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China did bring in a law last year forbidding smoking in enclosed public places, such as restaurants, bus shelters, railway stations, etc, presumably to comply with WHO requirements. Although the only places I've actually seen it enforced is airports and western restaurants like Starbucks, McDonald's and KFC. Probably more enforcement in the metropolitan cities where the foreign tourists go, non where I am.
Smoking for the most part is still socially acceptable in mainland China, with the exceptions of HK and Macao SARs. As I'm originally from the UK, it's almost like stepping back in time 20 years.
Yes, but if I'm sitting right outside a door doing shots you can't smell that. And its been scientifically proven why people drink. There is no basis for smoking short of looking cool followed by addiction.
I'm sure govts. won't exactly be in a hurry to outlaw tobacco sales(except to minors), after all tobacco products are heavily taxed in many places and thus a major source of revenue for them. In China the tobacco industry is state owned and most cigarettes are ridiculously cheap. Tobacco is often much cheaper in developing countries.
Citations?
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Your smoking shortens my lifespan. Your drinking does not. Also, smokers die far younger then drinkers.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
A lot of fatties usually turn out to spend the whole day constantly eating small things. Then seem to think that if they have a salad and diet coke as a meal slotted in somewhere between the 50 packets of crisps that they are 'dieting'
Actually, no. Many people who are overweight and are trying to diet actually eat too little and their bodies never hit ketosis.
Just a suggestion to everyone, if you haven't spent any time in your life being overweight than you have no room to judge anyone or make comments. Getting back on track is very hard, very time consuming, and mostly VERY EXPENSIVE.
I'm still not where I want to be, and I've invested a small fortune in myself trying to shed 1lb at a time. It's not easy. Not even close. But I'm getting there.
My #1 problem? I didn't eat nearly enough, or often enough. Your stereotypical visions of people stuffing cheeseburgers down they're throat all day disgusts me to the utmost. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. It's no different than making broad sweeping racial stereotypes or calling all blondes dumb.
Everybody's situation is different, and for different reasons. Some people do eat to much. Some people eat the wrong foods. Some people have a slow metabolism. Some people eat too little. I could go on all day. There are a million different reasons and combinations why people are overweight.
I know people who consume the worst possible foods, and lots of them and do not gain a pound. Why are you not disgusted with them? Because they're body handles it better?
Did you know some people foods affect them worse than others? (Like food allegeries, but not severe enough to notice.) Different foods affect different people in different ways based on body chemistry and genetics.
Yes, I will be the first to admit I am over weight. Yes, I do love foods that aren't considered healthy by any means. So do many people. I'm Italian, and I love pasta. I'll admit that.
Do I eat fast food? Hardly ever. This has always been the case.
Do I eat healthy food? Absolutely. I love healthy food. Despite my physical size, I am healthy as can be. Yes, I need to lose the weight that's a given. But blood pressure, cholesterol, muscle mass, it's all in good shape.
I exercise nearly every day. Have been for the last 3 years. I do weight training on 3 of those days. I'm still a big guy.
I'm also working on another degree on top of certifications. I work 60 hours+ a week on top of that. I sleep perhaps 6 hours a day on average because of my workload. Does that sound like lazy to you?
kool kat2
Android Expert
Unfortunately most people have the whole people are fat because they want to be mentality. Its annoying as hell. I eat the worst food in the world. Fast food several times a week, Chinese, McDonald s, burgers,..... I exercise never, and i am skinny. A slight bump in the mid section but it's not noticeable with a shirt on. Now why punish those who can't do what I do because they gain weight? Seems pretty discriminatory... O and back when I had time to eat right and exercise i was without a bump with very little effort while an overweight friend struggled..... And worked harder than me.... So unfair
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
..er, well... um, not to over simplify, but I've been over weight (215 when my ideal weight is 165).
I got tired of buying big clothes and I just didn't like what I saw happening to me. So (here comes the over simplification
): I added 30 minutes to my 5 day a week exercise regimen and was down to my 165 in almost exactly six weeks and remains there, hitting 168 or so now and then, but back to 163 or so within a few days. Boring. 
Only diet change has been a bit more wary of high saturated fat.
That's about it.
