ElasticNinja
Android Expert
What next, asking for ID when buying a gun will infringe on rights?
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The Gun Law Discussion
- Thread starter Speed Daemon
- Start date
What next, asking for ID when buying a gun will infringe on rights?
chrlswltrs
Extreme Android User
Since you do not live in America and don't know how things work here I will fill you in on the process of buying a gun:
You choose the gun you want, then you fill out BATFE form 4473 which includes your drivers license number which is verified by the dealer. Then your information is ran through the NICS (National Instant Check System) which verifies that you can legally own a firearm. If there is no problem you can purchase the gun, if there is a problem you can not. Depending on the problem there is either a waiting period while further investigation is done or it is just no.
Now quit listening to media lies instead of educating yourself. If you want to tell people in other countries how they should do things you should at least educate yourself on how things are already done first!!
**Before it comes up, I'll go ahead and dispel the myth that anyone can just buy guns online without a background check. When you buy a gun online, it is not sent to you. It is sent to a FFL dealer who conducts the exact same background check as if you walked into a gun store to buy one.
copestag
Android Expert
It seems to infringe on the right to vote!
Speed Daemon
Android Expert
I'm sorry, but IMO those who think that armed violence is the one and only way to protect their children shouldn't be allowed near any children!
chrlswltrs
Extreme Android User
IMO, Anyone who thinks a madman should be able to shoot children uninhibited and unchallenged like fish in a barrel for several minutes before police can finally show up hates all children.
JohnLaird
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what the new background check legislation that they are trying to push through the senate is supposed to change. Can someone break it down for me? I've bought guns online before...same as buying it in a store...you have to submit to a NICS check and pick it up from an FFL dealer before you get the gun anyway. Not like they just mail it to your house. The only so-called "loop-hole" I know of is if you buy/trade a gun from another private citizen.
chrlswltrs
Extreme Android User
Initially it will change absolutely nothing. Private sales will still be legal. The only thing it will do is create a national registry for those that choose to register their guns or buy them once this goes into effect if it passes.
sntaylor
Android Expert
Clearly this one is going to be shut down soon.....
Clearly a mad man shouldn't be allowed to shoot any one any where, but it happens and will continue to happen, particularly I'm America for a number of reasons. Being able to own guns didn't prevent the dead in Serbia earlier in the week, people are the problem, yes. Sadly the tool of choice is guns due to the nature of how it can so easily be used!
There is no one simple answer, clearly in a country as big and heavily populated by guns with a stubbornness towards their right for ownership of said weapon, a ban is never going to work...and that's not because of the criminal element who would still get guns, because these school shootings would not happen as often regardless, as the crazies won't be able to access them as readily.
Regardless it ain't going to happen!
As for the constant talk of us foreigners trying to tell you how to do blah blah blah..... Sorry but its a public forum on gun law discussion thread, doesn't specify country and we can give a better perspective on what its like with say a hand gun ban, better than that of a video from well over ten years ago based on fox hunter protestors, people who want to be able to chase a poor animal across the country with a pack of dogs to rip it apart in the name of sport! I stay in farming community, and know what foxes can do to live stock, so I support farmers lamping where required, not that from a bunch of toffs!
I also agree that the guy who shot the robbers was unfairly treated, but as stupid as the law is, he broke it by using excessive force.... Again I don't agree on this especially as using a bigger weapon in defence was his only crime.
I can't remember much else of that video as it was a while ago I watched it and I'm currently in sleep mode again 0344!
Those of us not in America do have an opinion, I don't have any issue with you taking about Scottish independence if you want, hell it may affect you more than any gun ban would affect me!
We are all allowed our free speech are we not?(wait for the comment regarding it being taken away after guns blah blah blah)
Clearly a mad man shouldn't be allowed to shoot any one any where, but it happens and will continue to happen, particularly I'm America for a number of reasons. Being able to own guns didn't prevent the dead in Serbia earlier in the week, people are the problem, yes. Sadly the tool of choice is guns due to the nature of how it can so easily be used!
There is no one simple answer, clearly in a country as big and heavily populated by guns with a stubbornness towards their right for ownership of said weapon, a ban is never going to work...and that's not because of the criminal element who would still get guns, because these school shootings would not happen as often regardless, as the crazies won't be able to access them as readily.
Regardless it ain't going to happen!
As for the constant talk of us foreigners trying to tell you how to do blah blah blah..... Sorry but its a public forum on gun law discussion thread, doesn't specify country and we can give a better perspective on what its like with say a hand gun ban, better than that of a video from well over ten years ago based on fox hunter protestors, people who want to be able to chase a poor animal across the country with a pack of dogs to rip it apart in the name of sport! I stay in farming community, and know what foxes can do to live stock, so I support farmers lamping where required, not that from a bunch of toffs!
I also agree that the guy who shot the robbers was unfairly treated, but as stupid as the law is, he broke it by using excessive force.... Again I don't agree on this especially as using a bigger weapon in defence was his only crime.
