Deal Breaker

[anotherfandroid]

Is this why so many iPhone users are clamoring for Geohot/DEV TEAM to release jailbreaks for new iPhones right away. There are too many things that APPLE won't let you do with the iPhone that people want.

JB Apps that many use:
Backgrounder (Run apps in the background)
3G Unrestrictor (Run voip and other wifi only apps in 3G)
Bite SMS (Emoticons, Quick Reply to text, etc)
Google Voice (Apple Banned all GV apps from app store)
Intellescreen (People put widgets on their screen)

These are things that iPhone can't do without being hacked. Android does most of them out of the box... or within a couple of visits to the Android Market.

now that is a great rebuttal! one of the best posts on this thread.

 

[Push]

I was playing with the moto droid yesterday and when I was resizing a picture for a wallpaper, I had to use multitouch. Its a luxury. But really only necessary on a screen LIKE the iphone. use a droid or a nexus one and realize that the resolution is so much larger. You really find yourself tapping to zoom in to an interest point and then zooming back out....ONE FINGER BROWSING IS EASIER.

 

[ckgreenman]

Anyways, for anyone who's stumbled onto this thread and is actually looking for help with a chartplotter or some sort of SD card based nautical navigation, I found another workaround.

OruxMaps

Yeah Ive messed with it as well. I also run a Sailing based forum and we have an active thread there as well. One of our users is working on getting the Raster (BSB) charts converted over to the Ozi format. Problem is they aren't always square so getting them calibrated isn't the easiest thing in the world. If you're interested you can read the whole thread HERE

One other thing I've tried is speaking with the developer of TrekBuddy which can also be used to export Orux maps but he's not really up to figuring out how it all works and integrating it.

The last thing I've tried (and the one that seems to have the most promise) is I posted a request to port OpenCPN over to Droid. OpenCPN is a cross platform chartplotter app that is built using wxWidgets and works with ENC (S57 format) and RNC charts among others. I don't know how hard it will be to port over to Java to work on the Droid but at least the project is Open Source.

But it's the making the maps that seems to be a little bit of a hassle, but thankfully it's somewhat standardized by also using the same format as

Official OziExplorer Web Site - GPS Mapping Software for Tracking and Navigation. Supports Garmin, Magellan, Lowrance and GPS

which to my admitted ignorance seems.. legitimate? Widespread?

The maps will need to be calibrated, but I suspect that brings more peace of mind than hassle if you're relying on them out on open waters. Ozi Explorer seems to be a fairly expensive piece of software, so it looks like Orux has assembled a suite of alternatives: OruxMaps

As mentioned above, If all you need are simple maps (Google terrain, OpenStreetMap,etc..) you can use TrekBuddy. It will download all the tiles you need, calibrate them, and put out an Orux map set. It even does multilayer maps. Of course this still doesn't solve the nautical chart need.

Anyways, this seems to be a rather small niche of users, but it is a case study highlighting one of the as-of-today drawbacks of Android; the market is smaller, so more niche-gaps exist. The Android Market is probably going to grow faster than App Store in terms of proportion, but at the end of the year, the App Store will still be more than twice as big, and gaps will remain.

 

[anotherfandroid]

AMEN on EVERYTHING you said. So why DO people who hate Android even come here? Nothing wrong with Windows 7 or WinMo but there is always someone who has something to say about them. Apple's OS is fine just obscenely overpriced. Kind of like buying a Harley vs a Honda. Honda is probably superior in all regards but most Harley owners will tell you that it's all about the lifestyle and NOT that the Harley is a more superior bike. Same thing with Apple. It's more about the "rep" than anything else. It's ok to buy both but at least admit that a good deal of their sales are due to that "image" thing.

so true!

my bro has an iphone and i asked him why he would not consider my mytouch? his answer was simple yet straight to the point. he said the iphone is faster and cooler.

people who purchase iphone and people who purchase macs are somewhat similar. they are willing to pay a premium for speed, extra stability, better UI, esthetics, and social status. people who use android can be compared to those who use windows: they are the pragmatists, and off course those who want things cheaper....it must be admitted though: you get what you pay for.

i just hope that android does not become another windows: always inferior, slower, less stable, less user-friendly than it's apple counterpart.

 

[ecb]

I'm pretty sure android phones are multi touch capable its the apps that aren't. But thats changing so ya iphone guy read up or shut up imo.

The Android OI are multi touch capable, but that functionality is not currently enabled in US phones. Applications, on the other hand, can take advantage of multi touch. The Dolphin browser is a perfect example. It has pinch to zoom functionality and runs extremely smoothly on the Nexus One.

