WTC 11/9/2001 - conspiracy or not?

[byteware]

get used to it, month before day sucks

Nuh uh... Day before Month Sucks...

 

[wiretap]

I'm not into theories, but some things just stand out as very odd.

The only questions I would like answered are..

1) Why did the FBI take and never release the flight recorders found at the WTC that firefighters say they found 3 out of the 4 from the planes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv7BScL-2ss

2) Why did firefighters claim they were in secondary and tertiary explosions at ground levels in the lobby of the WTC, as well as janitors working in the basement? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IYlEVCpG_0

3) Why have several independent reports from scientists analyzing WTC steel find military grade nanothermite in it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNyaoYR3y0

4) Why did firefighters going up the staircases near the upper floors claim molten metal was flowing down the beams like a quote "foundry"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3qZG0T6__4

5) Why did several media outlets report WT7's collapse before it even collapsed, and why did that building fall uniformly across the entire width at close to free-fall speed? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv7BImVvEyk

6) Why did five of the hijackers have records of being involved with our own military, training at our own bases? http://www.newsweek.com/2001/09/14/alleged-hijackers-may-have-trained-at-u-s-bases.html

7) Why have half the 9/11 Commission Report panel members come out and say the government is not telling the truth about the events of 9/11? http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/09/anniversary-of-911.html

These are things not addressed in the 9/11 Commission Report, nor by any media outlets, nor the government.

 

[bajabum]

I'm not into theories, but some things just stand out as very odd.

The only questions I would like answered are..

Don't hold your breath, point in case; JFK, MTK, RFK, OKC to list a few.
Cui bono? ............Et tu, Brute?

 

[Mac_Leod]

I tend to lump people who think 9/11 was an inside job into the same category as those who think the moon landing was faked.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I'm not into theories, but some things just stand out as very odd.

The only questions I would like answered are..

1) Why did the FBI take and never release the flight recorders found at the WTC that firefighters say they found 3 out of the 4 from the planes?

An allegation made by one person on a conspiracy show does not constitute proof that the FBI took the flight recorders. Just saying. The one eyewitness could easily be lieing or be crazy or simply be mistaken.

2) Why did firefighters claim they were in secondary and tertiary explosions at ground levels in the lobby of the WTC, as well as janitors working in the basement?

There was a raging fire going on. Transformers in the building were exploding, walls and floors were falling, etc... All of these things are consistent with a building fire. All of these things are make loud booms, bangs and crashes which eyewitnesses might report as explosions.

3) Why have several independent reports from scientists analyzing WTC steel find military grade nanothermite in it?

I can't speak for all the reports, but the ones I've seen/heard did testing years and years after the fact. If you are testing something 4-5 years after the fact, the chain of custody becomes extremely suspicious. Especially when you factor in that all you need to make thermite is aluminum and rust which are things that are commonly found in any environment and which you can get at any hardware store. Testing done by the feds at the time of the accident did not find anything, but we can't trust these results of course.

4) Why did firefighters going up the staircases near the upper floors claim molten metal was flowing down the beams like a quote "foundry"?

This is the first I've heard of this honestly. Not sure what it proves one way or the other even if true.

5) Why did several media outlets report WT7's collapse before it even collapsed, and why did that building fall uniformly across the entire width at close to free-fall speed?

Umm, bad reporting? Human error? People trying to scoop each other with inaccurate information? Much easier to believe in a mass conspiracy involving tens and maybe even hundreds of thousands of people than simple human error and bad reporting though.

6) Why did five of the hijackers have records of being involved with our own military, training at our own bases? Alleged Hijackers May Have Trained At U.S. Bases - Newsweek

Did you read the article? It's rife with "may have", "could have", and "might have been". Then they say that when you compare the lists of names the only difference is that the names are spelled differently and the birth dates are different. Could that possibly indicate that these are completely different people? I mean surely John Smith with DOB of 1/23/1976 is the same as Jon Smith with DOB of 6/19/1980. The names are spelled differently and the DOBs are different, but they have to be the same person.

 

[byteware]

I'm not into theories, but some things just stand out as very odd.

The only questions I would like answered are..

The questions I would like answered are:

1) Why did the FBI take and never release the flight recorders found at the WTC that firefighters say they found 3 out of the 4 from the planes?

Why were firefighters looking for flight recorders? And why did they even know what the flight recorders LOOKED like?

2) Why did firefighters claim they were in secondary and tertiary explosions at ground levels in the lobby of the WTC, as well as janitors working in the basement?

How did firefighters who were in explosions big enough to bring down the towers have time to state that they were?

3) Why have several independent reports from scientists analyzing WTC steel find military grade nanothermite in it?

