• After 15+ years, we've made a big change: Android Forums is now Early Bird Club. Learn more here.

Shooting in Aurora, CO

Not sure if this is the correct post to ask in....

Why the hell was there a 6 year old and a 3 month old in the cinema during a midnight viewing?

Maybe is just me?

It is a horrible crime, and I have complete sympathy for all involved, but the girl killed should never have been there! (if you can't get baby sitter, don't go!)
Sorry, just a different view on the scenario!
 
Speed Daemon said:
I'm a strong advocate of free speech, but sometimes I wonder if our collective attraction to dark thoughts is something that needs to be examined and sussed out in a serious manner. Art is one thing. Monetizing harmful things is completely different.

I'm old enough to remember when the first martial arts and revenge films became mainstream. Bruce Lee was already dead before people in the US could walk into a movie theater and see people beating the crap out of each other. After Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry character, Charles Bronson's "Death Wish" series and other films that glorified things that used to be unthinkable hit the "big screen in your neighborhood" it seems like things changed. When I was a kid there was horseplay, but the TV and movie stares that we emulated were the kind that never killed people.

As someone who has lived before and after the rise of really violent stuff on film and TV, and has seen video games go from cute little abstract things to realistic first person shooters, I wonder if those of us who are now the responsible adults that are supposed to lead society need to say "No! This is not acceptable! Not even for pretend."

We live in a nation that's been at war, is still at war, and has real people spilling real blood right now. It seems so obscene that someone can dress up like a SWAT team member, throw grenades and fire weapons, and the first thing that people think is that it must be a publicity stunt.

I think it's time to reign in some parts of our society.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think you've hit the nail on the head on the root problem. We've gotten to a place where our society is obsessed with darkness. I saw many pundits complaining about the violence shown in the came demos at EE (I think that was the trade show). Not because they are opposed to violent video games, but because every trailer featured half a dozen head shots. Even they thought it was obsessive.

I've seen many reviews on line about books/magazines/video games/etc.... where there are many complaints that the content is not dark enough. I play Star Wars The Old Republic and players on there frequently complain that, while playing good guys (Jedi and the like) that they are penalized for making dark side choices. What they really want is to be a Jedi, kill people without mercy and be applauded for it.

Our society loves to stare into the abyss. The problem is you stare into the abyss long enough and it stares back at you. A lot of people don't have a problem because they know not to stare long enough, but there is always a segment of society that will stare longer than they should and will be affected in a deeply negative way by what they see.
 
Zoandroid said:
I don't think any kind of gun control laws or other attempts at preventive measures would ever be effective against this kind of lunacy. But I do believe there is one thing that might be effective. The guy walked up to the authorities and turned himself in. He admitted to doing the whole act. Why? Because he knows how our legal system will work to make any possibility of having to be held responsible for his acts into a decades long media circus. There is a far less expensive solution. He should have already been executed. Persons like that don't deserve anything more. If those considering such actions could know beyond a doubt, through seeing it happen, that to do so is an instant death sentence when they are apprehended, they might think twice about doing it. I'm betting he just wanted "his 15 minutes", as the saying goes. The media has already given him worldwide recognition by instantly plastering his smug photo everywhere. That should not have happened. He should be quietly done away with as a question mark, not made famous by our legal system. His name and photo should never be publicly released. Eradicate him quietly, as one would have a cancer removed.
Click to expand...

Certain economic crimes are worse than this kind of stuff, so should those who commit them be bagged up and shot in the head suddenly too?

See this is what happened to Stalin's USSR.
Rule of law and justice, it's important, ask the C.A.R or Russia.
 
ElasticNinja said:
I think smart people seem to be more prone to mental illness...
Click to expand...
I think that may be a distortion of brilliant ideas, and thus those who thought them, tend to have strong negative reactions from "normal" people. This has been the case with many major advances in how we see our universe.

This guy OTOH is someone who we really don't know much more than he has postgraduate letters and maimed or killed a lot of people. Whether or not he is smart seems beside (or perhaps beyond) the point right now.
 
sntaylor said:
Not sure if this is the correct post to ask in....

Why the hell was there a 6 year old and a 3 month old in the cinema during a midnight viewing?
Click to expand...
This is the perfect place to ask that question.

