WTC 11/9/2001 - conspiracy or not?

[Homan13PSU]

Darn.. I was hoping to see the actual plane in them.. can't even tell the angle of attack or speed.

Like I said, the only two camera's other than the ones that would have been close enough to catch anything. If you've never been to The Pentagon, you wouldn't understand it until you see the reference of The Pentagon, compared to everything else in Crystal City, which is at closest a quarter mile away and on the other side of 395.

 

[byteware]

- I had searched for the videos from '02 to around '05 and I hadn't looked since. Thank you for providing them. I wasn't aware they had released them under FOIA. Now if they'd only release more evidence.

Request it.

- There have been a few militarys and military contractors around the world producing nanothermite since the 90's (that I'm aware of).. it isn't out of the question. Maybe if someone investigated it further, they could even get a chemical signature and link it to a certain producer.

Negative.

Nano-thermite was highly experimental until about 2002.

In fact research facilities were capable producing about 10 grams per hour in 2002.

Edited: I originally stated, erroneously, that production facilities were capable of producing about 10 grams an hour.

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/34/33115.pdf

- When there's two firefighters who were proven to be long term cleanup members swearing they saw the FBI take the flight recorders away, I believe that needs to be looked into further.

Two firefighters who were proven to be long term cleanup members?

How was it proven that they were firefighters?

How was it proven that they were long term cleanup members?

If you can't answer these questions, then I guess you just accept what you're told...

 

[wiretap]

Request it.



Negative.

Nano-thermite was highly experimental until about 2002.

In fact research facilities were capable producing about 10 grams per hour in 2002.

Edited: I originally stated, erroneously, that production facilities were capable of producing about 10 grams an hour.

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/34/33115.pdf



Two firefighters who were proven to be long term cleanup members?

How was it proven that they were firefighters?

How was it proven that they were long term cleanup members?

If you can't answer these questions, then I guess you just accept what you're told...

- I have requested through numerous petitions. Direct calls didn't work.

- Those are public admissions, in US facilities.. everyone here knows how weapons research works. The product is produced about a decade earlier, then it gets released to the public. We've seen it with NASA materials, bunker-buster technology, UAV's, etc. 10 grams per hour in 2002 is a pretty fast production rate concerning it's limited applications.

-Nicholas DeMasi was a firefighter at Engine Company 261 in Queens, you can verify it through his co-workers. Mike Bellone was not a firefighter, but named an honorary firefighter by the NYFD ladder company because of his cleanup work and involvement. You can verify both of their involvements at ground zero because there are numerous pictures of them cleaning up and searching through debris, taken at different periods in time.

 

[TheBrit]

9/11 was a terrorist attack by foreigners - fact - get over it.
Man landed on the moon - fact - get over it.
Elvis is dead - fact - get over it.
JFK - hmmm - that one does look like a cover up.

 

[wiretap]

9/11 was a terrorist attack by foreigners - fact - get over it.
Man landed on the moon - fact - get over it.
Elvis is dead - fact - get over it.
JFK - hmmm - that one does look like a cover up.

I wasn't disputing those things. I agree.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Most importantly...how come there wasn't a perfectly shaped hole in the Pentagon that looked EXACTLY like a 757?

Seriously, I saw a coyote go through a wall once. It looked exactly like this.

Just saying.

 

[A.Nonymous]

And this comes as some big, freaky surprise to you? Perhaps it is a conspiracy and that is where the alien recipe for chocolate space cookies is kept.

Seriously, it is the Pentagon. You really think it is any of your (or my) business? Get a grip.

Bob

Technically, it is a government building funded by taxpayer dollars so it kind of is our business. On the one hand some of the secrecy makes perfect sense. Some of it doesn't. I don't see what releasing footage of the plane actually hitting the building could possibly reveal about national security. I can see not releasing detailed photos of the damage though.

 

[A.Nonymous]

1. It does not require 100lb per column.. I don't know where you are pulling this number from.

Someone else responded to the nano-thermite claims and I have nothing to add to that. The 100 lb per column is listed by NIST which also gives a very, very good explanation on why tests done after the fact actually found traces of Thermite. I hadn't even considered it all, but it makes complete and total sense. I quote it here because it reeks of awesomeness IMO. The original question is bolded in as well as the 100 lbs number. Emphasis is mine.

Is it possible that thermite or thermate contributed to the collapse of WTC 7?

NIST has looked at the application and use of thermite and has determined that its use to sever columns in WTC 7 on 9/11/01 was unlikely.


Thermite is a combination of aluminum powder and a metal oxide that releases a tremendous amount of heat when ignited. It is typically used to weld railroad rails together by melting a small quantity of steel and pouring the melted steel into a form between the two rails.


To apply thermite to a large steel column, approximately 0.13 lb of thermite would be needed to heat and melt each pound of steel. For a steel column that weighs approximately 1,000 lbs. per foot, at least 100 lbs. of thermite would need to be placed around the column, ignited, and remain in contact with the vertical steel surface as the thermite reaction took place. This is for one column . presumably, more than one column would have been prepared with thermite, if this approach were to be used.