I got tired of buying big clothes and I just didn't like what I saw happening to me. So (here comes the over simplification
): I added 30 minutes to my 5 day a week exercise regimen and was down to my 165 in almost exactly six weeks and remains there, hitting 168 or so now and then, but back to 163 or so within a few days. Boring. Only diet change has been a bit more wary of high saturated fat.
That's about it.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
..er, well... um, not to over simplify, but I've been over weight (215 when my ideal weight is 165).
I got tired of buying big clothes and I just didn't like what I saw happening to me. So (here comes the over simplification
Only diet change has been a bit more wary of high saturated fat.
That's about it.
Some people can do that. Some people cant. I know people who can literally gain/lose specific amounts of wieght at will.
OfTheDamned
The Friendly Undead
Our views on smoking and weight are based on social norms. 30 or 40 years ago it was a social norm for everyone to smoke. People smoked in hospitals for crying out loud. Doctors recommended brands of cigarettes in advertisements the way that dentists recommend gum now. Centuries ago, being overweight was a sign of wealth and social standing. Being skinny would show how poor your are. In parts of Africa being overweight is still a sign of wealth. It is all based on perspective. Now of course, science plays a part in this. Once people started taking note that smoking and/or being overweight is bad for you our conceptions started to change. James Bond got rid of his cigarettes and became more physically fit. Ultra thin became the new look for women.
As an ex-smoker and current electronic "smoker" (not really smoking) I am not too fond of cigarette smoke in public. I don't like the smell and I personally feel bad for anyone that had to be near me for all those years that I did smoke. Regardless of how many people want to look down on smokers though, it is a pretty hard core addiction. It isn't just nicotine that has you hooked either, there are tones of addictive chemicals in cigarettes. Do I feel bad for non-smokers that have to breath in second hand smoke? Yes, but I also feel bad for smokers too. They are getting the proven worst of it. I like the laws we have in Colorado. You can't smoke in public buildings and you can't smoke within a certain distance from the doors to buildings. Does it always stop people? No of course not, but it does set limits. Unfortunately, there will always be those people that don't care about anyone else. They don't care if they hurt anyone with smoke or if they are being rude by their actions. It is pretty similar to people being rude or offensive on this forum. They don't care if they hurt feelings or disrespect people. Just like smokers they think it is their right to do and say whatever they want whenever they want.
As far as people being obese or overweight, there are plenty of people that or simply overweight due to genetics. Just like all the people with really fast metabolisms that can eat anything and stay thin, there are plenty of people out there that can eat right and even exercise that just can't lose weight. Something in their makeup just isn't set right. So they battle with their weight their entire lives and many of them get depressed over it and plenty of that comes from society telling them that they aren't attractive because of their weight. Depression has a negative reaction on your metabolism so none of this does anything to improve their current situation.
In the US there is also so much based on food that it can be really hard for people to really eat right all the time. Most people meet people over lunch or go out to dinner. You have business lunches or dinner meetings for work. On a date you go out to dinner. So much of our social lives are based around food it is ridiculous. Then you add the fact that many people work extreme hours to keep their job or get that promotion and plenty of that is done behind a desk where you sit for long periods of time with no activity. Add in the fact that the US economy is very poor right now so many families are going for cheaper meals instead of healthy ones and it only adds to the weight problem.
Bottom line, most people are not overweight because they chose to be or because they are lazy. Most people right now are over worked and underpaid. They get too tired from trying to make a living to ever get anywhere near their daily required physical activity let alone set foot in a gym. Even eating properly gets a little too expensive for some people to do it all the time. People over eat due to stress and smoke because of it too. I doubt most of the people on this forum, including those passing judgement on others, are in top physical health according to their doctor.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm in horrible shape. I quit smoking a little over a year ago and I just started going back to the gym. While I'm not overweight, I know that I'm not physically fit either and I'm sure my insides are a mess. I want to be healthy and I'm trying to do it. That is up to each individual to do for themselves. Nobody can pass a law, create a fine or add a tax that is going to make anyone do anything until they decide to do it for themselves. It is no different than drug or alcohol addiction really. The first thing you have to do is admit there is a problem and take the needed steps to change things in your life. Laws don't stop heroin addicts anymore than they will stop smokers or make people be healthier. We don't need more laws. We need better education and better role models.