WTF was in the minds of those parents? Putting a movie ahead of their own children? Parents are supposed to protect their small children from all risks, large and small. This time they rolled the dice and lost real bad, but even if there was no shooter what about the high SPL in the theater? Carrying a baby around in a crowd of amped-up late night revelers? No.
 
Small kids in a violent movie is bad.. Then add in loud.. Then way late at night.. And it was a very bad idea.

These people are always having to take the baby in and out for crying.. PITA
 
Speed Daemon said:
This is the perfect place to ask that question.

WTF was in the minds of those parents? Putting a movie ahead of their own children? Parents are supposed to protect their small children from all risks, large and small. This time they rolled the dice and lost real bad, but even if there was no shooter what about the high SPL in the theater? Carrying a baby around in a crowd of amped-up late night revelers? No.
Click to expand...


I don't see how they put a movie ahead of their children. I take my babies (3) out to arcades but that doesn't mean im putting them in danger. If something were to happen at the arcade my parenting shouldn't come into question.

Wtf, goes through my mind? I want to go out and have fun.... and not leave the family out of it. Yes, the little ones may need some extra attention but as long as we don't let them annoy others, i don't see the harm, whether its 12 am or 3 pm.

When i went to see Spiderman, there were many kids there. MANY kids. I thought "crap, the movie is ruined ".


Not so. The kids were fine. Pleasant experience.

The parents should not be criticized here, its the guy who opened fire on everyone.
 
kids need their sleep.. 1-5 yrs olds.. need to be in bed by 9pm to get a full nights rest.

bring a small infant to a mid-night showing. .where they have NO idea what the movie is about.. and scary images that they have no way to defend against. cant sleep and rest because of loud actions and sudden bangs.

that is properly taking care of children?
I will have to respectfully agree to DISAGREE!
 
Zoandroid said:
I never said to 'do away' with the legal system. Now 'freedom of the press', that's a whole 'nother ball of wax, and I won't waste time arguing that one, because neither of us can win. I have no respect for the media. Period.

Now, that said, had I been witnessed by untold numbers of people, and then walked up to the swat team with a smug smile and said "yea, I did this", you would be right in doing so. But apparently you did not READ what I wrote. You just knee-jerk reacted.

When the case of whether someone is guilty or not is clearly defined by the fact that he SAYS he DID it, dragging the issue through the legal system is unnecessary. But.........that is precisely what is about to unfold. Untold thousands of tax dollars will be spent defending these kinds of crimes when it is so obvious to all involved who did what and when. This is not a "we know you did this" situation. This is HIM saying "I DID IT" and then smugly smiling for the camera. Is there a single soul on this planet who thinks for even a second he did NOT do it??? WHY he did it doesn't matter to the dead.

Kudos to president Obama for respecting the tragic loss of the community, and not mentioning the criminal's name on national TV. We need more of that kind of thinking. But I'd bet tomorrow's arraignment, which I understand will be televised (bad choice) will just fuel the media circus that is to follow. All this is shameful and a waste of our legal system when they could be doing things to better this country instead of tying up our courts with such filibustering. Cut to the chase. He is obviously guilty. No question about it.
Click to expand...

Actually, you said he should have been already executed. This clearly says "do away with the legal system." Stop the spinning; I read what you wrote.

I will agree with your view of the media. Not like it once was.
 
dan330 said:
i am just amazed of how intelligent the shooter is. he was quiet and not involved in any online social sites.. he was a smart ghost in society.

what set him off??? why why why??
Click to expand...

I doubt we will ever know what set him off.

Sadly, my family and my closest friends have had to deal with senseless violence over many many years. Google Lance and Kelback. Very famous case where two Expletive deletes made national news many moons ago. Their murder spree took the lives of six people including a childhood friend's brother.

Then my best friend lost family in the infamous case referred to as The Ogden Hi-Fi Shop Murders. Imagine being forced to drink Drano as the murderers jam pencils into your brain.

I feel for the victims at the movie, but sadly, we will never be free of these terrible things. I first experienced it it 1966.
 
dan330 said:
kids need their sleep.. 1-5 yrs olds.. need to be in bed by 9pm to get a full nights rest.

bring a small infant to a mid-night showing. .where they have NO idea what the movie is about.. and scary images that they have no way to defend against. cant sleep and rest because of loud actions and sudden bangs.

that is properly taking care of children?
I will have to respectfully agree to DISAGREE!
Click to expand...


