Would you ever own a mac?

[EarlyMon]

I am a programmer.

So you would use time writing lines of code,
then compile it on a operating system whose binaries are not compatible with windows?

I think you fail to realize the headache of debugging on a system only to find out your flawless code may not be easily compiled in windows.

Or the heartache of piss poor sales by not compiling for most the world.

I'm a programmer.

Much code written with GCC can be handled with a standard set of ifdef clauses in a few header files and be compiled for OS X, Windows (using MS Studio instead) and Linux.

And you get to do it on one platform running two virtual environments.

With proper coding disciplines, it's more efficient and far more effective because you can take advantage of single point maintenence.

Use Python/Tk for your UI layer and you have less to do supporting divergent window managers.

And less heartache because when an order says, may I buy a site license for platform X, the answer is yes.

Having done this for over a decade, I am quite certain that that model works really well.

If you want to cater to a closed platform and be at the whims of any .Net changes along with a bloated installer supporting legacy versions of that nonsense, you can follow that model instead.

And the day when you can't get there from here following Microsoft's so-called standards, you can look at this post for an alternative approach.

One of my competitors went out of business following the .Net/pure Microsoft approach. Their headache was large indeed.

 

[mikedt]

I am a programmer.

So you would use time writing lines of code,
then compile it on a operating system whose binaries are not compatible with windows?

I think you fail to realize the headache of debugging on a system only to find out your flawless code may not be easily compiled in windows.

Or the heartache of piss poor sales by not compiling for most the world.

That might have been so in the past, but AFAICT that's changing very rapidly. If "most the world" is anything like what I've seen, China and the UK, sure more people are now buying tablets and smart phones, over traditional desktop PCs and laptops. And most of those are running Android and iOS, and NOT a Microsoft OS. Windows 8(Pro, RT and Phone) sales seem to be very low, especially here in China.

So I'm thinking now if you're not programming for Android or iOS(Mac required), could get left behind?

 

[7Priest7]

If you want to cater to a closed platform and be at the whims of any .Net changes along with a bloated installer supporting legacy versions of that nonsense, you can follow that model instead.

And the day when you can't get there from here following Microsoft's so-called standards, you can look at this post for an alternative approach.

Back when I was actively developing apps I used a open source c++ compiler.

That withstanding, The triggering poster indicated "if he was a programmer" from what I've seen at college most new programmers find .net much easier than downloading headers/using ms-dos/etc.

In general most university's/colleges who teach programming/I.T. use windows so his early experiences would probably be with .net.
With a lot of them you are required to provide your own laptop, for a young college student a $1k+ laptop could be very hard.

That might have been so in the past, but AFAICT that's changing very rapidly. If "most the world" is anything like what I've seen, China and the UK, sure more people are now buying tablets and smart phones, over traditional desktop PCs and laptops. And most of those are running Android and iOS, and NOT a Microsoft OS. Windows 8 sales seem to be very low, especially here in China.

So I'm thinking now if you're not programming for Android or iOS(Mac required), could get left behind?

Yes and no.
Most people own a phone and a computer.
Most the money nowadays is in pay2win MMO's.
Hardcore Gamers prefer computers over phones.
Phones are great for casual gamers though.

 

[EarlyMon]

Easier isn't always better.

Before Linux and before Berkeley turned the lights off there was one BSD and universities embraced it. The outcome was the internet and all of the major trimmings that people take for granted today. Including the first working TCP/IP stack in Windows.

And a generation of software engineers that could think.

I don't fault the students but anything above coder classes offered at the uni level would be better serving to students by focusing on proper standards and first principles. Focusing on .Net and allowing it is a focus on entry job training and not a career. And it's one that you'll never be able to compete in against overseas programmers.

And students wouldn't need to buy student licenses or quietly pirate build tools. In that regard, using GCC, the best things in life are free, including Cygwin on Windows for those not ready to embrace Linux.

PS - in my post, no downloads of headers were involved. Never learn the tricks of the trade. Learn the trade.

 

[7Priest7]

I don't fault the students but anything above coder classes offered at the uni level would be better serving to students by focusing on proper standards and first principles. Focusing on .Net and allowing it is a focus on entry job training and not a career. And it's one that you'll never be able to compete in against overseas programmers.

PS - in my post, no downloads of headers were involved. Never learn the tricks of the trade. Learn the trade.

In fairness, Programming is a independent process.
Anybody requiring a college/university for it in the first place is not very capable of independent thought.
Most university's do focus primarily on training for U.S. based careers not freelancing.

It is possible programming changed since I was active.
However when I was actively programming you had to download the headers(Or reinvent the wheel and create your own) to do much with c++.

 

[mikedt]

Yes and no.
Most people own a phone and a computer.

