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WTC 11/9/2001 - conspiracy or not?

Tempusfugit said:
lol. This is my problem with the popular mechanics article and every attempt to debunk. You take ONE claim, and debunk that ONE, and it automatically debunks everything.. More than one person claimed to have seen molten steel, AND there are pictures.

And when that doesn't work, use plan 2, blame it on Rosie.. Ya I've heard it all before Bob... Have a good one...

You still didn't answer, when does warm water freeze faster?
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Look up the Mpemba effect.

And more than one person "claimed" to have seen molten metal? Huh? Claimed to have seen it is not proof. As for the pictures, links please.

Bob
 
Bob Maxey said:
Look up the Mpemba effect.

And more than one person "claimed" to have seen molten metal? Huh? Claimed to have seen it is not proof. As for the pictures, links please.

Bob
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Nice, now we can go in circles, you post something debunking 9/11, I'll post something debunking mpemba, we'll both argue, great fun.

They've only claimed to have seen this freezing, I need pictures of the mpemba too.
 
Tempusfugit said:
Nice, now we can go in circles, you post something debunking 9/11, I'll post something debunking mpemba, we'll both argue, great fun.

They've only claimed to have seen this freezing, I need pictures of the mpemba too.
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Look it up, you are liklely not helpless. Lots of science resources on the web and it is a matter on physics well understood, proven, and that's that.

Yup, round and round we go.
 
Bob Maxey said:
Look it up, you are liklely not helpless. Lots of science resources on the web and it is a matter on physics well understood, proven, and that's that.
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lol... unsubscribed. My physics professor and logic outweigh your highly "discussed" wiki article.
 
Tempusfugit said:
lol... unsubscribed. My physics professor and logic outweigh your highly "discussed" wiki article.
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Sorry to see you go. I hate the hot water, too. By the way, you do realize that Wikepedia is not really a college and Mr. Google is not really a college professor, right.

Bob
 
I always lol when people try to use Loose Change to defend any 9/11 conspiracy theory. Every single claim in that movie has been completely and thoroughly debunked. The Popular Science article (and ensuing book as well btw) cite authorities in the field over and over again, but that's not credible. Some non-expert talks about how he thinks the physical world works and we should believe him because he's not an expert. Brilliant logic I say.
 
Tempusfugit said:
It is on topic, people irrationally distrust Iranians because they're from the middle east, and because of 9/11, every country in the middle east is labeled as extremist jihadist terrorists.
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I suspect much of the distrust for Iranians is due to the antics of the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini back in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

Iran hostage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The majority of the hijackers from 9/11 were Saudi Arabian and not Iranian. Osama bin Laden is also Saudi Arabian.
 
The only conspiracy here is a conspiracy of incompetence. The attack was preventable but competition (rather than co-operation) between different agencies meant that the different warning signs were never connected.
 
Tempusfugit said:
Buildings don't fall into their footprint from damage half way up. The controlled demolition business would be a lot easier if this were the case.

Oh, and if the "cretins" want to get us, there are much easier ways than building and launching a nuke..
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Keep giving Alex Jones and similar nuts your $$$, their laughing all the way to the bank.


Doesn't it sound silly, "I've uncovered evidence of a deep government conspiracy to kill thousands of its own citizens, and I'll sell it to you on DVDs and T-shirts for $19.95"

When Pentagon papers came out, they didn't sell VHS copies and T-shirts about it did they?
 
cipher6 said:
Keep giving Alex Jones and similar nuts your $$$, their laughing all the way to the bank.
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Odd that people desperate for information, are often scared and filled with hate toward our government, so they find people like Jones to support their unfounded and baseless ideas that the U.S. of A. is evil.

So they give these promoters good money, not understanding that Alex Jones likely does not care about anything but the money he gets making you more unhappy, and more scared and more likely to purchase more BS.

Bob
 
Ok before u go and make a fool of yourself, i was there, i saw the Pentagon hit by the plane...along with many many hundreds stuck in a traffic jam next to the Pentagon. The huge ass plane was so freakin low most of us thought it was going to hit the highway first...as it was it did take out some street signs and light poles, that how low it was...it kills me how people who were not even there can come up with wild fantasies about what happened, and actually argue with people who were there. This was the most filmed and "seen live" attack/disaster ever yet people still think it was controlled demolition, inside job, etc etc...look it's a free country believe what you want but ya may just get tossed into a looney bin. You give our Government way too much credit, really you do, and those who run it. For the love of God, tell me one thing the government has been involved in that has actually worked and worked well? Amtrak? Postal Service? Va? Staying out of debt? Fannie Mae? Freddie mac?

OMG the silent black helicopters just landed in my yard ,wait a minute, the Men in Black are knocking at my door..I divulged too much information, we who were all stuck in traffic and saw the plane were told never to speak of this or else! They are comeing for me!!! tell the world my story....It must be told ...OMG
 
bbrosen said:
Ok before u go and make a fool of yourself, i was there, i saw the Pentagon hit by the plane...along with many many hundreds stuck in a traffic jam next to the Pentagon. The huge ass plane was so freakin low most of us thought it was going to hit the highway first...as it was it did take out some street signs and light poles, that how low it was...it kills me how people who were not even there can come up with wild fantasies about what happened, and actually argue with people who were there. This was the most filmed and "seen live" attack/disaster ever yet people still think it was controlled demolition, inside job, etc etc...look it's a free country believe what you want but ya may just get tossed into a looney bin. You give our Government way too much credit, really you do, and those who run it. For the love of God, tell me one thing the government has been involved in that has actually worked and worked well? Amtrak? Postal Service? Va? Staying out of debt? Fannie Mae? Freddie mac?