Whos to say they're not getting sleep at other times? If they're 1-5 they don't have to be up early for school.

Daddy's bedtime is 1 am. Same goes for kids. Am i now a bad father? If yes, then at least i can rest easy that my oldest can at least say please and thank you without being told to (most of the time... children ........)

Ive also been to movies where babies have slept through. If a baby is making a fuss and the parent takes care of it then its no harm done to the child. 4th of July certainly didn't mess up my 1 year olds.


A movie isn't properly taking care of children. Many things aren't. It certainly shouldn't be considered otherwise though. I grew up watching scary movies and i haven't shot up any theaters recently.

But that's how it is, if someone's way of doing something differs from your own, there will be disagreements.
 
Speed Daemon said:
I'm a strong advocate of free speech, but sometimes I wonder if our collective attraction to dark thoughts is something that needs to be examined and sussed out in a serious manner. Art is one thing. Monetizing harmful things is completely different.

I'm old enough to remember when the first martial arts and revenge films became mainstream. Bruce Lee was already dead before people in the US could walk into a movie theater and see people beating the crap out of each other. After Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry character, Charles Bronson's "Death Wish" series and other films that glorified things that used to be unthinkable hit the "big screen in your neighborhood" it seems like things changed. When I was a kid there was horseplay, but the TV and movie stares that we emulated were the kind that never killed people.

As someone who has lived before and after the rise of really violent stuff on film and TV, and has seen video games go from cute little abstract things to realistic first person shooters, I wonder if those of us who are now the responsible adults that are supposed to lead society need to say "No! This is not acceptable! Not even for pretend."

We live in a nation that's been at war, is still at war, and has real people spilling real blood right now. It seems so obscene that someone can dress up like a SWAT team member, throw grenades and fire weapons, and the first thing that people think is that it must be a publicity stunt.

I think it's time to reign in some parts of our society.
Click to expand...

Hard to say how much our popular media influences people. One can assume or make a connection, but there really is no proof.

Growing up, I had my share of 22 cal guns, BB and pellet guns and those gun and holster kits created so I could fight imaginary Indians. Or that was the implication. I never shot anyone and never thought of shooting someone.

Even something as innocuous as reality TV has some demonstrable effect. How many people fall in love with the Kardashians and therefore, try to be more like them? the shows about losing weight has likely made lots of large people feel bad about themselves. But fashion and weight are not the same as abject violence.

As for Bruce Lee, that is nothing new. I recall the stories and since I was a big BL fan, I saw those fools exiting the theater trying to be Mr. Lee.
 
When is the Best Time to Sleep?

First paragraph states that sleep between 9 pm and 12 pm is when it is best for adults to sleep,

With children it is even more important to be sleeping well before 12 pm, and those as young as 6 should be sleeping well before 10 pm, it is the optimum time for growing, this it's to do with the effect the sun etc has on or bodies.

That was just one quick search I did, I'm sure I could find many more if regards to children specifically!

I do believe it is a cultural thing involved here as well, in Britain, it would be very unlikely to hear of anything like this (taking away the shooting part!)

I'm not saying people should not go to cinema with kids etc, hell over here we have specific screenings for parents with their babies!
 
Bob Maxey said:
Hard to say how much our popular media influences people. One can assume or make a connection, but there really is no proof.

Growing up, I had my share of 22 cal guns, BB and pellet guns and those gun and holster kits created so I could fight imaginary Indians. Or that was the implication. I never shot anyone and never thought of shooting someone.
Click to expand...

Sometimes i wonder if it weren't for so much coverage of suicides and talk of them if the thought would still cross the minds of those who have committed suicide. If kid being bullied had never heard of suicide, would he still have made that choice?



As for gun play, i hear too many parents nowadays saying its wrong and it will desensitize kids to real violence. I think if a kid or adult is COMPLETELY desensitized, there's more to it than playing with guns. Ive been playing violent video games since i can remember and not once have i actually wanted to cause physical harm to anyone...... minus punching a kid in elementary lol.

Its pointless, imo, to spend so much time fearing that every little thing will turn my baby into James Holmes. It didn't to me or any of my childhood friends.