Sure depends what country you're in(USA?). See where I am, most people do not own PCs, because they're expensive. The teachers where I work own laptops, but only because the school heavily subsidized them. However many people are now able to buy low cost-Android tablets and smart phones. And most tablets and smart phones don't run a Microsoft OS. My father in the UK owned PCs for years, not now, he uses a Samsung Tab for everything.

Most the money nowadays is in pay2win MMO's.
Hardcore Gamers prefer computers over phones.
Phones are great for casual gamers though.

That's true. However where I am most of the hard core gamers(students) spend their time in filthy tobacco smoke filled internet bars.. playing on a tablet might have it's appeals. They're certainly not playing at home...unless they have rich parents.....and there's no Xbox 360s here either. I use a PC myself and a Mac, but the PC is not running Windows. Even Windows(usually pirated) on PCs in China is now facing a serious challenge from Kylin, and this is backed by a government initiative, in partnership with Canonical.

 

[willyuiop]

Would i ever own a Mac?

Probably not. But I would find it a Little okay for only some features, Such as the speed, design, Mac only apps, and bragging rights

 

[7Priest7]

Sure depends what country you're in(USA?). See where I am, most people do not own PCs, because they're expensive. The teachers where I work own laptops, but only because the school heavily subsidized them. However many people are now able to buy low cost-Android tablets and smart phones. And most tablets and smart phones don't run a Microsoft OS. My father in the UK owned PCs for years, not now, he uses a Samsung Tab for everything.

You make my point more than you think.
Programming is a profession, and sometimes a hobby.
Programmers looking to make money will likely avoid developing apps for your country.

That's true. However where I am most of the hard core gamers(students) spend their time in filthy tobacco smoke filled internet bars.. playing on a tablet might have it's appeals. They're certainly not playing at home...unless they have rich parents. I use a PC myself and a Mac, but the PC is not running Windows. Even Windows on PCs in China is now facing a serious challenge from Kylin, and this is backed by a government initiative, in partnership with Canonical.

You're posts make me feel strongly anti-canonical/ubuntu.
I always preferred Debian, but it is obvious canonical has become a awful force in your country.

 

[mikedt]

You make my point more than you think.
Programming is a profession, and sometimes a hobby.
Programmers looking to make money will likely avoid developing apps for your country.




You're posts make me feel strongly anti-canonical/ubuntu.
I always preferred Debian, but it is obvious canonical has become a awful force in your country.

Microsoft is an awful force in this country as well. They seem to give the communist government every co-operation possible with their software products, for back-doors, monitoring and censoring. That's why we have special PRC versions of Skype, Windows 8 and Office for Windows, and MS goes out of their way to make it difficult to use anything else here.

Perhaps you should be strongly anti-Micro$oft as well?

Not sure if Apple gives co-operation to Beijing or not. However there's only one version of Mac OS and iOS...and NO China versions...and no product activation nonsense. Google doesn't give any co-operation at all, or only very reluctantly. That's why the Androids here don't have Google services on them.

 

[7Priest7]

Perhaps you should be strongly anti-Micro$oft as well?

I am anti-Microsoft.
I don't care for their practices.

But I am a gamer, I use Windoze as new games are rarely compiled for Linux and nowadays using Wine is impossible/detected as hacks.

 

[mikedt]

I am anti-Microsoft.
I don't care for their practices.

They really are an evil empire. The time has come for a change IMO, and I see the writing is on the wall for them.

 

[kb0sdq]

No I sure would not own a mac. Plus I noticed that most folks that do have a mac load a bunch of windows programs on it does not make sense to me. Kinda like folks that have an android phone and put a windows styled rom or theme on it.
Anyhow,

 

[IOWA]

I am anti-Microsoft.
I don't care for their practices.

But I am a gamer, I use Windoze as new games are rarely compiled for Linux and nowadays using Wine is impossible/detected as hacks.

One of the reasons I'm hoping the Steam branch for Linux really takes off.

 

[7Priest7]

One of the reasons I'm hoping the Steam branch for Linux really takes off.

I am anti-steam too.
Steam is bloatware and adware.

 

[mikedt]

Although I've never used it, and I don't tend to play much computer games these days. I actually like the idea of Steam, because they don't impose geographical restrictions or United States only nonsense, unlike EA or Amazon etc. We've got plenty of sites here offering "free" games downloads, but I'd rather not go down that particular avenue.

 

[sfbloodbrother]

I am a programmer.

So you would use time writing lines of code,
then compile it on a operating system whose binaries are not compatible with windows?

I think you fail to realize the headache of debugging on a system only to find out your flawless code may not be easily compiled in windows.

Or the heartache of piss poor sales by not compiling for most the world.

No, no, I meant like if I wanted to code things like iOS and android Apps. If I wanted to write Windows apps, I would use a windows machine, or just use a virtual machine with a mac.