OMG the silent black helicopters just landed in my yard ,wait a minute, the Men in Black are knocking at my door..I divulged too much information, we who were all stuck in traffic and saw the plane were told never to speak of this or else! They are comeing for me!!! tell the world my story....It must be told ...OMG
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Are you kidding? The Senate Dining Room makes an amazing Peach Cobbler. They do that up right, I'll tell you what. So they do indeed do some things right.

Relax, all the MIB want is for you to help them set up a Google account on their new HTC iPhone. And just look into the little red flashy light thingy.

Seriously, did you not know that the eye witnesses and the cameras that filled the events of that day are controlled by the Intergalactic Masonic Order?

Tom Hanks will make a movie about it.

Bob
 
bbrosen said:
Ok before u go and make a fool of yourself, i was there, i saw the Pentagon hit by the plane...along with many many hundreds stuck in a traffic jam next to the Pentagon. The huge ass plane was so freakin low most of us thought it was going to hit the highway first...as it was it did take out some street signs and light poles, that how low it was...it kills me how people who were not even there can come up with wild fantasies about what happened, and actually argue with people who were there. This was the most filmed and "seen live" attack/disaster ever yet people still think it was controlled demolition, inside job, etc etc...look it's a free country believe what you want but ya may just get tossed into a looney bin. You give our Government way too much credit, really you do, and those who run it. For the love of God, tell me one thing the government has been involved in that has actually worked and worked well? Amtrak? Postal Service? Va? Staying out of debt? Fannie Mae? Freddie mac?

OMG the silent black helicopters just landed in my yard ,wait a minute, the Men in Black are knocking at my door..I divulged too much information, we who were all stuck in traffic and saw the plane were told never to speak of this or else! They are comeing for me!!! tell the world my story....It must be told ...OMG
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the MiB told you a plane hit the pentagon after they
91_1_b.jpg
 
Tempusfugit said:
Buildings don't fall into their footprint from damage half way up. The controlled demolition business would be a lot easier if this were the case.

Oh, and if the "cretins" want to get us, there are much easier ways than building and launching a nuke..
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Especially, if every building was built to do that, like the WTC Towers... wouldn't that be awesome?

Tempusfugit said:
Maybe

Then you know to have a building fall into its footprint, the support columns(47 of them? been a while) need to be drilled, wrapped in primacord, filled with c4, etc, and even then buildings with 1/100th the structural integrity still don't fall right every time after months of planning and wiring explosives.
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The way the WTC towers were designed, if one load bearing column failed, then the others would support that weight. It was designed to prevent them from ALL failing, but if that started, they would ALL fail at once. Per the architect.

But the architect isn't an authority on how it was designed... I understand.

Tempusfugit said:
Or here. The bottom 30 floors were holding themselves just fine, plus all the weight above, why would the top go through them, instead of tipping over? The initial crash left over half the structural columns intact top to bottom, and those too, magically fell into themselves.
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The top pancaked... The weight of the top, plus the force of the top colliding with the bottom is what caused the bottom to pancake.

shadowninty said:
the combination of the way the towers were built, planning regulations (buildings MUST pankcake, not topple..) and the roaring fire was of high enough temperature to weaken supports, would be a decent explanation
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Decent explanations aren't enough... people that they've never checked the credentials on are all that's needed to believe crazy stuff. I remember having a conversation about UFO's and how a group built an exact replica of a 1000 year old artifact that flew...

Then I asked, if there was any verification that the artifact was indeed 1000 years old. I also asked if there was any verification that the model was "EXACTLY" to scale, and that was the end of rational conversation...

There doesn't need to be credible proof of something that someone WANTS to believe, just enough that they can convince themselves that they aren't crazy.

Tempusfugit said:
You mean the way it was built with airliner strikes in mind? Oh ya.
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Nope, it was built with a controlled fall in mind.

Tempusfugit said:
Well its weird that even after weakening columns and planting explosives in every support and load bearing wall, on much more squat buildings(footprint/height) for controlled demotion, they still topple occasionally.
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Yep, a difference in the way they were designed.

Tempusfugit said:
A roaring fire can weaken steel, yes(doesn't explain the molten steel found at ground zero, that's another story though). Play it through in your head. Less than half were "weakened" on one side over half way up. How does that pancake and not topple?
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We've had no reports of melted steel found at ground zero...


Even if there were though... that's not outside the realm of possibility. When the volume is restricted, and the pressure increased, the temperature rises.

Volume = pressure x Temperature... if they are being compressed, and have no where to expand.... then they will rise in temperature... if they were already heated by jet fuel, then it's possible to heat them further via pressure.

Tempusfugit said:
Perhaps, but its not. The exact steel used in the WTC(for this very reason) has a melting point well above what any hydrocarbon fuel can burn at.
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See above...

Tempusfugit said:
lol... unsubscribed. My physics professor and logic outweigh your highly "discussed" wiki article.
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You might want to enroll in a different school, if your professor believes this nonsense.
 
I once got in a heated debate with a colleague at work (so heated a supervisor had to break us up) about this. He honestly believed that this was a vast conspiracy involving everyone from civilian eyewitnesses to first responders to the media covering it to the people at the highest levels of government. He told me that I was naive to think that "they" couldn't orchestrate a conspiracy involving literally hundreds of thousands of people.
 
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