who actually have experience. If they didn't, you can be sure that they'd be accused of trying to regulate industries they know nothing at all about. Not that this has ever stopped them.
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We hire Congress to gather the information from the people who have experience and then represent us in making the laws. If Congress is unable to do that, they should be fired.
 
ylexot said:
We hire Congress to gather the information from the people who have experience and then represent us in making the laws. If Congress is unable to do that, they should be fired.
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I will add that to my list of reason why Congress should be fired.
 
OutofDate1980 said:
Start with concentration of wealth. Capital is a barrier to entry.
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Not sure what you're saying here. Barrier to opening a business? Not really. HP was started with ~$9,000 in todays money. Microsoft started with nothing. Gates and Allen went and persuaded some poor schmucks that if they gave them some money they could give them an operating system. Michael Dell claims he started his company with what would ammount to $2k today. I've got friends who run their own businesses they started with next to nothing. I've got a good friend who got laid off at the plant he was working at. He went out and started a business where he's basically a gofer. He'll mow your lawn, pick up your dry cleaning, wash your car, clean your gutters, etc.... Cost him the price of some business cards and fliers that he probably printed for next to nothing off his computer.
 
ylexot said:
Glad you have an open mind ;)
Care to explain how you can tax a business? I explained why it doesn't work and is actually wasteful.
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Because your argument is based on the concept that businesses wont hoard resources. We all know that trickle down is a failed concept.

And thanks for the compliment on the open mind :p I'm sure some day we will live in a more advanced society where these things wont need to be taxed (Although I'm not sure how that would work, but meh).
 
ylexot said:
Yet people start businesses from nothing and thrive all the time. Try again.
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It is a myth. You need money to start a business, and I don't consider being a gofer a business. You need money to make money. It is a simple truth known to every business student.
 
Spike15 said:
It is a myth. You need money to start a business, and I don't consider being a gofer a business. You need money to make money. It is a simple truth known to every business student.
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You need very little money to start a business. Personally, I'd call a guy who can make his house payment and feed his wife and kids by being a gofer a business. Why is that not a business? He does it for a living and it pays his bills.
 
Spike15 said:
It is a myth. You need money to start a business, and I don't consider being a gofer a business. You need money to make money. It is a simple truth known to every business student.
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How much money do you need? Ever heard of a venture capitalist?
 
ylexot said:
Yet people start businesses from nothing and thrive all the time. Try again.
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That's a "faith based" belief. If true, why the high unemployment rate ? All these unemployed would just start their own business.

ylexot said:
And BTW, that has nothing to do with why taxing businesses does not work.
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You're missing pricing power for one. One outcome is that if a business is maximizing profit, charging the maximum price the market will bear, a tax will result in lower profits or an increase in investment for better efficiency to retain profit margins.
 
ylexot said:
How much money do you need? Ever heard of a venture capitalist?
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Like a lot. To lease a building, to hire employees, to meet all federal and state regulations, to hire a law firm, to buy an insurance, and I am not even talking about research and development expenses.
 
A.Nonymous said:
You need very little money to start a business. Personally, I'd call a guy who can make his house payment and feed his wife and kids by being a gofer a business. Why is that not a business? He does it for a living and it pays his bills.
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This guy is a contractor doing unskilled tasks to feed his family. If you want to be a loser for life without prospects, that's the way to go.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Not sure what you're saying here. Barrier to opening a business? Not really. HP was started with ~$9,000 in todays money. Microsoft started with nothing. Gates and Allen went and persuaded some poor schmucks that if they gave them some money they could give them an operating system. Michael Dell claims he started his company with what would ammount to $2k today. I've got friends who run their own businesses they started with next to nothing. I've got a good friend who got laid off at the plant he was working at. He went out and started a business where he's basically a gofer. He'll mow your lawn, pick up your dry cleaning, wash your car, clean your gutters, etc.... Cost him the price of some business cards and fliers that he probably printed for next to nothing off his computer.
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The concentration of wealth was a lot lower for the examples you cited.

The economy doesn't exist in isolation. Laws are written by wealthy parties to protect their interest. One of those interests is to hinder competition.

Good luck to your gofer friend, the new healthcare plan will benefit him.
 
Spike15 said:
This guy is a contractor doing unskilled tasks to feed his family. If you want to be a loser for life without prospects, that's the way to go.
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Not sure why you say that. I know people who have started janitorial businesses the same way. They printed out cards/fliers and went around and started cleaning houses. As they got more accounts, they hired people out to do one or two accounts and grew until now they are no longer scrubbing toilets but have 10-12 people working under them who do.
 
Spike15 said:
Like a lot. To lease a building, to hire employees, to meet all federal and state regulations, to hire a law firm, to buy an insurance, and I am not even talking about research and development expenses.
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You don't need to do all those things to start a business. In fact you don't have to do any of those things.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Not sure why you say that. I know people who have started janitorial businesses the same way. They printed out cards/fliers and went around and started cleaning houses. As they got more accounts, they hired people out to do one or two accounts and grew until now they are no longer scrubbing toilets but have 10-12 people working under them who do.
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And I still will make more money than any of the toilet-scrubbing business owners without even owning a business. Companies like that are worthless.
And the only reason your friends are profitable is probably because they hired illegal immigrants and pay them crap with no benefits.
 
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