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Worlds Oceans In Dire Trouble

Dark Jedi said:
Still its different when its a little every day over a year compared to a whole years worth in a matter of hours or days.

a drop of bleach in a gallon of water wont harm you, but a cup of bleach in a gallon of water and you wont be feeling the best.
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depends
leave that gallon sit for a week in the sun and it will most likely be find
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
Nothing in those clippings provides concrete evidence of that claim. We're tinkering with nature more in our attempts to preserve endangered species. Species need to be able to naturally die off.
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The problem with that is the trickle up effect it has on the rest of the food chain. Let's say all tuna go extinct tomorrow. Suddenly, mankind has to look at other fish for food. Other predators have to look at other fish as well. Those species become pressured and eventually go extinct. Then the predators go extinct. This is where humanity is heading. The earth can only support X number of people and we apparently have no interest in expanding to other planets.

Look at what happened to the dinosaurs. Asteroid hits. Dust cloud kills plant life. Herbivores go extinct. Carnivores turn on each other, then they go extinct as well.
 
mdram said:
depends
leave that gallon sit for a week in the sun and it will most likely be find
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But ocean life dont have time to wait for the oil to dissipate. I guess I should of used a fish tank for the bleach scenario. Point is oil has been seeping out of the earths crust for many many years. Its harmfulness is very minor and wildlife dont even know its really there. Same cant be said when an oil tanker or oil rig has a spill that can be seen from space.

I have a serious question. Has there ever been a natural massive spill that man had no part of?
 
A.Nonymous said:
The problem with that is the trickle up effect it has on the rest of the food chain. Let's say all tuna go extinct tomorrow. Suddenly, mankind has to look at other fish for food. Other predators have to look at other fish as well. Those species become pressured and eventually go extinct. Then the predators go extinct. This is where humanity is heading. The earth can only support X number of people and we apparently have no interest in expanding to other planets.

Look at what happened to the dinosaurs. Asteroid hits. Dust cloud kills plant life. Herbivores go extinct. Carnivores turn on each other, then they go extinct as well.
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Or what about animals that are dependant on each other. like to procreate. I saw this I think on the crocodile hunter where this person found out this one beetle will only mate in the rectum of a hippo. So if the hippos become extinct. then that one beetle will become extinct to. Its amazing how many animals are linked to one another for their survival.
 
Dark Jedi said:
Or what about animals that are dependant on each other. like to procreate. I saw this I think on the crocodile hunter where this person found out this one beetle will only mate in the rectum of a hippo. So if the hippos become extinct. then that one beetle will become extinct to. Its amazing how many animals are linked to one another for their survival.
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To me any animal that finds a hippos ass to be a sexy turn on deserves extinction. Just saying. We don't need none of that 'round here.
 
mdram said:
Scientists Find That Tons Of Oil Seep Into The Gulf Of Mexico Each Year
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This research was done FOR the oil companies.

"These are the same people who denied for years and years that cigarettes cause cancer and all the scientists were crazy fear-mongers. (except for the scientists on the tobacco company payrolls who said cigs were safe- those guys knew what they were talking about). Same thing. -"all of the scientists don't agree about global warming- we have these scientists over here that work for the oil companies that say it's a crock." Whatever. "Drill, baby, drill", and make fun of Al Gore for being right. It's a waste of time to argue about it. Rush Limbaugh told me so."
 
Are we really having people arguing that humans are not having a catastrophic effect on ocean ecosystems all over the world? It's been pretty well documented over many years how our excessive removal of key species from entire ocean ecosystems is leading toward collapse of the food chain in some areas. industrial accident as such as oil spills matter but they are tiny when compared to the size of the oceans. a Much larger effect is being made by our cities which are built either on the ocean or on waterways that dump into the ocean. our cities and human activity on land pumps billions of tons of pollutants directly into the ocean, all over the world. It is no accident that many of the world's major rivers have gigantic dead zones for hundreds of square miles where they meet the sea. Add to that global climatic change, which is adding massive amounts of fresh water into the ecosystem every year, and yes, you have a very large environmental change in a relatively short period of time. And yes it is mainly being caused by human activity. The thing is that the issue here extends far beyond species collapse. the oceans are a major heat sink and are much of what makes ths planet habitable. they are also the world's main producer of gases which make up our atmosphere. if we collapse them, we die too.

Surely they are far more resillient than we might think, as is probably most life in this planet. The issue is not really whether we are killing the planet, but rather whether we are altering it in such a way that it might no longer support human life in a manner we have traditionally bee used to (or at all - eventually).

If the world can survive and recover from massive asteroid impacts, it can surely survive brainy apes, the changes that come about just might not be to our liking or benefit.

I bet the roaches won't mind though.
 
i can agree that urban runoff is a major issue
oil spills, not as much as people claim, but some

climate change, i really dont agree with that. i consider that a cyclical thing that the earth just goes through, when global warming was not working they changed the name to climate change

over harvest is perhaps the largest issue imho
 
A.Nonymous said:
The problem with that is the trickle up effect it has on the rest of the food chain. Let's say all tuna go extinct tomorrow. Suddenly, mankind has to look at other fish for food. Other predators have to look at other fish as well. Those species become pressured and eventually go extinct. Then the predators go extinct. This is where humanity is heading. The earth can only support X number of people and we apparently have no interest in expanding to other planets.