As an ex-smoker and current electronic "smoker" (not really smoking) I am not too fond of cigarette smoke in public. I don't like the smell and I personally feel bad for anyone that had to be near me for all those years that I did smoke. Regardless of how many people want to look down on smokers though, it is a pretty hard core addiction. It isn't just nicotine that has you hooked either, there are tones of addictive chemicals in cigarettes. Do I feel bad for non-smokers that have to breath in second hand smoke? Yes, but I also feel bad for smokers too. They are getting the proven worst of it. I like the laws we have in Colorado. You can't smoke in public buildings and you can't smoke within a certain distance from the doors to buildings. Does it always stop people? No of course not, but it does set limits. Unfortunately, there will always be those people that don't care about anyone else. They don't care if they hurt anyone with smoke or if they are being rude by their actions. It is pretty similar to people being rude or offensive on this forum. They don't care if they hurt feelings or disrespect people. Just like smokers they think it is their right to do and say whatever they want whenever they want.
As far as people being obese or overweight, there are plenty of people that or simply overweight due to genetics. Just like all the people with really fast metabolisms that can eat anything and stay thin, there are plenty of people out there that can eat right and even exercise that just can't lose weight. Something in their makeup just isn't set right. So they battle with their weight their entire lives and many of them get depressed over it and plenty of that comes from society telling them that they aren't attractive because of their weight. Depression has a negative reaction on your metabolism so none of this does anything to improve their current situation.
In the US there is also so much based on food that it can be really hard for people to really eat right all the time. Most people meet people over lunch or go out to dinner. You have business lunches or dinner meetings for work. On a date you go out to dinner. So much of our social lives are based around food it is ridiculous. Then you add the fact that many people work extreme hours to keep their job or get that promotion and plenty of that is done behind a desk where you sit for long periods of time with no activity. Add in the fact that the US economy is very poor right now so many families are going for cheaper meals instead of healthy ones and it only adds to the weight problem.
Bottom line, most people are not overweight because they chose to be or because they are lazy. Most people right now are over worked and underpaid. They get too tired from trying to make a living to ever get anywhere near their daily required physical activity let alone set foot in a gym. Even eating properly gets a little too expensive for some people to do it all the time. People over eat due to stress and smoke because of it too. I doubt most of the people on this forum, including those passing judgement on others, are in top physical health according to their doctor.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm in horrible shape. I quit smoking a little over a year ago and I just started going back to the gym. While I'm not overweight, I know that I'm not physically fit either and I'm sure my insides are a mess. I want to be healthy and I'm trying to do it. That is up to each individual to do for themselves. Nobody can pass a law, create a fine or add a tax that is going to make anyone do anything until they decide to do it for themselves. It is no different than drug or alcohol addiction really. The first thing you have to do is admit there is a problem and take the needed steps to change things in your life. Laws don't stop heroin addicts anymore than they will stop smokers or make people be healthier. We don't need more laws. We need better education and better role models.
ChadKaplowski
Member
I never had any idea that this forum was so anti smoking, there are some seriously obnoxious views on here.
I'm a smoker, have been for over a decade. I know its bad for me, but I do enjoy the sensation of relaxation it provides me with. Ultimately I would like to quit one day and have tried numerous times, but I am weak willed.
In the UK, smoking is banned in enclosed public spaces. so indoors anywhere other than your, or a friend's home. I honestly cannot understand the rationale of people being upset by second hand smoke in the open air - for one, once in the open air, its diluted, and as such not as harmful. Secondly, if you live in a city or built up area, second hand smoke really should be the least of your worries - ever heard of smog? That's airborne particles of asphault and industrial waste you're breathing in, and more and more studies are linking this to be an underlying cause of asthma. Finally, as others have pointed out, second hand smoke has never been conclusively proven to have a negative affect on your health. To my eyes, the recovery period for your body when you quit smoking is relatively fast, and as such, I cannot comprehend how taking in a diluted exhalation of someone's cigarette could be at all bad for you, other than you disliking the smell.