Everybody at Google uses a mac to write android apps. Always see them using one when I watch a video provided by Google. Google I/O, always see them using them.

 

[sfbloodbrother]

They really are an evil empire. The time has come for a change IMO, and I see the writing is on the wall for them.

They are evil!! They give backdoor access to the NSA for all our information, even when they make commercials bashing Google for sharing information about the play store.

 

[bubkusjones]

I am anti-steam too.
Steam is bloatware and adware.

Well, you're one of the only people I've come across that isn't a fan. Steam is generally used as an example of DRM done right. Tyre only ads I see are for other games and only if I'm looking at their store front or just exited a game.

 

[fixitevilson]

By personal experience, I would go with a Mac. I only have used a Mac one time though, at school. If I had the money and could afford a Mac, I would definitely get one. As of right now, With my money situation, I am limited to my laptop running Ubuntu

 

[sfbloodbrother]

By personal experience, I would go with a Mac. I only have used a Mac one time though, at school. If I had the money and could afford a Mac, I would definitely get one. As of right now, With my money situation, I am limited to my laptop running Ubuntu

I remember when my school used macs. Well, they sucked, and I wrote an article about it a long time ago.

SF Industries | My Experience With Apple

 

[mikedt]

I remember when my school used macs. Well, they sucked, and I wrote an article about it a long time ago.

SF Industries | My Experience With Apple

My school uses Windows PCs, and they suck big time...it's not good*. So much so, I just refuse to use them. Even the Great Wall that's sat on my office desk, unless I boot it into Linux from a USB. I use my own laptop here, or even just the blackboard and chalk, as I just do not trust the school Windows PCs.

"China Great Wall Computer Shenzhen Co., Ltd."

* using Windows in China is never good anyway.

 

[sfbloodbrother]

My school uses Windows PCs, and they suck big time...it's not good*. So much so, I just refuse to use them. Even the Great Wall that's sat on my office desk, unless I boot it into Linux from a USB. I use my own laptop here, or even just the blackboard and chalk, as I just do not trust the school Windows PCs.

"China Great Wall Computer Shenzhen Co., Ltd."

* using Windows in China is never good anyway.

My high school uses windows xp and they are really slow compared to computers today. I agree, the operating systems back then kinda sucked. Windows computers now are good, but I would rather have schools use Linux for freedom.

 

[lunatic59]

I have owned a mac. Granted it was years ago, but I was not impressed. Nor was it vastly superior, only marginally better at certain things.

I use Windows because I have to, Linux, because I want to.

 

[ajdroidx]

Yes. Typing on a 15" MBP right now. Also updated the hard drive to a 256gb SSD and upgraded the ram to 8gb. I don't think I could go back to windows. The little windows 8 touchscreen I bought earlier this year, I disabled secure boot on and load up linux on.

The MBP is a fantastic machine, or at leas has been for me. The issues arise from codecs on some video equipment, where I had to use a windows machine to get stuff off of it, in that case, I use my sisters.

I grew tired of powering the thing on and waiting for updates, waiting for bloatware (on my sisters PC anyway since I usually built my own) and most of all, driver issues.

Now, I must admit, there are snags that I have hit here and there, mostly with android hacking (only some devices can be messed with), as I said, videos from my canon camcorder which shoots in AVCHD format. I can play the videos but can't pull them out of the camera. It may work better if I had a real program to deal with the video, but I don't shoot enough to invest in final cut pro X.

All in all, I am glad I switched to a mac. I have thought about getting a mini since I have a 27" HD monitor collecting dust since my windows desktop broke.

Speaking of which, I have a windows 8 64bit pro builder edition, not even opened. I got just shortly after release. I am thinking perhaps I should sell it off.

Someone mentioned updates and paying for said updates. Well, it cost me 20 bucks to upgrade to mountain lion on my mac. I believe it cost over 100 bucks to upgrade from windows XP to windows 7, then there is the umpteen options you have. Pro, home, student, bedroom, living room... okay, you get the point.

Using iOS, however, is, irksome to be honest. I mean, I can (and do) use it (iPad mini) because it can do some stuff android can't, like I can load videos off my RX100 camera's card to the device and upload them to youtube on the fly...

 

[mikedt]

Yes. Typing on a 15" MBP right now. Also updated the hard drive to a 256gb SSD and upgraded the ram to 8gb. I don't think I could go back to windows. The little windows 8 touchscreen I bought earlier this year, I disabled secure boot on and load up linux on.

The MBP is a fantastic machine, or at leas has been for me. The issues arise from codecs on some video equipment, where I had to use a windows machine to get stuff off of it, in that case, I use my sisters.

VLC or Handbrake, both available for Mac(and Linux). No need for the Windoze machine.