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why Amazon appstore may take over Android apps
- Thread starter ari-free
- Start date
alostpacket
Over Macho Grande?
I haven't seen anything compelling yet to bother. Developers want to make money, and last I heard Amazon reserved the right to set the price themselves. That instantly puts me into a "wait and see" mode. It could be a boon, it could be a wash, there's no way to tell yet. But I'm not going to jump through hoops when I don't know what's on the other side. I also run the risk of getting blocked since my apps are for sharing music an Amazon is in the business of SELLING music.
Also, not as big of a deal, but Amazon DRM for protecting apps is also less flexible from what I hear. The Market DRM allows the dev to cutomize their app however they want when the customer fails the DRM check. So say the user puts the phone into airplane mode -- with the Android Market, the dev can decide if they want to wait for the next internet connection, or have the app fall back into "trial" mode, or whatever they want. Wheras Amazon's DRM makes it sound like the app just wont be allowed to be run if it fails the DRM check. This may change when they roll it out and my knowledge of Amazon's DRM is a bit light at the moment though.
But still the final conclusion is "wait and see." Amazon is known for bullying book publishers and other distributers and producers of goods on price. So giving them price control seems a dangerous precendent.
alostpacket
Over Macho Grande?
Multiple markets is not fragmentation, that's not what that word means.
Fragmentation has to do with the platform at the OS/hardware level, not choices for marketplaces. You would never call gaming fragmented because there are lots of stores you can buy games from.
Please stop using this word incorrectly. It's an Anti-Android troll word that isnt even true for most of the things they say it is. Let's not play into the trolls and start applying the word to more and more stuff and changing its meaning.
There is nothing at all "fragmented" about competing marketplaces.
alostpacket
Over Macho Grande?
Easy now, don't get all mad -- I wasn't trying to be rude or call you a troll, or judge your fan level -- honestly I couldn't care less. You seem like a nice enough guy. (Edit) Also, my appologies if the previous post was harsh sounding, it was not intended to be.
Still, my point was that you were equating fragmentation and competition. I'm saying that the definition of that word does not fit the context you used it it in, and that you can't equate those things. It's poisoning the well.
When "fragmentation" is used in this context (Android) it does have a specific meaning, and I think we (you and I and everyone) should not expand that and use the word to describe "diversity" or "competition."
alostpacket
Over Macho Grande?
I think you summed it up nicely. There surely are usability issues and I think you nailed some of them. But I think the interesting thing is that with these issues come some benefits too. The competition will push Google to step up its game. Devs will have more choice as to what makes them the most money and who they want to deal with. (btw I am a dev myself) .
And ultimately, the consumer will have choice too. And some users really like/prefer that.
Personally I'm excited that the smartphone (in general) market is so competative. I'm glad Apple and Google and RIM are all neck and neck and cutthroat competing with each other, because the consumers are gonna win from this. I think it's going to be similar to the LCD/plasma TV wars and the video on demand wars over the next few years and all these competitions may even merge.
So I think all this stuff is super exciting. As a dev though, I don't entirely trust Amazon (see my post above), so we'll see how things pan out. I may end up submitting apps to them, I may not.
I'm curious though what markets does your friend go to for wide distrobution? I can only think of like... 2 other markets besides the Google one at the moment. (SlideMe and the Archos one).
ari-free
Android Expert
On one hand I can see the benefit but coming from the old winmo 6.0+ days, it got tiresome to search the net for your cab files from many websites and even then with a few "market" sites those apps were buggy. Having things sourced in one placed makes things easier to get and quicker.
This will confuse your average joesumer when they have to look at varying marketplaces to get something when it's exclusive in only one place and not the other, a la app store and market.
It's nice with the openess but we have to catar to the lowest form (sad to think it that way) to get more people on board the Android train.
This will confuse your average joesumer when they have to look at varying marketplaces to get something when it's exclusive in only one place and not the other, a la app store and market.
It's nice with the openess but we have to catar to the lowest form (sad to think it that way) to get more people on board the Android train.
AngryHatter
Android Expert
Not for me, thanks.
Further there is no impetus for Amazon to incur a huge logistical headache for such a relatively small return.
There is enough trouble for Amazon now that IL wants them to collect sales taxes.