It is unlikely that 100 lbs. of thermite, or more, could have been carried into WTC 7 and placed around columns without being detected, either prior to Sept. 11 or during that day.


Given the fires that were observed that day, and the demonstrated structural response to the fires, NIST does not believe that thermite was used to fail any columns in WTC 7.


Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC buildings, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard used for interior partitions.

2. When you have such a tall building coming down, it was sure to damage other buildings close by.

Not necessarily. It depends on how the building falls. Even so, you don't know what kind of damage it's going to do. If it only does cosmetic damage to the facade of the building then you lighting a ginormous fire inside is going to look a wee bit suspicious. Worse, if the building doesn't fall at all, then you're really gonna be screwed.

3. That is another unanswered question. It's odd that being that high up, well above where the fires were. In most official footage (supplied by NIST and other government agencies), this is edited out.

It's not an unanswered question. A fire damaging main support structures and bringing down the building as NIST reported is completely consistent with the penthouse and the shed collapsing prior to the rest of the building. The center support column collapses. Twenty seconds later, the side support struts leaning on the center support column collapse. With nothing to proper up the sides, they place more pressure on the center and the whole building comes down. Completely consistent with the official story.

4. That is another question needing to be answered. When you find out the full set of people involved in the attacks, not only the terrorists, you will have an answer. This is why a full investigation needs to be conducted.

Or does it? Why look for a motive if there's no crime?

 

[TheBrit]

Technically, it is a government building funded by taxpayer dollars so it kind of is our business. On the one hand some of the secrecy makes perfect sense. Some of it doesn't. I don't see what releasing footage of the plane actually hitting the building could possibly reveal about national security. I can see not releasing detailed photos of the damage though.

But there are many detailed photos of the damage in the public domain but precious little footage of the impact. Unfortunately this is food to the nutjobs out there.

 

[Tempusfugit]

wow, thermite was invented when? the 1800s?? Our government has spent how many trillions on research since then?? And then in this scenario, some form of thermite is possibly part of the equation. How many pounds of more advanced thermite on an already weakened column would it take? I'll let one of our resident physicists take the question.

And I like how the "truther thermite story" has to take down more than one column, but when we argue the reverse - the fuel would have to weaken all of them, you state it only needed one, and the rest would follow... the architect agreed or something.

 

[A.Nonymous]

wow, thermite was invented when? the 1800s?? Our government has spent how many trillions on research since then?? And then in this scenario, some form of thermite is possibly part of the equation. How many pounds of more advanced thermite on an already weakened column would it take? I'll let one of our resident physicists take the question.

And I like how the "truther thermite story" has to take down more than one column, but when we argue the reverse - the fuel would have to weaken all of them, you state it only needed one, and the rest would follow... the architect agreed or something.

I'll point you back to the NIST study that explains in depth exactly how the building fell.

 

[Homan13PSU]

- I have requested through numerous petitions. Direct calls didn't work.

- bunker-buster technology,

Actually, the original bunker busters were developed at break neck speed during the first Gulf War. The production timeline was so compressed the bomb casing itself was made out of old 8" artillary barrels. From request, to production to first test drop took two weeks.

 

[Homan13PSU]

Another thing for you truthers. If some sort of thermite, regular or nano were used to cut the steel support structures, please tell me why of those columns found, none of them showed charactoristic thermite burn/melting patterns on them? Those patterns are extremely unique and in all steel analyzed by NIST, they couldn't find ONE beam with those marks.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Another thing for you truthers. If some sort of thermite, regular or nano were used to cut the steel support structures, please tell me why of those columns found, none of them showed charactoristic thermite burn/melting patterns on them? Those patterns are extremely unique and in all steel analyzed by NIST, they couldn't find ONE beam with those marks.

Duh!! They covered it up. The fact that they found nothing proves it was a cover up.

 

[Homan13PSU]

wow, thermite was invented when? the 1800s?? Our government has spent how many trillions on research since then?? And then in this scenario, some form of thermite is possibly part of the equation. How many pounds of more advanced thermite on an already weakened column would it take? I'll let one of our resident physicists take the question.

Hold on, hold on one second here. Re-reading I just saw this. Are you saying that AFTER the planes hit, someone walked up into the buildings and applied thermite to steel columns...IN A BURNING BUILDING?!

 

[byteware]

- I have requested through numerous petitions. Direct calls didn't work.

There's no reason they would. It requires and FIOA request.

- Those are public admissions, in US facilities.. everyone here knows how weapons research works. The product is produced about a decade earlier, then it gets released to the public. We've seen it with NASA materials, bunker-buster technology, UAV's, etc. 10 grams per hour in 2002 is a pretty fast production rate concerning it's limited applications.

So, do you have any proof this was in production with the military prior to 2002? No. You make assumptions because you need that assumption for this to be a possible coverup.

These people were INVENTING this process. They were working in conjunction with labs for every military branch, and los alamos.

Everyone researching this tech was aware of the others, because this isn't a new application of an existing technology (UAV's), this was a new technology. They create particles on the nanometer scale. That had never been done before, and could not be done reliably at the time of the 9/11 attacks.

-Nicholas DeMasi was a firefighter at Engine Company 261 in Queens, you can verify it through his co-workers.