The cause may never be known so for now, just let them have fun with their light sabers and dead bad guys.
 
sntaylor said:
When is the Best Time to Sleep?

First paragraph states that sleep between 9 pm and 12 pm is when it is best for adults to sleep,

With children it is even more important to be sleeping well before 12 pm, and those as young as 6 should be sleeping well before 10 pm, it is the optimum time for growing, this it's to do with the effect the sun etc has on or bodies.

That was just one quick search I did, I'm sure I could find many more if regards to children specifically!

I do believe it is a cultural thing involved here as well, in Britain, it would be very unlikely to hear of anything like this (taking away the shooting part!)

I'm not saying people should not go to cinema with kids etc, hell over here we have specific screenings for parents with their babies!
Click to expand...


I can see your point here. Having not gone by this schedule though, its easy for me to dismiss it. My main point was that just because its not PERFECT parenting doesn't mean its bad parenting. My wife does many things "by the book" with our kids. We do others not so much by the book. Im willing to bet they'll turn out way better than i did even without perfect parenting. It just seems to me that these people will get more criticism than they should get.... from people with ill behaved brats even, just because of a late night out with the family. It really isn't their fault is what im saying. At all. Not one bit.



Im curious, how is a screening made specifically for parents with babies? I haven't heard of this before.
 
martingroso said:
I don't get this, there has to be something wrong, these kinds of episodes are getting each time more common here in the US, there has to be something done regarding this. I don't know what the requirements are to buy a gun, but as far as I know, it's not too hard to get one.

In my opinion, every person that wants to buy a gun should get a deep psychological examination, and once they posses a gun/weapon, they should get an examination in a certain period of time (say, 12 months, or 24 months) to be able to legally posses the gun.
Click to expand...
I get where you're coming from, but unfortunately that isn't in harmony with our Constitutional rule of presumed innocence. Kangaroo courts are no more acceptable than mass murderers IMHO.

If we as a nation want to do a major overhaul of our Constitution to trade away our liberties for what many of our founding fathers are credited for calling "the illusion of security", then go ahead and do that. But until then I think we should look for something more than yet another law.

As one TV pundit said today: "Murder has been illegal for a long time, but..." Perhaps we would do better to fix the murder law, or find something that transcends law to affect a change.
 
kool kat2 said:
I don't see how they put a movie ahead of their children. I take my babies (3) out to arcades but that doesn't mean im [sic] putting them in danger.
Click to expand...
I suppose it depends on the arcade, but movie theaters outfitted with high power THX certified sound systems often have high sound pressure levels that can cause permanent hearing damage. It's one thing if the child is old enough to have the manual dexterity to cover their ears (or leave the theater) and/or the language skills to complain about the loudness. Babies are helpless. It's 100% up to the parents to protect them from all harm because they're 100% helpless.

Other things like subjecting small children to disturbing sounds and imagery, messing up their sleep cycles and the hazards that come out at night are more subjective, so I won't touch them.
 
Bob Maxey said:
Hard to say how much our popular media influences people. One can assume or make a connection, but there really is no proof.
Click to expand...
Maybe not absolute, total and complete proof, but there is a whole lot of scientific evidence that strongly suggests that people are social animals (something that there's little disagreement about), and that as social animals are prone to influences that we think we have more control over than we really do.

IMHO the important thing is that when stuff like this comes up, that we stop repeating the same "guns are good/bad" polar argument, look beyond that and get serious about reversing this trend. Even if we have to face uncomfortable aspects of our lives and society as a whole.


Even something as innocuous as reality TV has some demonstrable effect. How many people fall in love with the Kardashians and therefore, try to be more like them? the shows about losing weight has likely made lots of large people feel bad about themselves. But fashion and weight are not the same as abject violence.
Click to expand...
While the consequences are less in the situations that you cite, the method of the media exerting a very real influence on people is the same.

You see, you've just admitted that the media does influence people. There's something to it! Why don't we explore this mechanism, so we can better understand the role it plays in this whole thing?


As for Bruce Lee, that is nothing new. I recall the stories and since I was a big BL fan, I saw those fools exiting the theater trying to be Mr. Lee.
Click to expand...
So people who mimic the behavior of what they see on the screen is a problem at some level. This is good. This is a start.

Let's say that you brought a child to one of those films and the horseplay ended up injuring your child. You'd say that crossed the line, right?