Though there is no multi touch enabled in US Android phones, there is some logic in the virtual keyboard that recognized when 2 keys are pressed at the same time and records both keystrokes/ You can test this by using the landscape keyboard and pressing the "Q" key and holding it down, then press the "P" key. One you press the "P" key, the "Q" will be recorded on the screen. When you release the "P" key, the "Q" will be recorded. It's not multi touch, but it's pretty reliable.

The only other place where multi touch is very helpful would be games. However, if developers can enable multi touch, that should not be an issues.

All in all, I can't see how the fact that the core apps do not have multi touch enabled is a deal breaker given the work arounds and intelligence in the keyboard.

 

[Pastel]

All in all, I can't see how the fact that the core apps do not have multi touch enabled is a deal breaker given the work arounds and intelligence in the keyboard.

Don't forget Swype

 

[ckgreenman]

so true!

my bro has an iphone and i asked him why he would not consider my mytouch? his answer was simple yet straight to the point. he said the iphone is faster and cooler.

people who purchase iphone and people who purchase macs are somewhat similar. they are willing to pay a premium for speed, extra stability, better UI, esthetics, and social status. people who use android can be compared to those who use windows: they are the pragmatists, and off course those who want things cheaper....it must be admitted though: you get what you pay for.

i just hope that android does not become another windows: always inferior, slower, less stable, less user-friendly than it's apple counterpart.

Very true however I would probably say that those who buy an Android are closer to those who use Linux or like to tinker in the deep dark bowels of the system. In the Linux/Unix world we're used to workarounds and less polish. Those who get a WinMo phone are the true Windows users. "It's on my desktop so I already know it".

My $.02

 

[Pastel]

Personally, I think Windows is very successful, I'm sure you can at least agree on that, and that it owns Macs. We can get into specifics and all, but I just want to outline the business practices of their respective companies first. Microsoft, chose not to go into the hardware business, hence spawning many other companies which makes computers dedicated to Windows. Apple however, chose that they were going to control their respective market and chose to "make" their own hardware.

With Microsoft, you see thousands of jobs being created in many many different companies. With Apple, you see this really closed development, in which you can evidently see in the iPhone and how it is marketed. Windows 7, saw a rise in community efforts, making it more "open" and friendly. I think this is great as it really interacts with the consumers, the informed ones anyway.

ANNNYWAYYY, Excuse my ramblings.

 

[jfbaro]

I would live OK without multi-touch in the Browser and commonly used apps. But it would make a HUGE difference (for me) if I could get it working for the KEYBOARD and in a few games and emulators (for the joystick).

Do you guys think it may be done through a simple hack? Is there anyone already working on it?

Cheers

 

[Pastel]

I would live OK without multi-touch in the Browser and commonly used apps. But it would make a HUGE difference (for me) if I could get it working for the KEYBOARD and in a few games and emulators (for the joystick).

Do you guys think it may be done through a simple hack? Is there anyone already working on it?

Cheers

The nexus one is already rooted and cyanogen Twitter / Steve Kondik: Will have a mini-N1 update ... is working on it.

 

[ecb]

Don't forget Swype

Excellent Point ! I used the Swype beta on my Droid and was amazed by it. The accuracy was remarkable...and it's only a beta version.

I plan on getting Swype for the Nexus One as well.

 

[iPhoneMilk]

The Nexus, Droid and G1 are definitely NOT multi-touch.

Yes they are i'm using it right now on Dolphin browser. works great.

 

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

I'm pretty sure android phones are multi touch capable its the apps that aren't. But thats changing so ya iphone guy read up or shut up imo.

Whoa! I thought this was a forum for discussion.

Silly me.

Well, at least we're not falling into this trap:

http://androidforums.com/nexus-one/34041-guys-dont-turn-into-iphone-like-douche-bags.html

 

[LADude]

people who purchase iphone and people who purchase macs are somewhat similar. they are willing to pay a premium for speed, extra stability, better UI, esthetics, and social status. people who use android can be compared to those who use windows: they are the pragmatists, and off course those who want things cheaper....it must be admitted though: you get what you pay for.

I am absolutely a Mac user for the desktop. I hate tinkering with my desktop environment, I just want it to work. Plus, they're just way cooler. When you get down to it, the relative lack of issues with viruses is also worth the premium...which isn't as large as many make it out to be.

I'm not a developer or a tech guy, other than liking cool stuff.

I was drooling for an iPhone until I saw the latest generation of Android phones. Unless the next generation of iPhones is totally more compelling, or if they integrate it with the tablet in a manner that is game changing, I absolutely prefer Android, even with the integration that the iPhone has with a mac.