Actually true, but he won't talk about that claim.

Mike Bellone was not a firefighter, but named an honorary firefighter by the NYFD ladder company because of his cleanup work and involvement. You can verify both of their involvements at ground zero because there are numerous pictures of them cleaning up and searching through debris, taken at different periods in time.

Mike was named "honorary firefighter" by friends, not by the company.

There is no official award to him of that position.

Plus, he's also been arrested for stealing equipment for said fire company and living off the book he self published (and never paid for) where he corroborates the story.

9/11 TOUR FUROR - FIRE MARSHALS PROBE GROUND ZERO EXHIBIT - NYPOST.com

 

[byteware]

wow, thermite was invented when? the 1800s?? Our government has spent how many trillions on research since then?? And then in this scenario, some form of thermite is possibly part of the equation. How many pounds of more advanced thermite on an already weakened column would it take? I'll let one of our resident physicists take the question.

The ability to create nano-particles, or even measure nano-particles has been around since... oh yeah, it's still in it's infancy.

And I like how the "truther thermite story" has to take down more than one column, but when we argue the reverse - the fuel would have to weaken all of them, you state it only needed one, and the rest would follow... the architect agreed or something.

I think you are confusing two different buildings.

 

[A.Nonymous]

To be fair, just because a guy is a complete douchebag doesn't make his story bogus. What makes his story bogus is the fact that he has no evidence whatsoever to back it up and no corroborating witnesses.

 

[freebroc2]

Buildings don't fall into their footprint from damage half way up. The controlled demolition business would be a lot easier if this were the case.

Oh, and if the "cretins" want to get us, there are much easier ways than building and launching a nuke..

It was a big concpiracy in my opinion. This was a horrible drama played on the earth and the director of this drama is still hidden behind the scene.

 

[Homan13PSU]

It was a big concpiracy in my opinion. This was a horrible drama played on the earth and the director of this drama is still hidden behind the scene.

Alright, I'll come clean. It IS a conspiracy.

The Freemasons carried this whole thing out on the world stage for all to see.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Alright, I'll come clean. It IS a conspiracy.

The Freemasons carried this whole thing out on the world stage for all to see.

I heard it was the Reptilians. Or was it the Jews? The Illuminati? Bohemian grove? I can't keep all my evil organizations that are running the world straight. Is there a "Dummies Guide to Evil Organizations that are running the world?

 

[chrisinsocalif]

Just to chime in, I volunteer as a firefighter, and when you go in a building, occasionally see molten metal. People assumed the molten metal at ground zero was "steel" but also could be a number of other metals involved such as Aluminum, silver, lead, solder, brass, so on, from varying sources like electronics or from the airplane itself. Its difficult to identify metals in a molten form.

As for a controlled demolition, I don't understand why conspiracy theorists even argue this point. There are a number of banks, credit agencies and other companies that have very sensitive proprietary data and employ their own security forces to protect this data. There is the also the buildings security force. Try entering a high rise office building and getting to the top floor and see how fast security will notices you. Smuggling in explosives and placing them strategically without anyone knowing or identifying them sounds really silly. Maybe the Gov hired ninja's. Either way, the nano-thermite theory is simply a red-herring.

 

[Homan13PSU]

If you listen to Jesse Ventura, nano-thermites can be turned into a paint, and "painted onto the walls". Supposedly, regular painters applied nano-thermite paint to the walls of the building. Which, leaves out a core application in contolled demo, you rip out the walls and rig the supporting structures of the building.

Ant, from Opie and Anthony does a very good, and very funny impersination of Jesse Ventura, frequently referencing "Thermite Paint".

Just to chime in, I volunteer as a firefighter, and when you go in a building, occasionally see molten metal. People assumed the molten metal at ground zero was "steel" but also could be a number of other metals involved such as Aluminum, silver, lead, solder, brass, so on, from varying sources like electronics or from the airplane itself. Its difficult to identify metals in a molten form.

As for a controlled demolition, I don't understand why conspiracy theorists even argue this point. There are a number of banks, credit agencies and other companies that have very sensitive proprietary data and employ their own security forces to protect this data. There is the also the buildings security force. Try entering a high rise office building and getting to the top floor and see how fast security will notices you. Smuggling in explosives and placing them strategically without anyone knowing or identifying them sounds really silly. Maybe the Gov hired ninja's. Either way, the nano-thermite theory is simply a red-herring.

 

[byteware]

If you listen to Jesse Ventura, nano-thermites can be turned into a paint, and "painted onto the walls". Supposedly, regular painters applied nano-thermite paint to the walls of the building. Which, leaves out a core application in contolled demo, you rip out the walls and rig the supporting structures of the building.

Ant, from Opie and Anthony does a very good, and very funny impersination of Jesse Ventura, frequently referencing "Thermite Paint".

Which of course, when they could only make 10 grams an hour... they had turning it into paint down pat.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Also, it would take 100 lbs of thermite.

"Hi, I'm here to paint your building. This 100 lb container I'm carrying is my paint. I know I could normally cover this column with a gallon or two of paint, but I'm being very, very thorough."