Now we're making progress. We've identified a potential problem, formulated a real world situation where the potential problem would become a real problem, and are on our way to drawing a line to separate what's acceptable and what isn't. This is good!


Growing up, I had my share of 22 cal guns, BB and pellet guns and those gun and holster kits created so I could fight imaginary Indians. Or that was the implication. I never shot anyone and never thought of shooting someone.
Click to expand...
I OTOH have thought about shooting people...A LOT. I think about it every time I carry, handle or fire a weapon. I keep that thought in my conscious mind so I remember for certain to never shoot anyone. I think similar thoughts while driving a car or operating other machinery that has the power to kill or maim. IMHO carelessness is the first step to an accident. But we're getting O/T...
 
kool kat2 said:
Sometimes i wonder if it weren't for so much coverage of suicides and talk of them if the thought would still cross the minds of those who have committed suicide. If kid being bullied had never heard of suicide, would he still have made that choice?
Click to expand...
Sadly once the cat is out of the bag it's a moot point. A good one nevertheless, and a great step towards thinking creatively. Thanks for that!


As for gun play, i hear too many parents nowadays saying its wrong and it will desensitize kids to real violence. I think if a kid or adult is COMPLETELY desensitized, there's more to it than playing with guns. Ive been playing violent video games since i can remember and not once have i actually wanted to cause physical harm to anyone...... minus punching a kid in elementary lol.
Click to expand...
Point taken. To be fair though, I don't think that anybody is saying that playing violent games always leads to violence. The way I see it, it's one piece of the puzzle. It's kind of like uranium. Tiny amounts of it are everywhere; we can't escape it. You can handle small pieces with relative safety. But put enough pieces together in a way that makes a critical mass, and very bad things happen.

Another thing to consider is that the people who study these things are often more concerned about how the constant practice makes the people who have never used real weapons before such efficient killers when they do it for real and for keeps. I'm not suggesting that's a reason to ban violent games of course. But I would like to challenge people to think about how that piece of the puzzle plays a role in many of these tragedies.


Its pointless, imo, to spend so much time fearing that every little thing will turn my baby into James Holmes. It didn't to me or any of my childhood friends.
Click to expand...
As humans we don't have the capacity to analyze every single cause/effect all the time. But we can work in concert, using our collective knowledge to form policies that aren't perfect, but a whole lot better than making no effort at all. We can learn and improve if we choose to.
 
kool kat2 said:
I can see your point here. Having not gone by this schedule though, its easy for me to dismiss it. My main point was that just because its not PERFECT parenting doesn't mean its bad parenting. My wife does many things "by the book" with our kids. We do others not so much by the book. Im willing to bet they'll turn out way better than i did even without perfect parenting. It just seems to me that these people will get more criticism than they should get.... from people with ill behaved brats even, just because of a late night out with the family. It really isn't their fault is what im saying. At all. Not one bit.



Im curious, how is a screening made specifically for parents with babies? I haven't heard of this before.
Click to expand...

Firstly is like to say that I'm not calling anyone a bad parent, I'm not yet a patent myself so can't comment (not told anyone yet but 12 week scan in 3 weeks! Lol) and excuse bad words (parent not patent) I'm using Swype and never check properly.lol

It is probably more cultural, but over here, young kids wool obviously be out from time to time, but not for something like the cinema. as already said, the volume alone is an issue for babies!

ODEON - Newbies

They do these screenings over here, note 12A is the oldest (pg13 I believe!)
 
sntaylor said:
Firstly is like to say that I'm not calling anyone a bad parent, I'm not yet a patent myself so can't comment (not told anyone yet but 12 week scan in 3 weeks! Lol) and excuse bad words (parent not patent) I'm using Swype and never check properly.lol

It is probably more cultural, but over here, young kids wool obviously be out from time to time, but not for something like the cinema. as already said, the volume alone is an issue for babies!

ODEON - Newbies

They do these screenings over here, note 12A is the oldest (pg13 I believe!)
Click to expand...


First, let me say.. .. congratulations :D

(And im sorry you will have to go through it :P)



The special screenings sound great. Haven't come across anything like it here......


ok so the movies aren't the best place for children that young ....... they definitely dont deserve any heat about it though, especially the ones with the deceased child .......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom