The Judeo-Christian Moral Standard

[hakr100]

You do realize that some of the worlds greatest scientist believe, or believed in God? Hawking, Einstein, and many others have said that the only explanation is an intelligent creator.

My point here is not about the existence of god and never has been.

My points:

man cannot and will not know the nature of god, if there is a god

there is no proof for the existence of god.

belief in god is based upon nothing more than, well, belief.

 

[WAdude]

Joe Smith, 1995, scroll down to the conclusion.

My dad?! Nope the INTERNET.

 

[WAdude]

WOW! Thanks mpw. WAdude, here we are trying to have an intelligent discussion and you reply by plagiarizing someone else's work? no wonder the reply sounded coherent. young man, it is obvious now that your interest is solely to troll and that you have no desire to engage in a discussion. You are pathetic.

No you are pathetic. Do you want to know what faith is? Faith is the fact that you think that an explosion billions of years ago created the Universe, sorry but no one has yet to even show an explosion that can manage to pull matter together only seperate it. And the best thing is you dont even know where all that matter came from in the first place. And anyways, with all that energy, you need a lot of mass, what gave all that matter its mass in the first place?

And BTW, you call me pathetic but you forgot to say, "YES, WAdude, even though you are pathetic for copy-pasting shit on the internet, you still got me, it was Jesus Christ that created Christianity.

 

[WAdude]

My point here is not about the existence of god and never has been.

My points:

man cannot and will not know the nature of god, if there is a god....

Your right, we will never know the nature of a god, that doesnt mean there isnt one though.

 

[momoceio]

No you are pathetic. Do you want to know what faith is? Faith is the fact that you think that an explosion billions of years ago created the Universe, sorry but no one has yet to even show an explosion that can manage to pull matter together only seperate it. And the best thing is you dont even know where all that matter came from in the first place. And anyways, with all that energy, you need a lot of mass, what gave all that matter its mass in the first place?

And btw, you call me pathetic but you forgot to say, "YES, WAdude, even though you are pathetic for copy-pasting shit on the internet, you still got me, it was Jesus Christ that created Christianity.

It was actually explained to you...forget which thread. First of all, it wasn't an explosion but rather an expansion. It didn't pull matter together...it expanded and is still expanding (the universe). The mass came from (at least if you follow m theory) the collision of two universes which spawned our universe. It may not have been totally proven yet, however, at least proof exists and it makes sense. Sure it takes some faith (if that's what you want to call it) but science very beautifully explains just about everything that we know and don't know. I was born and raised in church for 18 years of my life...and then I woke up. It's like the Matrix...only real.

 

[Crude]

What's the difference between an explosion and an expansion? Seems like the same thing....also I want to see this proof of two universes colliding. I'm not saying it isn't true I'm just saying that proof is at best a model based on what we know about the universe....and we know soooo much. I think proof has to be something that can be recreated or observed before it can be called proof.

 

[WAdude]

It was actually explained to you...forget which thread. First of all, it wasn't an explosion but rather an expansion. It didn't pull matter together...it expanded and is still expanding (the universe). The mass came from (at least if you follow m theory) the collision of two universes which spawned our universe. It may not have been totally proven yet, however, at least proof exists and it makes sense. Sure it takes some faith (if that's what you want to call it) but science very beautifully explains just about everything that we know and don't know. I was born and raised in church for 18 years of my life...and then I woke up. It's like the Matrix...only real.

I think I may have said this, but if that is true, that two Universes collided, then four collided to make those two, and eight to make those four and so on. It would turnout to be his huge pyramid that starts with our Universe on top, and never ends towards the bottom. Which is pretty much saying, "turtles all the way down". Because if you are saying that two Universes created ours, then there are Universes outside of ours, then the pyramid would not start with our univers at the top, because then our Universe is on a collision course too, so then the pyramid never ends or never begins.


And if there are Universes outside of ours, then what are all those Universes contained in (kinda like galaxies are contained in a Universe), and then what created what holds all the Universes in place? See, you would get "turles all the way down, and up".