Look at what happened to the dinosaurs. Asteroid hits. Dust cloud kills plant life. Herbivores go extinct. Carnivores turn on each other, then they go extinct as well.
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Even the human race will become extinct eventually. This is the natural order of things.
 
shadowninty said:
Food isnt the problem.. at least for the developed world. Its resources, and perhaps in a few thousand years, a place to live
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I think the problem of food and the third world is not a lack of food or money or resources. It is corrupt leaders that simply do not care about their people.

I am not sure we will become extinct. Many species do, but they lack the ability to drastically change their environment. We do and it is our intelligence that will likely save us.

These environmental issues we passionately debate are a problem these days. If scientists prove that the ocean is not in as much trouble as the expert non-scientists tell us, their information will never see the light of day, if left is not on board. We know this from the silly Global Warming panic and reasonable thinking and legitimate proof never sees the light of day.

I think laws to protect resources and the environment are important, but only if there is demonstrable proof we have a problem. The ocean(s) are huge and vast and we do not know how much we can dump into the deep blue briny.

I once peed in the sea so I guess I am part of the problem.

Bob
 
Would it help if we eliminated all the whales, dolphins and tuna from the seas? I believe the Japanese would be more than willing to finish the job.
I won't believe there is officially an ocean problem until Al Gore says there is.
 
shadowninty said:
Food isnt the problem.. at least for the developed world.
Its resources, and perhaps in a few thousand years, a place to live
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That is one of the biggest problems. The people in the developed world consume at a rate that's a lot higher than than those in 3rd world countries. I think I read recently that poverty level Americans consume like 60-70% more clean water than those in developing countries.
 
Dark Jedi said:
Let's see man killed off all the buffalo's in north America.
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All of the buffalo? What about the half million or so buffalo still alive?

The American Bison Society - Wildlife Conservation Society
American bison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yes I realize that the majority of these bison are raised in captivity for meat and hides but it's still a growing population. No where near the 10's of millions of bison that roamed the ranges in the 1800's but not too shabby considering the alternative.
 
Martimus said:
All of the buffalo? What about the half million or so buffalo still alive?

The American Bison Society - Wildlife Conservation Society
American bison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yes I realize that the majority of these bison are raised in captivity for meat and hides but it's still a growing population. No where near the 10's of millions of bison that roamed the ranges in the 1800's but not too shabby considering the alternative.
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I staned corrected but the nubers of pure bison numbers between 10,000 to 15,000. Most of the bison are hybrids of crossing bison with cattle. So really their numbers are still very low.

This taken fron Wikipedia
Though approximately 500,000 bison exist on private ranches and in public herds, some people estimate that perhaps only 15,000 to 25,000 of these bison are pure and are not actually bison-cattle hybrids. "DNA from domestic cattle (Bos taurus) has been detected in nearly all bison herds examined to date." [58] Significant public bison herds that do not appear to have hybridized domestic cattle genes are the Yellowstone Park Bison Herd, the Henry Mountains Bison Herd which was started with bison taken from Yellowstone Park, the Wind Cave Bison Herd and the Wood Buffalo National Park Bison Herd and subsidiary herds started from it, in Canada
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I thought all bison today was a hybrid of cattle mixed.
 
A.Nonymous said:
That is one of the biggest problems. The people in the developed world consume at a rate that's a lot higher than than those in 3rd world countries. I think I read recently that poverty level Americans consume like 60-70% more clean water than those in developing countries.
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I came across a pictogram [:)] that showed the contrast between the developed world and developing. We can outbuy them, and thus will be safer for a much longer period of time. Oh and I love the attitude of blame the developed world. lol
 
Dark Jedi said:
a drop of bleach in a gallon of water wont harm you, but a cup of bleach in a gallon of water and you wont be feeling the best.
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Bad analogy, I should think. We do not know how much crap the sea can take, so we do not know what damage we are causing. We certainly have not filled the sea with as much crap as your "cup of bleach in a gallon of water" suggests.

Perhaps we have added, based by volume, and remembering that my math is terrible, perhaps .0000000034% trash to sea water.

Hell, apparently, scientists can't even decide what 1+2(2x3) equals (or whatever the equation in that infamous AF thread was), so I am sure the scientists can't begin to figure out how much is too much.
 
Bob Maxey said:
Bad analogy, I should think. We do not know how much crap the sea can take, so we do not know what damage we are causing. We certainly have not filled the sea with as much crap as your "cup of bleach in a gallon of water" suggests.

Perhaps we have added, based by volume, and remembering that my math is terrible, perhaps .0000000034% trash to sea water.

Hell, apparently, scientists can't even decide what 1+2(2x3) equals (or whatever the equation in that infamous AF thread was), so I am sure the scientists can't begin to figure out how much is too much.
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WHat I was getting at was the other guy said oil leak out naturally and said over a years time twice as much oil was released than the exxon tanker spill. So I said well a little leak wont have much of an effect on the ecosystem when compared to a whole taker spilling its load in a few hours to a day. So why I said a drop of bleach in a gallon of water wont hurt ya. But a cup in a gallon would. I was showing a lot in a little amount of time is more harmful than a little over a long period.
 
Dark Jedi said:
WHat I was getting at was the other guy said oil leak out naturally and said over a years time twice as much oil was released than the exxon tanker spill. So I said well a little leak wont have much of an effect on the ecosystem when compared to a whole taker spilling its load in a few hours to a day. So why I said a drop of bleach in a gallon of water wont hurt ya. But a cup in a gallon would. I was showing a lot in a little amount of time is more harmful than a little over a long period.
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but your cup in da bucket would get the whole thing
a spill is a localized event that lessens the further you get from it
the seepage is spread out event.
i was just saying that there is already a ton of oil going into the water
and the spill has a minimal overall affect on the entire ocean
 
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