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Susan G. Komen vs. Planned Parenthood
- Thread starter AntimonyER
- Start date
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
Any facts to back your claim ? Perhaps it's based on denying females other forms of birth control ?
Abortion should be based as a medical decision between a female & health provider, any others who wish to intervene are highly suspect.
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
This claim is a bit over the top, can you offer any reputable support for your allegation ?
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
My, my, "denied an abortion", what right do you have to control another persons medical decision ?
It appears from your post that a crime has been committed by a woman that enjoyed sex. How sad.
AntimonyER
CHANGED FROM AF ADDICT MIKESTONY
The Negro Project and Margaret Sanger
Have a gander at this. Explains what the founder of PP was involved in, and some quotes from her about it. As you will see, my comments were not over the top at all.
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
Believe a more balanced view can be found at Margaret Sanger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Margaret_Higgins_Sanger.aspx
It's of note, from the wikipedia source, "And in her book Family Limitation, Sanger wrote that "no one can doubt that there are times when an abortion is justifiable but they will become unnecessary when care is taken to prevent conception. This is the only cure for abortions."[101]"
AntimonyER
CHANGED FROM AF ADDICT MIKESTONY
Perhaps, but even in Wikipedia, it references her eugenics past. Perhaps you don't agree, but the combination of her statements in favor of eugenics, coupled with her penchant for opening clinics in poor,black neighborhoods, just stinks to me.
T
TxGoat
Guest
I never understood why conservatives have such a laissez faire approach when it comes to big business, but when it comes to individual freedoms, it's always, "Let me impose my morality on you". A corporation's immoral acts affect MILLIONS of people (i.e. the banking industry, the oil industry, the pharmaceutical industry), but for whatever reason when Loose Lucy wants to get contraceptives or an abortion the conservatives make such a fuss.
If the self-righteous ring-wing are so great then why don't they attack the immoral acts of big business the way they attack abortion clinics? I'm not talking about violent attacks btw, although that's also a great hypocrisy of the religious right as well, meet one immoral act with another immoral act.
If you want to impose your moral belief on someone then why don't you practice on an entity that has NO MORAL VALUES to begin with, large corporations?
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
I would venture that her view of eugenics was widely supported in that time.
She did offer birth control education to all, regardless of ethnicity or income.
Your claim that she had a "... penchant for opening clinics in poor,black neighborhoods ..." is not supported.
breadnatty08
pain rustique
Very well said. It's simply the hypocrisy that exists with the Republican candidates (for the most part, excluding Ron Paul). They all want to be strict Constitutionalists, but they also want to impose some sort of moral agenda on you (religious or otherwise).
T
TxGoat
Guest
If you look at each of the GOP candidates, Mitt dabbled in greed/excess, Newt's hobbies include disrespecting the sanctity of marriage, past corruption charges, and an outright nasty personality, Santorum is such a newcommer but I think that's by design. Who knows what skeletons exist in his closet. I definitely think that if the GOP is serious about taking the white house they need to give Ron Paul a serious look.
T
TxGoat
Guest
Why stop there? Why not say anyone touching themselves is morally wrong? Why not say anyone THINKING impure thoughts should be hanged?
The Taliban also believes that women don't deserve an education, are to be completely submissive to their husbands, and shouldn't be allowed to vote. Just because it's YOUR moral code, it doesn't mean it should be EVERYONE'S moral code.
If more people that followed a mainstream religion would PRACTICE their morality instead of just PREACHING and trying to LEGISLATE their morality onto everyone else, this world might be better off.
kool kat2
Android Expert
Now why should the doctor pay any price at all??? They're providing a medical service. That is all. A doctor's personal feelings on any subject should not dictate wich medical procedures they can (edit : want to) perform.
Now all 3 of my kids were accidents. Our method of birth control failed us both times. I heavily pushed towards abortion because, well, we were doing what we could to not conceive. Your opinion, or anyone else's should NOT come into play on a decision like this! We were not prepared to take care of any children, financially or mentally. I don't see how you can say we should have been forced to deal with it, even if we were taking precautions. We didn't want children. Our choice. Butt out.
Maybe we should take your cigarettes away as well, after all, it is MY opinion that they're wrong, right?
The thing with abortion is that people are against them for religious reasons and some think that they become a person at conception. Not everyone has those religious beliefs and the definition of a person before birth is debated. For that reason it should be left up to the individual to decide what is right for them.
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
Believe an al-Qaeda member would have put it differently. A pill can't be killed, but those seeking an abortion, as well as doctors that perform them can. Is this the heavy price you seek ?