And BTW, there is still no proof of what gave all that matter its mass to create all that energy, they call it the God Atom or God Particle, or something like that. But they think they are close. The God Particle - National Geographic Magazine

 

[mpw]

My dad?! Nope the INTERNET.

No the internet didn't write that passage, Joe Smith did. It would seem from your post that you believe the internet to be sentient, it isn't.

Either way, whether you believe that Joe Smith was the author, or whether wrongly the internet is, it's still plagiarism... oh, and rude.

...Do you want to know what faith is?...

Never having to say sorry?
Never having to admit you're wrong?
Futile?

...And BTW, you call me pathetic but you forgot to say, "YES, WAdude, even though you are pathetic for copy-pasting shit on the internet, you still got me, it was Jesus Christ that created Christianity.

Maybe he didn't say it 'cause it isn't true? 'Jesus' never existed in the form described in the bible, therefore he neither founded, or spreadeded Christianity about.

Jesus is nothing more than a brand, like Barry Scott or Ronald McDonald IMO.

 

[Isthmus]

No you are pathetic. Do you want to know what faith is? Faith is the fact that you think that an explosion billions of years ago created the Universe, sorry but no one has yet to even show an explosion that can manage to pull matter together only seperate it. And the best thing is you dont even know where all that matter came from in the first place. And anyways, with all that energy, you need a lot of mass, what gave all that matter its mass in the first place?

And BTW, you call me pathetic but you forgot to say, "YES, WAdude, even though you are pathetic for copy-pasting shit on the internet, you still got me, it was Jesus Christ that created Christianity.

Now you're just being incoherent and pathetic. You really need to pay more attention in school man, basic discussion skills and reading comprehension don't seem to be getting through to you. Now please go troll some other site and leave the grown ups to the intelligent conversation.

 

[mpw]

...what created what holds all the Universes in place? See, you would get "turles all the way down, and up"....

What you got against the turtle theory?

The point is atheists are still looking for the answers, you gave up looking when you found God; which apparently was when you were born, which meant you never bothered looking.

 

[WAdude]

Why dont you answer the question that I asked? Or try.

 

[WAdude]

What you got against the turtle theory?

The point is atheists are still looking for the answers, you gave up looking when you found God; which apparently was when you were born, which meant you never bothered looking.

That means you dont have answers, nor proof, so at the time being, which is right now, the whole two Universes thing never hapenned, because there are no answers to it. The same thing with God, at the time being, there is no God (to you guys) because there is no proof of him, but there will be when you find some. Which is what you are saying.



Anyways, how will we find answers to things outside our Universe (for ex: in our Universe, a hot cup of coffee gets cold over time, we can use mathematics to predict how long it will take for that cup of coffee to get cold, on the other hand, in another Universe, a hot cup of coffee gets even hotter, we can not use our mathematics to predict that, we would have to study it, but we cant, because its outside our Universe) what makes scientists think that other Universes follow the same laws as ours does? Meaning, they cant know, because they cant study it, because we can only study things inside our Universe. So really we will never know.



BTW, I have nothing against the Turtle theory, I just put that in there because I read the whole story thing (on wiki), and really, the scientist that made fun of the old lady (who said "very clever young man, but its turtles all the way down), was actually making fun of himself (because the same thing applies to the Universe, "its Universes all the way down, and up").



But my point is that with all the explaining scientists have to do, you would end up with a story that never ends and never begins, and you cant tell a story that never ends or begins. That to me is supporting evidence as to why there is a god. May it be my God, or Budhha, there has to be one. And for the question of what made that god then, well, look at the bible, God already answered it. I am that I am. He is his own creation, his greatest, he is God.


To be honest, the bible even mentions a thing or two about why with answering questions, you would never get to a point. Where the serpent says "Yea hat God said, you shall not eat of every tree of the garden?", first sentence that came out of the serpents mouth is a question, hmmm.