But yet, its still a major gripe, and if I'm honest, if there's kids near me (e.g. I'm walking down the street and there's a parent with a toddler or pram) then I'll refrain from inhaling or exhaling until they are well past me. More out of consideration for the parent's thought process than for the well being of the child.
But an outright ban on smoking in public places? That will never happen. Not only would the lobbyists never let it happen, but the reduction in taxation income for our respective governments would be far too high for them to ever consider.
In the UK, we have the NHS, and the income from cigarette taxation is the biggest subsidy that supports our public health service.
But lets just say they did find a way to completely crimilaise and ban smoking, and it happened. Then what next? Since this thread has been talking about weight issues (bit of a digression!) I'll bring it back OT. If you can ban smoking outright, then we should also ban all brands of fast food. McDonalds, KFC, Wendys, Burger King - all of these are scientifically proven to be bad for your health, yet people still eat there, and still feed their kids there regularly. Just today, a Swedish study has identifed that eating more processed meats increases your risk of prostate cancer by as much as 35%. So how on earth, when cigarette advertising is banned in the UK, are fast food chains still allowed their happy go lucky adverts inviting kids in with bright colours, clowns and the promise of naff toys?
Look around you people. There are far FAR bigger issues affecting all of our healths than the select few of us that still smoke. And proven ones at that.
I'm a smoker, have been for over a decade. I know its bad for me, but I do enjoy the sensation of relaxation it provides me with. Ultimately I would like to quit one day and have tried numerous times, but I am weak willed.
In the UK, smoking is banned in enclosed public spaces. so indoors anywhere other than your, or a friend's home. I honestly cannot understand the rationale of people being upset by second hand smoke in the open air - for one, once in the open air, its diluted, and as such not as harmful. Secondly, if you live in a city or built up area, second hand smoke really should be the least of your worries - ever heard of smog? That's airborne particles of asphault and industrial waste you're breathing in, and more and more studies are linking this to be an underlying cause of asthma. Finally, as others have pointed out, second hand smoke has never been conclusively proven to have a negative affect on your health. To my eyes, the recovery period for your body when you quit smoking is relatively fast, and as such, I cannot comprehend how taking in a diluted exhalation of someone's cigarette could be at all bad for you, other than you disliking the smell.
But yet, its still a major gripe, and if I'm honest, if there's kids near me (e.g. I'm walking down the street and there's a parent with a toddler or pram) then I'll refrain from inhaling or exhaling until they are well past me. More out of consideration for the parent's thought process than for the well being of the child.
But an outright ban on smoking in public places? That will never happen. Not only would the lobbyists never let it happen, but the reduction in taxation income for our respective governments would be far too high for them to ever consider.
In the UK, we have the NHS, and the income from cigarette taxation is the biggest subsidy that supports our public health service.
But lets just say they did find a way to completely crimilaise and ban smoking, and it happened. Then what next? Since this thread has been talking about weight issues (bit of a digression!) I'll bring it back OT. If you can ban smoking outright, then we should also ban all brands of fast food. McDonalds, KFC, Wendys, Burger King - all of these are scientifically proven to be bad for your health, yet people still eat there, and still feed their kids there regularly. Just today, a Swedish study has identifed that eating more processed meats increases your risk of prostate cancer by as much as 35%. So how on earth, when cigarette advertising is banned in the UK, are fast food chains still allowed their happy go lucky adverts inviting kids in with bright colours, clowns and the promise of naff toys?
Look around you people. There are far FAR bigger issues affecting all of our healths than the select few of us that still smoke. And proven ones at that.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
The whole anti-smoking tirade is just another part of the shift in the world becoming lopsidedly Liberal lol. And laws to prevent this kind of stuff? Seriously? What a joke. I'm an adult. I don't need people to tell me what I can and can't do with my own body.
If people need/want laws to control themselves other people, maybe we should stick those people who want these laws into a daycare, because they are thinking like children.
copestag
Android Expert
youre absolutely correct....... your personal rights far outweigh the personal rights of anyone else
copestag
Android Expert
what youre trying to do is turn a personal preference into an excuse to violate others rights (isnt this part of their right to the pursuit of happiness) ...... they are not harming you in any way........ if you have trouble breathing around cigarette smoke then dont go near smokers....... thats your responsibility....... Im allergic to tomatoes.... should we institute a national ban on the growth and use of tomatoes........ after all if some accidentally touches my food it could kill me..... Im just one guy but clearly my personal rights are more important than the rest of the nations..... the world should cater to my needs
if you have trouble breathing when around smokers outdoors then you definitely have huge problems breathing around car exhaust (which is quite more abundant than cigarette smoke even if standing by a smoker) ...... I assume you never go near public streets? or would you also want to outlaw combustion engines based on your personal health issues?