I can't remember much else of that video as it was a while ago I watched it and I'm currently in sleep mode again 0344!
Those of us not in America do have an opinion, I don't have any issue with you taking about Scottish independence if you want, hell it may affect you more than any gun ban would affect me!
We are all allowed our free speech are we not?(wait for the comment regarding it being taken away after guns blah blah blah)
JohnLaird
Well-Known Member
Sir I understand that you have an opinion. Everyone does. It's just that ignorance is very annoying and arrogance is even worse.
After all of these shootings (and the mass stabbing yesterday) something does need to change. I don't think taking guns away is the answer. I doubt better mental health services would solve the whole problem but it would at least be a step in the right direction...I don't hear the president talking about that. All he wants to do is slap a band-aid on a bleeding artery.
Speed Daemon
Android Expert
In a word, no. At least not in a Constitutional sense.
Never mind the fact that you are under the jurisdiction of one sovereign nation, and are not protected by the laws of other nations. You are on a private forum, which means that you are a guest, and expected to abide by the rules of the house. The house rules here give you certain privileges, and expect those who post to follow certain guidelines.
Although this is not my house, and I don't get to make the rules here, I do hope that one bad actor does not get his wish of getting a thread shut down. I have seen some good and conscientious posts come out of this thread, and think it would be a shame to silence those voices just because one person acts out.
Thanks to all who have participated here in good faith, and TIA to those who wish to!
Speed Daemon
Android Expert
To be fair, we should recognize that making laws is the job of Congress, not the President.
I agree that something substantial and on-target needs to be done. As the recent stabbing attack, a previous bow-and-arrow attack have shown, finding one mechanical scapegoat to punish isn't going to do a single thing to interrupt the chain of violence in America. And it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to recognize that severe mental illness is the one thing that most if not all of these crimes have in common. From Charles Whitman, who had been under psychiatric care before the shooting, and was found to have a brain tumor during his autopsy, to Dylan Quick (the Lone Star CC stabber), who admitted being obsessed with thoughts of stabbing people to death, there is one common thread.
In a nation that has turned its back on the mentally ill, from cutting social programs to health insurance caps on mental health treatment, there's obviously a lot of room for improvement. No pun intended, but it looks like a "no brainer" to me. The best part about this approach is that everybody who needs help could benefit, and we don't necessarily have to pass more "get tough on" laws. I think that's the right place to start.
I think that in the context of everyone being entitled to share opinions about each other's laws in a respectful fashion for a fair enough debate, the thread faces no danger, and we'll see no issues.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Yup, Serbia being greater Europe's most armed country failed to prevent a single one of those thirteen people being murdered. Same with regards to well armed Nordic states.
chrlswltrs
Extreme Android User
Part of the "universal background check" bill that will be voted on soon is going to have a HUGE negative impact. Doctors, nurses, or anyone else that works in the medical profession will be able to anonymously report anyone who is getting any type of medical treatment at which point they will lose their legal right to own firearms. Even if they are perfectly safe to do so. It is a very long process to get those rights back if they ever can at all. The most dangerous part of this is that it isn't just doctors anymore who have more information about treatment who can report someone.
Veterans are already being singled out by many lawmakers. Combine these 2 facts and I already personally know some Veterans that are just not receiving any treatment at all for depression or PTSD because they are afraid of losing their rights. They own guns and are perfectly safe to do so, but all it takes is some anti gun worker who does nothing but schedule appointments at the VA to report them, and they lose their rights.
No one talks about this aspect and the invasion of doctor/patient confidentiality. It is one thing if someone is actually a threat, but only a doctor should be making that call.
Veterans are already being singled out by many lawmakers. Combine these 2 facts and I already personally know some Veterans that are just not receiving any treatment at all for depression or PTSD because they are afraid of losing their rights. They own guns and are perfectly safe to do so, but all it takes is some anti gun worker who does nothing but schedule appointments at the VA to report them, and they lose their rights.
No one talks about this aspect and the invasion of doctor/patient confidentiality. It is one thing if someone is actually a threat, but only a doctor should be making that call.
copestag
Android Expert
even worse than depression or PTSD.....
according to the NY safeact you can lose your permits and have your guns confiscated if you have allergies and take Benadryl
was just reading through the bill working in the Senate...... seems they are wanting to outlaw any sales of firearms by private individuals who advertise the sale on the internet or any publication.... in other words the only way to buy a gun from a private individual will be the old gangster/criminal method... "hey you know anybody looking to offload some heat?"
also in the finer details they are circumventing and banning all conceal carry
Im sure theres more Right stripping in there...... I only took a cursory glance
according to the NY safeact you can lose your permits and have your guns confiscated if you have allergies and take Benadryl
was just reading through the bill working in the Senate...... seems they are wanting to outlaw any sales of firearms by private individuals who advertise the sale on the internet or any publication.... in other words the only way to buy a gun from a private individual will be the old gangster/criminal method... "hey you know anybody looking to offload some heat?"
also in the finer details they are circumventing and banning all conceal carry
Im sure theres more Right stripping in there...... I only took a cursory glance
chrlswltrs
Extreme Android User
I missed that part. Makes sense though. If all CC is banned, crime will skyrocket, then they can say they need to do more and get the gun ban they want anyways. It all about the agenda, screw rights or safety...