Truly, by asking yourself questions, you will not get anywhere, just farther away from the existence of a god.

 

[mpw]

That means you dont have answers...

Correct, same as the religious... but we have questions, the religious stopped asking questions.

Even a child's mind knows to ask questions to figure out what it doesn't understand.

...The same thing with God...

No, not the same thing. The Big Bang theory, is just a theory based on the understanding we have of our universe, nobody proposes the Big Bang is fully understood, but the theory is based on observations and understanding.

God, is based on nothing, no theory that's based on observation, no evidence, just a story told to you as a child.

...So really we will never know...

Possibly; but if another universe is discovered the question of how quickly coffee gets cold(something you've denied the existence of btw) will be asked be scientists, and will more than likely be observed and proven. Those of faith won't even be asking the question.

You know what people like you will be saying when science finds the answer to the existence of the universe?
'Nar, God made it seem that way to test your faith.'

The fact is I can't prove God isn't real, not because I can't provide proof, but because you won't/can't accept the proof, even as it's presented to you; you don't have the capacity to not believe, you're limited in your capacity to understand and learn in a way that atheists are not.

 

[CXXV]

Hmmm...The OP must be a southern baptist

 

[mpw]

... ...

The troll in the pink beads is kinda cute

 

[WAdude]

Correct, same as the religious... but we have questions, the religious stopped asking questions.

Even a child's mind knows to ask questions to figure out what it doesn't understand.


No, not the same thing. The Big Bang theory, is just a theory based on the understanding we have of our universe, nobody proposes the Big Bang is fully understood, but the theory is based on observations and understanding.

God, is based on nothing, no theory that's based on observation, no evidence, just a story told to you as a child.


Possibly; but if another universe is discovered the question of how quickly coffee gets cold(something you've denied the existence of btw) will be asked be scientists, and will more than likely be observed and proven. Those of faith won't even be asking the question.

You know what people like you will be saying when science finds the answer to the existence of the universe?
'Nar, God made it seem that way to test you're faith.'

The fact is I can't prove God isn't real, not because I can't provide proof, but because you won't/can't accept the proof, even as it's presented to you; you don't have the capacity to not believe, you're limited in your capacity to understand and learn in a way that atheists are not.

The religious dont ask themselves questions because they would get nowhere. The existence of a god cannot and will not be proven by science ever, simply because again science and religion dont go, its like trying to mix oil and water, youd have to stir it up, and stir it again, and again and again, to the point where the more we stir it up, the more we learn we will never get to mix it.

And you said if another Universe gets discovered, scientists will get to the point where they are going to observe and learn about it, correct, but it will happen again, and again, and again. They will find more and more Universes, and more and more things to observe, and in the end, they have to ask themselves what contains all these Universes, and what created what contains all these Universes, and if there are more of these things that contain Universes, what contains- what contains those Universes, and so on and so on. What I mean, is the story would never end, or "turtles all the way up", and then again, what happened before all this ever even happened, or "turtles all the way down''.

And this is mentioned in the bible, again, the very first sentence that came out of the snakes mouth was a question, and the more questions we asked oursleves, the farher away we have gotten from the existence of a god (sadly, we call this evolving, or learning, but really, in the end, we die, and all this learning, never got us anywhere). Like I said, you cant mix oil and water, the more and more you stir it up, the more you will get farther from the point of it ever mixing.

 

[Isthmus]

you cant mix oil and water...

actually that's not true, if you heat up the water and turn it into high pressure steam, you can use it to atomize oil into a fine mist. the technique is used in industrial boilers all the time, so yes they can be mixed.

...the more and more you stir it up, the more you will get farther from the point of it ever mixing.

again not correct, the more you stirr it up, the more centrifugal force acts on the mixture, eventually it mimics gravity and as in a stable mixture the heavier water will fall out of the solution while the lighter oil migrates toward the center of the vortex. centrifugal separators work on this exact principle.

Basic applied science, Trollster.