Im personally not a smoker.... never have been........ but I did grow up with 2 parents who smoked heavily..... no health effects (this is probably because health issues related to 2nd hand smoke is an unproven farce)
I agree with others in this thread in that Im highly disgusted by many other issues......... people who wear to much perfume/cologne make me want to puke, on the other hand there are those who decided bathing was a bad idea and also make me want to puke....... according to you these are clear violations of my personal rights... maybe they should be deported or death by firing squad
in the end its quite simple....... dont like smokers...... dont go around them
if you have trouble breathing when around smokers outdoors then you definitely have huge problems breathing around car exhaust (which is quite more abundant than cigarette smoke even if standing by a smoker) ...... I assume you never go near public streets? or would you also want to outlaw combustion engines based on your personal health issues?
Im personally not a smoker.... never have been........ but I did grow up with 2 parents who smoked heavily..... no health effects (this is probably because health issues related to 2nd hand smoke is an unproven farce)
I agree with others in this thread in that Im highly disgusted by many other issues......... people who wear to much perfume/cologne make me want to puke, on the other hand there are those who decided bathing was a bad idea and also make me want to puke....... according to you these are clear violations of my personal rights... maybe they should be deported or death by firing squad
in the end its quite simple....... dont like smokers...... dont go around them
copestag
Android Expert
again unproven farce..... for every website you find that claims second hand smoke is dangerous theres another that proves its not..... Im not disputing that smoke could harm YOU personally .... as you have stated you have lung issues
your personal singular health issues.... although sad indeed.... do not and should not dictate policy for the masses
you can easily avoid cigarette smoke outdoors...... in fact its probably harder not to avoid it.... as I said given your condition car exhaust is a more serious issue for you.... you should be rallying around the ban of combustion engines
my guess however is that you have a doctor.... since you said you did chemo...... and my guess is that your doctor is aware of the damage to your lungs..... and my guess is that your doctor suggested some things for you to do and not do..... and my guess is part of those suggestions was for YOU to avoid smokers........ my guess is that he didnt say the only way for you to be healthy would be if smoking were banned
again we arent talking about confined indoor spaces where you have limited options..... we are talking about a guy walking down the street smoking a cigarette...... where your exposure to his smoke if ANY is so very limited that it could only harm you if you were making a conscious decision to directly inhale every fume he was exhaling...... it IS easily avoidable and nobody is blowing it down your throat
youre confusing yourself with all this constitutional right talk..... if we ban everything that might violate a single persons rights then we will all be locked in our homes....... there is nothing in this world that doesnt violate at least 1 persons rights..... the masses far outweigh the individual..... Im sorry for your health issues but thats no reason to dictate policy for the world....... wear a respirator...... which again my guess would be that if your lungs are that bad your doctor told you to anyhow
your personal singular health issues.... although sad indeed.... do not and should not dictate policy for the masses
you can easily avoid cigarette smoke outdoors...... in fact its probably harder not to avoid it.... as I said given your condition car exhaust is a more serious issue for you.... you should be rallying around the ban of combustion engines
my guess however is that you have a doctor.... since you said you did chemo...... and my guess is that your doctor is aware of the damage to your lungs..... and my guess is that your doctor suggested some things for you to do and not do..... and my guess is part of those suggestions was for YOU to avoid smokers........ my guess is that he didnt say the only way for you to be healthy would be if smoking were banned
again we arent talking about confined indoor spaces where you have limited options..... we are talking about a guy walking down the street smoking a cigarette...... where your exposure to his smoke if ANY is so very limited that it could only harm you if you were making a conscious decision to directly inhale every fume he was exhaling...... it IS easily avoidable and nobody is blowing it down your throat
youre confusing yourself with all this constitutional right talk..... if we ban everything that might violate a single persons rights then we will all be locked in our homes....... there is nothing in this world that doesnt violate at least 1 persons rights..... the masses far outweigh the individual..... Im sorry for your health issues but thats no reason to dictate policy for the world....... wear a respirator...... which again my guess would be that if your lungs are that bad your doctor told you to anyhow