When did independent scientists get their hands on steel from WTC, and what are their credentials?

4) Why did firefighters going up the staircases near the upper floors claim molten metal was flowing down the beams like a quote "foundry"?

How did firefighters survive at that temperature.

5) Why did several media outlets report WT7's collapse before it even collapsed, and why did that building fall uniformly across the entire width at close to free-fall speed?

What other media outlets besides the BBC made this report early?

6) Why did five of the hijackers have records of being involved with our own military, training at our own bases?

Did you read your own source? The conclusion was that they had stolen the identities of foreign nationals.

7) Why have half the 9/11 Commission Report panel members come out and say the government is not telling the truth about the events of 9/11? The Anniversary of 9/11 → Washington's Blog

Again, did you read your own source? These news articles mention the government lying to the commission about how badly they bungled the response to the attacks...

These are things not addressed in the 9/11 Commission Report, nor by any media outlets, nor the government.

That's funny. Aside from the YouTube Videos... most of these were either links to media outlet stories, or links to pages with links to media outlet stories...

Have you read this?

BBC - The Editors: Part of the conspiracy?

 

[wiretap]

And as usual, the questions still go unanswered. Yes, the eyewitnesses there that day were all crazy, the firefighters and WTC workers are lying, and the engineers and scientists are not real engineers and scientists.

 

[byteware]

And as usual, the questions still go unanswered. Yes, the eyewitnesses there that day were all crazy, the firefighters and WTC workers are lying, and the engineers and scientists are not real engineers and scientists.

Yes, all the questions posed to conspiracy theorists generally do go unanswered.

 

[wiretap]

I wouldn't call them conspiracy theory questions.. they are just unanswered questions that the initial investigation did not even touch when they should have.

 

[byteware]

I wouldn't call them conspiracy theory questions.. they are just unanswered questions that the initial investigation did not even touch when they should have.

Since you've posted your conspiracy theory questions... a few questions were asked of you... and you have not answered those.

 

[wiretap]

You don't answer questions by asking different ones. Questions get answered with facts.

 

[Bob Maxey]

You don't answer questions by asking different ones. Questions get answered with facts.

And you have been asked several point blank; succinct and to the point, and we are still waiting.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Just tossing this out there the NIST says that in order for thermite to be used on WTC 7, they would've needed 100 lbs...........per column. You're not going to put 100 lbs of thermite on a column accidentally.

 

[A.Nonymous]

You don't answer questions by asking different ones. Questions get answered with facts.

And the facts are out there that answer the questions. They are simply ignored because they don't fit in "ideal, perfect world" scenarios.

I ran into a conspiracy theorist once who is convinced that 9/11 is an inside job because there is no way in the world the US is that insecure. They had to have let it happen or it never would've happened. Yet a guy got a on a plane at JFK just a few weeks ago with a bag full of boxcutters. The exact same weapon used in the 9/11 attacks and some guy got on a plane in the city that was attacked on 9/11 with the same weapon.

 

[wiretap]

I'd just like all the questions answered before I draw an official conclusion. I'm a scientifically oriented person (an engineer myself), not a political-take-your-word-for-it person.

 

[wiretap]

And you have been asked several point blank; succinct and to the point, and we are still waiting.

Still waiting for yours.

 

[wiretap]

The questions I would like answered are:



Why were firefighters looking for flight recorders? And why did they even know what the flight recorders LOOKED like?
Obviously in a plane crash you're looking for flight recorders. Part of the firefighter and rescue worker recovery mission was to look for flight recorders and human remains.


How did firefighters who were in explosions big enough to bring down the towers have time to state that they were?
They never said the explosions were at the exact time of collapse. They said the explosions happened and they got out.. the tower collapsing after they were already out. My thoughts were more along the lines of suicide bombers trying to kill rescue workers and more people (which they are notorious for). What's to say the only way the terrorists attacked were planes on that day since there are reports of other explosions?



When did independent scientists get their hands on steel from WTC, and what are their credentials?
Google it. Pieces were obtained by universities and scientists around the world. Some of it was hand picked by ground zero workers themselves. This was before almost every bit of it was quickly sent to China and melted down.


How did firefighters survive at that temperature.
I've been very close to molten metal and it never killed me. It's called air, it insulates heat. I'm sure it was still very hot where they were at concerning fire and molten metal as they describe it.


What other media outlets besides the BBC made this report early?
BBC first reported on it. They were the lead story, Fox News and ABC picked up on their story and also reported it.. at least on my local affiliates.


Did you read your own source? The conclusion was that they had stolen the identities of foreign nationals.
They said they still don't know whether that is the case.. it needs more investigation. With more than one occurrence, a coincidence is a bit odd to me.