If this really had anything at all to do with safety they could get rid of defenseless victim zones and have national reciprocity for CC. There is no legitimate reason why I can carry a gun daily in WA but not in OR or several other states.
Speed Daemon
Android Expert
Do you have any links to the text of this bill? I'd like to be able to read it and let my senator know where I stand on the various points. I've been meaning to contact her office about this issue, and unfortunately I was dead asleep when they called me today. This is one issue that is just begging for responsible citizens to speak up and let their wishes be known, so that their elected representatives will vote accordingly (or get voted out when they come up for re-election).
The idea of turning members of the medical profession is absolutely repulsive! Medicine is probably one of the last safe havens where people feel free to be open so they can get the care that they (and their families) need. If a law is passed that essentially trashes all of the HIPAA Privacy Rule and more, that will set our nation back 50 years or more closer to the Dark Ages. People will not seek treatment for anything that might have the slightest hint of taboo to it. And disease will flourish while our people suffer and die. Not acceptable!
More and more it's becoming obvious that this is a health care issue, not a gun issue.
copestag
Android Expert
exactly.....
the problem with this approach is they failed to ask themselves a simple question:
which is better
the ability to quickly forbid and confiscate guns for anyone prescribed psychotropic medications (which includes Benadryl)
OR
people with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or some other serious illness who refuse treatment because they dont want their rights stripped
tough decision.... I think if a psycho is going to have a gun, I would prefer that psycho is taking medication...... and as we all should be able to agree.... if a psycho wants a gun it wont matter what the law says
and I certainly would hate to see millions of allergy sufferers stripped of their rights
gosh........ for that matter I bet we would be hard pressed to find anyone in the country who hasnt at some point taken a benadryl (diphenhydramine) product ......... considering its one of the most popular products for the treatment of the common cold
so if youve ever had a cold..... chances are good youve forfeited your rights to own a gun in NY...... and soon nationwide
as for the universal background checks and universal registration goes......... one just has to look at the track record of our government to understand why its not wanted
take 2 recent events as an example:
the Governor of Missouri upon request just released a list of gun permit holders to the Fed Gov in violation of state law...... no accountability there..... so now the Feds have a list started... what harm could come from that some have asked?
the EPA released personal information on thousands of farmers and ranchers to ECO terrorist groups which places these private citizens and their families in grave danger....... no big deal I guess..... once caught the EPA response was ...oops we can just ask them to give it back...... ROFL ya they wont read it or anything theyll just give it right back.... no harm no foul
do I want idiots with an agenda to know how many and what types of weapons I have in my home? NO
ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
That's just another reason to add to my list if why I hate health care professionals. Also, wouldn't that violate doctor patient confidentiality? Also the universal background check is a joke.
ItnStln511
Android Enthusiast
Wow...just wow! Do you have a link for this? I've got to see it so I can post this stupidity on Facebook.
You mean like the ones used in these so called killing sprees have come from?
Speed Daemon
Android Expert
No, that's not true. Benadryl
jhtalisman
Android Enthusiast
What about the 2 four year olds who have shot and killed an older woman and a six year old in the past week. One with the firearm of a sheriff's deputy, the other of a "law abiding citizen"?
There are irresponsible gun owners out there that are not classified as criminals, which is a huge part of accidental shootings. The state I reside in (Tennessee) has an accidental shooting death rate of 2 and a half times the national average. Responsible gun owners, I think not. These are not gang bangers, convicted felons; these are non criminal owners whose weapons discharged without purpose whether in their hands or those of someone else.
There are irresponsible gun owners out there that are not classified as criminals, which is a huge part of accidental shootings. The state I reside in (Tennessee) has an accidental shooting death rate of 2 and a half times the national average. Responsible gun owners, I think not. These are not gang bangers, convicted felons; these are non criminal owners whose weapons discharged without purpose whether in their hands or those of someone else.
Tom the Dancing Bug on Registration: The Path to Tyranny. First they came to register... I know I said I'd stay away from this thread but after I saw this I just had to share.
chrlswltrs
Extreme Android User
So these parents chose to be irresponsible, the same as when someone chooses to be irresponsible and kill someone while driving drunk. Should every person in America face more restrictions on what they can drive when they are exercising the privilage of driving? Then why should millions of responsible gun owners have more restrictions about exercising a right because of a few irresponsible gun owners???
Why should I feel more remorse or responsibility for someone killed by a gun than an automobile?? Both ways innocent people die at the hands of someone irresponsible or not right mentally??
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
In Ireland guns are required to be kept in locked gun cases, I think that is pretty reasonable. Would help prevent kids and criminals getting access to them anyhow.