I also feel far closer to the leading edge with an Android phone, as their business model is far more interesting (ad revenues, etc.) than Apple's (hardware, aps, and incremental revenue through the iTunes store).

The cloud is mightier than Steve Jobs.

 

[thecrazing]

The PC/Mac comparison is an interesting one, but I'm not sure how useful it is beyond a first glance. For starters, in terms of feel, I definitely think Android is more linux-y. (I forget who I should be ^5-ing for bringing Linux into this analogy first.) Now, I guess really, we can completely discount Windows Mobile. But Nokia'a Symbian is actually the huuuuge leader in market share right now, sort of a lumbering, silent beast. However, almost no one in the real world really talks about that. I think it's sort of in the societal psychology that Apple is the true leader. And that makes sense, I mean, what do they have, like 10 million app downloads a day?

This is the first time Apple's really been in this kind of majority.

Sure, they had their majority with the iPod, but the introduction of the iPhone and iPod Touch add a whole new hemisphere to the product's ecosystem.

It will be interesting to see if and how and why the Apple philosophy can hold its majority when its been given one. Steve Jobs has a lot of experience with fighting Goliath, but how will he handle being Goliath? Two years may seem like an eternity in tech, but its just a starting point in terms of a brand's dynasty. Myspace is very, very quickly falling into irrelevance, and it has little to do with how many transistors you can pack into a square inch of silicon. Google made it into the dictionary, and it had little to do with the per-gigabyte price of hard drives. Trinitron was the goto highend television brand for more than a decade, but then Sony got lost in the weeds. Windows had such a brand for itself that it was able to survive Windows ME unscathed and then survive Vista. Talk about breathing room, I mean.. That's crazy!

 

[anotherfandroid]

The PC/Mac comparison is an interesting one, but I'm not sure how useful it is beyond a first glance. For starters, in terms of feel, I definitely think Android is more linux-y. (I forget who I should be ^5-ing for bringing Linux into this analogy first.) Now, I guess really, we can completely discount Windows Mobile. But Nokia'a Symbian is actually the huuuuge leader in market share right now, sort of a lumbering, silent beast. However, almost no one in the real world really talks about that. I think it's sort of in the societal psychology that Apple is the true leader. And that makes sense, I mean, what do they have, like 10 million app downloads a day?

This is the first time Apple's really been in this kind of majority.

Sure, they had their majority with the iPod, but the introduction of the iPhone and iPod Touch add a whole new hemisphere to the product's ecosystem.

It will be interesting to see if and how and why the Apple philosophy can hold its majority when its been given one. Steve Jobs has a lot of experience with fighting Goliath, but how will he handle being Goliath? Two years may seem like an eternity in tech, but its just a starting point in terms of a brand's dynasty. Myspace is very, very quickly falling into irrelevance, and it has little to do with how many transistors you can pack into a square inch of silicon. Google made it into the dictionary, and it had little to do with the per-gigabyte price of hard drives. Trinitron was the goto highend television brand for more than a decade, but then Sony got lost in the weeds. Windows had such a brand for itself that it was able to survive Windows ME unscathed and then survive Vista. Talk about breathing room, I mean.. That's crazy!

totally agree....crazy tech world we live in. we'll see how it ll wind up with superphones: fragmented renegade open cheap android vs centralized stable preppy expensive iphone.....

 

[DroidSuks]

From the Wall Street Journal review after a week of testing:

"But there are some downsides to the Nexus One. Like all Android phones, it relies too much ... on menus that create extra steps, including some menus that have a built-in

 

[LTZguy]

This is quite funny. let me put my .02 in..not that it really matters. First off I have a hero and it comes with multi touch...yaay for me..anyway.. The iphone is a really nice piece of equipment. There are faults in it just like every other phone. There is no one phone out there that does/has it all. Why bash on either phone? I'm glad there was an iphone invented...just think: Right before the iphone what was the coolest thing out? a Motorola Rzr...wow. I'm excited to see the technology starting to to catch up to apple. you have to admit, they have been ahead of the game with this phone for quite some time. Android definately has some potential.

The way I see it it to each their own. I dont like at&t. I think for the low quality service you receive, you pay too much. I chose sprint because I'm a cheapass and sprint works fine for me everywhere I travel. I have gripes about my phone yes, but i do enjoy it for sure. My wife has an iphone and honestly, i dont like it that much. Its neat and has some super cool features, but to talk on it is uncomfortable. I dont think the screen is quite as crisp as my hero. The camera does not take as good of a picture as my hero. I'm anxious to see whats coming soon.