File this under - not going to happen
Further there is no impetus for Amazon to incur a huge logistical headache for such a relatively small return.
There is enough trouble for Amazon now that IL wants them to collect sales taxes.
File this under - not going to happen
Outlaw71
Android Expert
I'm just trying to figure out where people are getting this info that the Market is 'failing'?
Thousands of new apps apear on the Market daily. Android is outselling Apple 2 to 1. And now we're hearing if Android doesn't step up and become more like Apple, then...... what? It's hard to take this argument seriously when Android is showing Apple how it's done, not the other way around.
Flaws in the Market? Sure there are some, Android is just barely 2 years old. There are still plenty of flaws to work out of Android as a whole. But it certainly isn't time to abandon ship. This is like someone writing a letter a year after George Steinbrenner bought the Yankee's detailing all the mistakes he was making, and how his plans and ideas would destroy the organization. 37 years later 'The Boss' has 7 world series and 11 pennents under his belt, more than any other organization during that time. So sure, he wasn't perfect by any means. But he knew what he was doing alright.
I don't see the Amazon market as a sign that the Android market is failing. I see it as Amazon recognizing that there is a juggernaut out there on a roll, and they see an opportunity to make some money of their own. Trust me, they probably would have jumped at the opportunity to do the same thing with the App Store if it wasn't closed off by Apple. And this is the great thing about Android. It isn't closed off. Amazon, Yahoo, hell even Apple (if they had the audacity) could create competing markets if they wanted to, to see if they could take a slice of the pie. It's all good, Google welcomes all of it. Just because Amazon is going for it, and maybe has a few good idea's along the way, doesn't mean ths is the end for Googles market.
At best I see Amazon's market appealing to the segment of Android users who want a little extra security when downloading apps. But by and large I don't think most Android users are all that concerned with the security of the Market. You think a few malware findings are going to send them scattering like cockroaches when the kitchen light is turned on? It sure didn't slow Microsoft down from becoming the biggest software company in the world.
The Market will be aight.
Thousands of new apps apear on the Market daily. Android is outselling Apple 2 to 1. And now we're hearing if Android doesn't step up and become more like Apple, then...... what? It's hard to take this argument seriously when Android is showing Apple how it's done, not the other way around.
Flaws in the Market? Sure there are some, Android is just barely 2 years old. There are still plenty of flaws to work out of Android as a whole. But it certainly isn't time to abandon ship. This is like someone writing a letter a year after George Steinbrenner bought the Yankee's detailing all the mistakes he was making, and how his plans and ideas would destroy the organization. 37 years later 'The Boss' has 7 world series and 11 pennents under his belt, more than any other organization during that time. So sure, he wasn't perfect by any means. But he knew what he was doing alright.
I don't see the Amazon market as a sign that the Android market is failing. I see it as Amazon recognizing that there is a juggernaut out there on a roll, and they see an opportunity to make some money of their own. Trust me, they probably would have jumped at the opportunity to do the same thing with the App Store if it wasn't closed off by Apple. And this is the great thing about Android. It isn't closed off. Amazon, Yahoo, hell even Apple (if they had the audacity) could create competing markets if they wanted to, to see if they could take a slice of the pie. It's all good, Google welcomes all of it. Just because Amazon is going for it, and maybe has a few good idea's along the way, doesn't mean ths is the end for Googles market.
At best I see Amazon's market appealing to the segment of Android users who want a little extra security when downloading apps. But by and large I don't think most Android users are all that concerned with the security of the Market. You think a few malware findings are going to send them scattering like cockroaches when the kitchen light is turned on? It sure didn't slow Microsoft down from becoming the biggest software company in the world.
The Market will be aight.
ari-free
Android Expert
Yes, Android phones are outselling iPhones. But ios developers have been making billions while only $100 million for android developers. This has to change. Why are most gameloft games only available on their own website instead of on a market like they are with every other platform? Why do we have to beg and wait months for last year's hits from the iphone to even consider an Android port? If Amazon can bring in the goods then Android will be much better off.
Outlaw71
Android Expert
Absolutely. You'll get no arguement from me on that point.