Again, did you read your own source? These news articles mention the government lying to the commission about how badly they bungled the response to the attacks...
Read it. The commission routinely said the government did not give them answers they asked questions to, siting national security reasons. There are further interviews with people who testified for the 9/11 commission.. you can look up the youtube videos if you're interested.


That's funny. Aside from the YouTube Videos... most of these were either links to media outlet stories, or links to pages with links to media outlet stories...
Yup, and none of them answer the questions.

Have you read this?

BBC - The Editors: Part of the conspiracy?
Yup, and they don't answer the critical questions.. more speculation.

Responses in red.

Actually, an even more amazing fluke is they found the hijacker's passports that came out of their pockets or luggage at ground zero, but they couldn't find the black boxes. To me, that's a true miracle.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I'd just like all the questions answered before I draw an official conclusion. I'm a scientifically oriented person (an engineer myself), not a political-take-your-word-for-it person.

As am I. I feel all the questions have been answered. The information we have answers all the questions I have to my satisfaction. It explains everything. It may not explain everything as everyone THINKS it should've happened, but it does explain everything given what we KNOW happened. Now, it's possible that we know to have happened is not what actually happened and there are questions that are unanswered. Based on what we do know, the official story explains everything.

 

[wiretap]

As am I. I feel all the questions have been answered. The information we have answers all the questions I have to my satisfaction. It explains everything. It may not explain everything as everyone THINKS it should've happened, but it does explain everything given what we KNOW happened. Now, it's possible that we know to have happened is not what actually happened and there are questions that are unanswered. Based on what we do know, the official story explains everything.

The science does not add up, plain and simple. WTC7 is a shining example of that. Every single support column breaking at the exact time.. sheer awesomeness if you ask me. Now that's what I call precision fire. That alone demands a full investigation of it's own. Any engineer or citizen with a few brain cells would say the same. In fact, I'd be satisfied if that was the only investigation carried out.

 

[A.Nonymous]

The science does not add up, plain and simple. WTC7 is a shining example of that. Every single support column breaking at the exact time.. sheer awesomeness if you ask me. Now that's what I call precision fire. That alone demands a full investigation of it's own. Any engineer or citizen with a few brain cells would say the same. In fact, I'd be satisfied if that was the only investigation carried out.

The architect who designed the building disagrees with you. There was a warning issued by the feds after the OKC bombing warning that buildings constructed the way WTC7 was could collapse in a terrorist attack. Not to mention the fact that you had 42,000 gallons of diesel fuel sitting right on top of the main trusses.

 

[wiretap]

Many other architects and engineers disagree with that, which means there should be an investigation. The perfect uniformity of the collapse is in question. Fires do not burn that precise to weaken every one of the supports at the same rate until collapse. You cannot point to any other incident in history.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Many other architects and engineers disagree with that, which means there should be an investigation. The perfect uniformity of the collapse is in question. Fires do not burn that precise to weaken every one of the supports at the same rate until collapse. You cannot point to any other incident in history.

They don't have to weaken every single support.

Fine, have it your way. They put thermite on the columns. Would've taken (according to NIST) 100 lbs of thermite per column. Please tell me how you put 100 lbs of thermite on the main columns of the building without anyone noticing? Also, how would you guarantee the building catches on fire or is even damaged? Now you suddenly have a conspiracy involving planes hitting the WTC in a coordinated precise way just so you can damage WTC7 enough that it causes a fire. I'm sorry, but I don't find that likely at all.

 

[wiretap]

If every (or almost every) support did not weaken at the same rate to cause the collapse, you would have seen the building partially collapse, like with every other building fire, especially in fires where load bearing columned skyscrapers are in question.

Also, it does not take 100lb of thermite per column. There's quite a few videos out there on youtube that disprove it. It takes just a little bit of home-made garbage thermite to burn through a 12'' I-beam. The nano-structured thermite that scientists are claiming they found is much more efficient and more powerful.

 

[bajabum]

The architect who designed the building disagrees with you. There was a warning issued by the feds after the OKC bombing warning that buildings constructed the way WTC7 was could collapse in a terrorist attack. Not to mention the fact that you had 42,000 gallons of diesel fuel sitting right on top of the main trusses.

If as you seem to believe, steel and concrete buildings will collapse due to fire, please tell us of other buildings that have collapsed due to fire. BTW the WTC buildings where designed to withstand being hit by Boeing 707.
And since you brought up OKC what ever happened to the other bombs discovered inside the building and who planted them?

 

[bajabum]

I tend to lump people who think 9/11 was an inside job into the same category as those who think the moon landing was faked.

I'll bet you still believe Iraq had WMD's too. That was the official story right? Must be true.