copestag
Android Expert
well I was hoping to have a discussion without resorting to 22 year old tactics ...... but since Im "ignorant" I can see thats impossible
first there are already laws in place banning smoking immediately outside of entrances etc where you cannot avoid smokers....... in my state for instance theres no smoking within 20ft of a doorway
second yes the chemicals in sidestream smoke can cause harm and are labeled as toxins........ so are the chemicals in drinking water...... there is NO factual evidence that 2nd hand smoke in public areas directly leads to health issues.... not even in your case
on the rights issue..... do you have a right to life and health? absolutely....... does that right imperically trump everything else in the world that might coincidentally through avoidable circumstances infringe upon it... absolutely not....... you have no more right to make them stop smoking in public than they have to make you stop breathing in public..... you can simply avoid them
now back to the part where we resort to childishness because we are wrong and Im clearly "ignorant".......... if you are going to try to say that the small amounts of unavoidable 2nd hand smoke that you expose yourself to are deadly for you but somehow you can manage to walk around in public where the far more serious chemicals from car exhaust are in far higher concentrations in the air you breathe and not suffer serious health issues then Im going to point you out as a liar who selfishly puts his personal desires above everyone else
I didnt see anywhere in your list where it says clean air is a right
again its quite simple...... dont like smokers..... dont go near them
first there are already laws in place banning smoking immediately outside of entrances etc where you cannot avoid smokers....... in my state for instance theres no smoking within 20ft of a doorway
second yes the chemicals in sidestream smoke can cause harm and are labeled as toxins........ so are the chemicals in drinking water...... there is NO factual evidence that 2nd hand smoke in public areas directly leads to health issues.... not even in your case
on the rights issue..... do you have a right to life and health? absolutely....... does that right imperically trump everything else in the world that might coincidentally through avoidable circumstances infringe upon it... absolutely not....... you have no more right to make them stop smoking in public than they have to make you stop breathing in public..... you can simply avoid them
now back to the part where we resort to childishness because we are wrong and Im clearly "ignorant".......... if you are going to try to say that the small amounts of unavoidable 2nd hand smoke that you expose yourself to are deadly for you but somehow you can manage to walk around in public where the far more serious chemicals from car exhaust are in far higher concentrations in the air you breathe and not suffer serious health issues then Im going to point you out as a liar who selfishly puts his personal desires above everyone else
I didnt see anywhere in your list where it says clean air is a right
again its quite simple...... dont like smokers..... dont go near them
copestag
Android Expert
yes toxins harm people..... but not when they are in miniscule concentrations
as I said there are deadly toxins in drinking water..... there are deadly toxins in the shirt you are currently wearing..... there are deadly toxins in the keyboard youre typing with
if you were locked in a chamber filled with nothing but second hand smoke and forced to breathe it for 50 years then yes you MIGHT have health complications from it
but there is no scientific evidence that second hand smoke has ever posed a serious health risk in the outdoors..... and certainly not more of a risk than naturally or otherwise occurring toxicants already in the air
if someone is standing beside a doorway that you must enter smoking then do one of two things....... ask him to step away and abide by the current laws or hold your breath for the .3 seconds it takes to walk past him and let him know hes an arsehole for being rude.... or of course theres the 3rd option..... stop pretending its harming you and deal with it for the .3 seconds
there are already rules in place to make sure the whiney are accomodated...... these rules make it completely and easily possible for them to never have to smell smoke again....... if someone is not following these rules then deal with that persons violation directly........ dont try to create more rules that accomplish nothing simply for the sake of your personal hatred for smokers in general
its not exactly easy to avoid tomatoes if I want to eat at a restaurant........ which leaves me with limited options:
never eat at a restaurant
eat at a restaurant that I can be certain will not make a mistake
have the laws changed to abolish tomatoes
which of those options sounds most appropriate while still allowing me the freedom of going out to eat?