I just think that the assumption that the Android Market is in danger of becoming extinct is a little mellow-dramatic. How many different places can you buy software for Windows 7 powered PC's.... Amazon is one of many. That hasn't stopped Microsoft from selling their own stuff.
With hundreds of millions of Android users out there in the world, there is plenty of room for more than one market.
ari-free
Android Expert
As long as Android Market holds the largest amount of apps, and as long as it is functional (for example I like the remote install feature), I'll go there for my apps needs.
One Angry Bird is not enough to make me change my favorite website...
Angry Birds is only one app but it happens to be the most addicting game on the planet right now so it is a big win for Amazon. We can go on and on about how bad malware is or DRM but the bottom line for a lot of people is how to get Angry Birds with no ads. That could get the whole game started.
As an app developer nothing is free. I know that people love free apps but at what price. Even if you get an app for free the developer is giving away private info for money. Additionally, most free apps are only free to download before they hit you with a huge price.
I wish that the android community would not automatically shoot down good paid apps because they are not free
I wish that the android community would not automatically shoot down good paid apps because they are not free
ari-free
Android Expert
Developers express concern over pirated games on Android Market | Technology | guardian.co.uk
Listen to the developers, Google.
Listen to the developers, Google.
Completely different marketing method on the two platforms. Apple is shooting for pay once, use it. Android is shooting for pay never, generate ad streams.
Which is why ad-supported software was supported from the get-go with Android. Google makes money on ad revenue, and expected developers to go with the same model, while not excluding the pay once-then use model.
D
Deleted User
Guest
Sadly, I see Amazon Appstore coming out ahead of Android Market mainly because I believe most devs feel they can make more money via Amazon Appstore then Android Market. In fact if I am not mistaking their are already some games/apps in the Android appstore that aren't in the Android Market at all
Now I know this would mean that I would have to give up on my little app making thing til I get better at it, but I believe that Google should do a basic screening of apps that come into the market; as well as maybe changing the money thing so more devs will be willing to make more apps for the android market.
Now I know this would mean that I would have to give up on my little app making thing til I get better at it, but I believe that Google should do a basic screening of apps that come into the market; as well as maybe changing the money thing so more devs will be willing to make more apps for the android market.
ari-free
Android Expert
But who wants to deal with ads, especially on the small screen of a phone? They just get in the way of the game and a lot of people would rather just pay a buck and have the real game.
Freemium is a better model for games but doesn't work for many games and neither ads nor freemium work for other kinds of apps.
ari-free
Android Expert
A problem I am seeing with Amazon is that it will take some time for the appstore to be approved for other countries. It took google a long time to get paid apps for many countries but since they made money from the free apps, they had no problem allowing free apps for those countries and google made money from international users during the wait.
Amazon gets $0 from free apps so there won't be anything there for those countries until they can also offer paid apps.
They also didn't help by advertising in UK and sending emails to all these people around the world about the new store even though the launch was only for the US.
Vanquished
Android Expert
I agree that having to check multiple markets can get annoying. Since Steam has become such a large PC game vender I have become very fond of it. I don't have to worry about CD/DVD's not working because they get scratched and all of my games are in one place.
With my phone, any app I want to purchase I will probably get it off of the Android Market for the same reason. BUT, I will also keep the Amazon Market as well for the free apps they offer.
Quite a few, apparently. I mean, they're obviously not opting for the paid, ad-free version or else the Market would be generating more revenue, right? Be careful assuming trends based on your own preferences.
Vanquished
Android Expert
Yes, definitely one thing Google should improve.
The other thing is allow a few different refund periods, at the choice of the dev. It would be a great improvement if they allowed even 2 choices, 15 min or 48 hours, and the dev can choose when they upload an app. I would say 3 choices of 15 min, 48 hours, and 1 week would be great. Probably will never happen, but I can dream!
48 hours is too much. The 24 hour period was perfect. It was really stupid to cut it down to 15 minutes though. The minimum refund time should be one hour, IMO. That gives you time to download the app and play around with it a little.
30 minutes seems like it would be alright too. The idea with the refund policy is to make sure it is something that you would actually like and something that actually works, right? The problem with the current policy is that you don't have time to even download it. What they need to do is make several different policies depending on the type of app or the size of the app.
Many games, for example, should have at least a 30 minute, if not one hour policy due to that factor.