 

[mpw]

...They will find more and more Universes, and more and more things to observe...

You assume, based on zero evidence, based on nothing but 'fear' that an answer other than one you can accept be found.

What if the scientists find conclusive non fairy-based proof of the cause of the universe? What do you say then?

...the very first sentence that came out of the snakes mouth was a question...

It's.A.Story.

There was no snake, no first sentence, it's all just made-up.

 

[WAdude]

actually that's not true, if you heat up the water and turn it into high pressure steam, you can use it to atomize oil into a fine mist. the technique is used in industrial boilers all the time, so yes they can be mixed.


again not correct, the more you stirr it up, the more centrifugal force acts on the mixture, eventually it mimics gravity and as in a stable mixture the heavier water will fall out of the solution while the lighter oil migrates toward the center of the vortex. centrifugal separators work on this exact principle.

Basic applied science, Trollster.

You actually thought I literally meant that "You cant mix oil and water", it was to support a point. Did someone ever punch you in the face in college, they should have.

But if what you say is true, and it probably is, then the more questions we ask the closer we get to the existence of a god. Which is stupid, cause then (if you believe in the bible and what it says) the serpent asked a question, and got us farher from Gods word, but we got to the point where we ask so many questions, we get closer to the existence of a god, which means we'd be going in a circle. Could be true. I dont know, we dont know.

 

[chrisinsocalif]

What do you expect? Giving religion a moral authority is quite a stretch. Obviously the book is man made so God exhibits human behavior. It's sad people still believe in it as truth.

 

[WAdude]

You assume, based on zero evidence, based on nothing but 'fear' that an answer other than one you can accept be found.

What if the scientists find conclusive non fairy-based proof of the cause of the universe? What do you say then?


It's.A.Story.

There was no snake, no first sentence, it's all just made-up.

How will they find this "conclusive non fairy-based proof", because theyd have to zoom out way more, than focusing on what created the Universe.

Again, you dont have to believe it, to you its a story, to me its more.


And whats your answers that I cant accept.

 

[WAdude]

What do you expect? Giving religion a moral authority is quite a stretch. Obviously the book is man made so God exhibits human behavior. It's sad people still believe in it as truth.

Its man written, which I accept, but to me it was God who told men to write it. So man written, God spoken.

You dont have to believe that, but I believe it.

 

[mpw]

How will they find this "conclusive non fairy-based proof"...

By asking the right questions, by experiment and observation; 3things your beliefs prevent you from doing.

...because theyd have to zoom out way more, than focusing on what created the Universe...

Zoom out where? beyond the actual answer?... you're confusing science with religion, it's religion that ignores the truth and believes there's more to it than that.

...Again, you dont have to believe it, to you its a story, to me its more...

It is just a story, to you it may be more, but it isn't actually more than just a story.

...And whats your answers that I cant accept.

Not sure what you mean by this?

 

[WAdude]

And really, ask yourself, if science is right, then what is my point in life, and what is the point that I tried to make by arguing with other poeple, and why am I here. If you are here because of evolution (which I can accept to a point), then you got here as a tiny, single celled ameoba (or however its spelled), which means there is no point but to evolve more, and die, get recycled into something else. I mean, if you are right, then your just gonna die, and thats the end of the story right, then whats your point in arguing? Not to say that you might belioeve that, but by perfect definition, atheists have no meaning in life, but to evolve.

 

[WAdude]

By asking the right questions, by experiment and observation; 3things your beliefs prevent you from doing.

Zoom out where? beyond the actual answer?... you're confusing science with religion, it's religion that ignores the truth and believes there's more to it than that.


It is just a story, to you it may be more, but it isn't actually more than just a story.


Not sure what you mean by this?

Well, what created our Universe doesnt prove there isnt a god (thats if what created our Universe were two Universes), it just proves that now we have an even bigger task of finding out what created those Universes and so on.

What I mean, is you said that you cant provide proof against God, (that I cant accept), I asked what is the proof I cannot accept?