 

[MattG]

Despite the better resolution screen, turn-by-turn navigation and voice typing, the item that will keep me from buying an N1 is the lack of a multi-touch screen.

This is where I stopped reading. The Nexus One HAS A MULTI-TOUCH SCREEN. Some of Google's first party applications do not support multi-touch for legal reasons. Just because Engadget and Gizmodo reviewers are iPhone fanboys, they review the device and say that it "doesn't have multi-touch", which it 100% absolutely positively does.

You know nothing of that you speak, so everything you have stated after this is moot. You bring an argument to the table and post wrong 'facts' in the opening sentence. Do some homework next time.

Enjoy your iPhone. I'll keep my 22 apps open and still be faster than your piece. Oh wait, I suppose you could jailbreak (which gimps the entire OS imo) and run about 3 apps at once before your phone is so slow that you must reboot. I had a 16GB iPhone 3G and dumped it for a Touch Pro2 on Verizon (which has since been obviously dumped for a N1). I had the iPhone for about 10 months, and regretted every last minute of it.

 

[YankeeDudeL]

Just want to point out that this Yankee loves his Droid and thinks the N1 in conjunction w/ Droid will help make Android all the more awesome.

 

[MattG]

Just want to point out that this Yankee loves his Droid and thinks the N1 in conjunction w/ Droid will help make Android all the more awesome.

I suppose a "Yankee" Tip of the Hat/Wag of the Finger is in line

 

[thecrazing]

On an intellectual, sure, I can tell myself that competition is great for all involved, that it forces carriers and manufacturers to do better and better.

But on a gut level, I like hearing things that Android's app market is growing, that devs are frustrated with Apple's review process. I like being able to take things for granted and be surprised when a friend's non-JB iPhone can't do it. (Srsly, you can't take it for granted that an IM app you download won't require you to stay on your contact list screen the whole time?) It's the same reason he probably feels a little smug when I look for an app that does something one of his apps can do, or I gripe about yet another ad on TV proclaiming so and so's new iPhone app is available, and I haven't seen anything like that for Android.

We're each pretty seriously invested in our platform. He wants to remain satisfied with his purchase, and so do I. Unfortunately, there is still some level of zero-competition here. I want people to spend less time developing iPhone apps and more on Android; there's only so much time and only so many qualified, experienced people, and these factors are only a little elastic. For the same reason, he doesn't want that balance to shift.

 

[IOWA]

the way i see it, this is the gist of your post: american android phones lack multitouch; you need multitouch; hence, at this point, android devices are not suitable for you.

well, i concur with you 100%. if i were someone who considered multitouch a supreme phone attribute, then i would surely stay away from any android device. but why are you telling this to android fans on this forum? are you by any chance under the hope that your opinion might sway android users against android?

the truth is: u.s android phones lack multitouch (and before any reactionary fandroid attacks me with the non-sensical non-consequential statement that goes like this: oh, our android phones are MT-capable it's just that google disabled the feature in stock android...look at our little stupid dolphin system replacement app; it's got MT, before any attack, the OP is justified in claiming that there's no MT on american androids, BECAUSE THERE ISN'T. when you take out your N1 from the box, THERE IS NO MT, PERIOD! and NO!!! system replacement APPS are NOT A VALID OPTION because they undermine the MOST IMPORTANT attribute of a smartphone, PERFORMANCE, stop the dolphin non-sense...dolphin shmolphin....out of the box, a u.s android phone has NO MT, period. end of story!!!); back to you OP: people prefer android for many reasons; these reasons are not related to MT, and that's why you cannot sway people against their android phones. for instance, android fans prefer it because they consider customizability, freedom, and lower premiums to be superior to MT.

so basically, iphone and android devices are different products with different superior attributes, appealing to different crowds.

Here's where you are wrong, and here is why.

The beauty of Android is it is OPEN SOURCE. So we can make these work arounds, and make them easy to use. Do You use Internet explorer? Probably not. How many browsers does apple iPhone offer? One. How many will there be in the next 5 years? 1. I like having choices, with different features. Just because you like being told what to like, and that you can't use anything else doesn't mean we do. If is US phones DID lack multitouch, then we wouldnt be able to use it, PERIOD. No matter what software we were using.


Now another thing, why would someone want to use their phone as a nautical navigator? Seriously? I find the GPS on phones to be annoying enough, let alone water GPS. Its a handy little thing but it can't beat a dedicated device.

 

[jpasint]

Here's where you are wrong, and here is why.
How many browsers does apple iPhone offer? One. How many will there be in the next 5 years? 1.

You might want to check your source on this one.......

Joe

 

[Napoleon_PhoneApart]

True. I have a 3GS and there are many browsers available.