AntimonyER
CHANGED FROM AF ADDICT MIKESTONY
The problem with your argument, is that this country was founded on the principles of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. This is not a relgious belief, but an AMERICAN one. Life came first for a reason, and Liberty takes a back seat when it involves taking, or diminishing, human life, in ALL our laws, with the exception of ABORTION. It is the only act where one person's liberty is allowed to trump another person's life in our laws today. Science has already established that once conception occurs, the group of cells which make up the embryo have LIFE. And since never in the world's history has a woman given birth to something other than a human child, it can also by scientific reasoning be determined that the embryo is HUMAN, and therefore HUMAN LIFE.
So many of you are proclaiming that abortion is your right, since it is your body. But the human life created via conception is NOT your life, it belongs to another, regardless of how dependant it is on you and your body. So without once bringing in religion to the conversation, I have shown that abortion isn't just some violation of a religious belief, but is in fact a violation of the very fabric of our nation's founding principles.
kool kat2
Android Expert
As far as I know, those cells had life before conception. By your logic, if a pregnancy threatens the woman's life, she should deal with it because the thing inside of her can be defined as "human life" and it has rights.
T
TxGoat
Guest
Wow, so all those topics I've heard about when actual life takes place revolving around consciousness etc. they were just speculation?
And Kool Kat's post does have merit, spermatozoa have life qualities to them. Thus, does that mean that we are not to do anything sexual unless its end product is a child? Your argument just killed the entire porn industry.
kool kat also raises another valid point, since 2nd hand cigarette smoke is known to cause cancer, why haven't we eliminated it (someone's right to happiness is a conflict of interest to someone's right to life, right)? And to that effect, why stop there? That big company that's polluting our land, lets go ahead and end their "Happiness" since their actions are at odds with one's life. Lets also go ahead and put an end to the internal combustion engine since that produces a LOT of pollution as well.
As I've stated before, conservatives have no problem trying to mandate personal morality, but do nothing against the immoral acts in the name of greed. Just another hypocrisy of the religious right I guess.
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
It IS a right, get over it. No one is going to force you to have an abortion, so stop trying to deny others of their constitutionally protected right.
The key words here are "subsequent to viability".
Roe v. Wade
"(c) For the stage subsequent to viability the State, in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life, may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother. Pp. 163-164; 164-165."
sherri
Android Expert
Obama care? I had colon cancer. I have a small, family run (since 1967) business. Business is off 70 %. Let go 1 employee. She now gets unemployment. Can't afford health insurance. Guess who is gonna die of colon cancer? Abortion? If I was pregnant, who the hell would pay for pre- natal care? Hospitalization to give birth? (I have 2 uteruses....uterii?...thus requiring c-sections....)Food for baby? All that giving birth requires? For the absolutes that say "give birth then put it up for adoption to a couple yearning for a baby...." What about ME? Who is paying for c-section? Anaesthesia for me? Pain meds for me? Care for my existing children while I give birth to this child who may be severely deformed because I had no pre-natal care? If child is so ill /deformed/handicapped, who will adopt it?
Explain. In plain language. If I get pregnant with a child I am not prepared for, (let's use rape as an example...) abortion (or pregnancy termination) is ECONOMICALLY better for me. If "cells" are damaged and will result in a severely handicapped human, abortion is ECONOMICALLY better for "society".
Emotionally, is a totally separate issue, and the Susan G. Komen issue isn't based on this. They did the right thing.
Explain. In plain language. If I get pregnant with a child I am not prepared for, (let's use rape as an example...) abortion (or pregnancy termination) is ECONOMICALLY better for me. If "cells" are damaged and will result in a severely handicapped human, abortion is ECONOMICALLY better for "society".
Emotionally, is a totally separate issue, and the Susan G. Komen issue isn't based on this. They did the right thing.
AntimonyER
CHANGED FROM AF ADDICT MIKESTONY
I understand what the Supreme Court has previously ruled. But the Supreme Court has been wrong before:
Dred Scott v. Sanford decision:
The problem with Supreme Court opinions, is they are made by men (and women), who are not infallible. I can't argue, abortion IS a right, for now. But slavery was also a right, as was treating blacks as an underclass in our country's past. Incredibly and morally wrong, but a RIGHT. To say for me to "get over it" is to dismiss the history of this country, and that we should accept the status quo, without considering that perhaps what we as a country consider is a right, is instead a tragic wrong inflicted on a group of people who are unable to protect themselves.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Yes! Off with their head(s)
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
My slaves are highly paid Harvard grads. And they are white, too.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
We were founded on religious freedom. If you did not believe in God, you would have found life to be quite difficult. The founding fathers definitely professed a belief in God. They believed in God Given rights.