does this pose somewhat of an imposition in my life...... sure...... I would like to eat at a Taco Bell once in a while...... but guess what..... they put tomatoes on everything..... and the tomatoes in the back touch everything at some point...... so I have to avoid Taco Bell...... is this an infringement on my rights? should I sue taco bell because they refuse to stop using tomatoes....... no I SIMPLY AVOID eating there..... and you can simply avoid smokers
for the record I personally find the habits of some smokers quite disgusting... not a fan of smokers at all... and for their sakes (1st hand smoke.... which has been factually proven to be dangerous) I wish they would give it up..... and Im glad they banned it indoors for my own selfish reasons...... hated coming home from a bowling alley or something and having to immediately wash my clothes so they dont stink up the house...... but I also think that making that a law was out of line
as I said there are deadly toxins in drinking water..... there are deadly toxins in the shirt you are currently wearing..... there are deadly toxins in the keyboard youre typing with
if you were locked in a chamber filled with nothing but second hand smoke and forced to breathe it for 50 years then yes you MIGHT have health complications from it
but there is no scientific evidence that second hand smoke has ever posed a serious health risk in the outdoors..... and certainly not more of a risk than naturally or otherwise occurring toxicants already in the air
if someone is standing beside a doorway that you must enter smoking then do one of two things....... ask him to step away and abide by the current laws or hold your breath for the .3 seconds it takes to walk past him and let him know hes an arsehole for being rude.... or of course theres the 3rd option..... stop pretending its harming you and deal with it for the .3 seconds
there are already rules in place to make sure the whiney are accomodated...... these rules make it completely and easily possible for them to never have to smell smoke again....... if someone is not following these rules then deal with that persons violation directly........ dont try to create more rules that accomplish nothing simply for the sake of your personal hatred for smokers in general
its not exactly easy to avoid tomatoes if I want to eat at a restaurant........ which leaves me with limited options:
never eat at a restaurant
eat at a restaurant that I can be certain will not make a mistake
have the laws changed to abolish tomatoes
which of those options sounds most appropriate while still allowing me the freedom of going out to eat?
does this pose somewhat of an imposition in my life...... sure...... I would like to eat at a Taco Bell once in a while...... but guess what..... they put tomatoes on everything..... and the tomatoes in the back touch everything at some point...... so I have to avoid Taco Bell...... is this an infringement on my rights? should I sue taco bell because they refuse to stop using tomatoes....... no I SIMPLY AVOID eating there..... and you can simply avoid smokers
for the record I personally find the habits of some smokers quite disgusting... not a fan of smokers at all... and for their sakes (1st hand smoke.... which has been factually proven to be dangerous) I wish they would give it up..... and Im glad they banned it indoors for my own selfish reasons...... hated coming home from a bowling alley or something and having to immediately wash my clothes so they dont stink up the house...... but I also think that making that a law was out of line
saptech
Android Expert
Tell that to all the people who have died from drunk drivers, while my smoking will kill you in maybe 20 yrs or so! Death have no age.
I'm not saying smoking is good, but I believe the gov't should just outlaw tabacco and stop coming up with all these crazy laws, u can't smoke here and there.
saptech
Android Expert
It's not the smelling from you drinking, it's the driving after you've been drinking I'm worried about. And yes, I know everybody who drink don't drive, but a hellava lot do drink and drive.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
There is zero proof second hand smoke causes you health problem. ZERO! My drinking could affect your life or your child's.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
If they outlaw tobacco then they need to get rid of liqour as well. It'll never happen, too much of an economy booster.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
I also think the law banning indoor smoking is out of line. Who is the government to tell people they can't smoke indoors? If it's a government owned building, sure! Great!
But privately owned buildings.. private businesses.. really? I think each building should have the opportunity to decide whether or not smoking is allowed in their building. The anti-smoking ban is actually the law doing the infringing on personal rights, not the other way around.
If you don't like the indoor smoking in a building? Either don't go in the building, or deal with it. Nobody is forcing you to be there.
The person/entity that owns the building should be able to decide for themselves, not the other way around.
I guess the key point is whether alcohol and cigarettes are used responsibly or not. I've no doubt ElasticNinja was talking about the former when he made his point on the previous page.