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Why the "ICS" update may not be a good idea

My GUESS is that you will change your mind.

I'm still in a 3G-only area so the pressure is not as high for me to jump to an unsupported release. I'm looking forward to they release of ICS. I'm really looking forward to getting 4G.

... Thom
 
I poke around the web a lot, just reading up on things and decided I was going to taste the ICS leak on my bionic. I tripped across a few articles that stated the .235 ICS leak will make it impossible to get back to gingerbread!

Like I said, if you use the bionic in the same way, hold back on any ICS updates.

Feel free to chime in if any of my information is found incorrect. :)
 
Chime #1: .235 is one of 6 different leaks. (.2231, .2233, .229, .230, .232, and .235).

Chime #2: Every post that says do not use .235 b/c you cannot go back ALSO says stick with .232, from which you can go back.

Chime #3: Going back to GB is pointless - once the release is final, you will not be able to go back if you install it.

Chime #4: You are not stuck on .235, b/c we have a method to move forward from .235 (to the next leak if there is one, or els to the final if it is different from .235).

Chime #5: I still disagree with your point of buying a BIONIC and limiting it in terms of capabilities and resources, but that is your prerogative. Its akin to buying a NHRA Dragster and driving it in your neighborhood. There are plenty of other devices that are 3G-only, single core that would serve in a much better capacity than the Droid BIONIC.
 
johnlgalt said:
Chime #1: .235 is one of 6 different leaks. (.2231, .2233, .229, .230, .232, and .235).

Chime #2: Every post that says do not use .235 b/c you cannot go back ALSO says stick with .232, from which you can go back.

Chime #3: Going back to GB is pointless - once the release is final, you will not be able to go back if you install it.

Chime #4: You are not stuck on .235, b/c we have a method to move forward from .235 (to the next leak if there is one, or els to the final if it is different from .235).

Chime #5: I still disagree with your point of buying a BIONIC and limiting it in terms of capabilities and resources, but that is your prerogative. Its akin to buying a NHRA Dragster and driving it in your neighborhood. There are plenty of other devices that are 3G-only, single core that would serve in a much better capacity than the Droid BIONIC.
Click to expand...

It's a little thing called personal preference. This post was not designed for those like you that want ICS. It's designed for those of us that have a stable phone and are completely satisfied with it 'As-Is'.

Furthermore I actually use my webtop and want to keep my firefox browser. I don't have home internet service and I don't illegally tether, hence, the firefox browser has pulled me out of aome messes when I couldn't make use of any mobile browser.

Webtop, as it stands, is the closest thing to free tethering, I'm not prepared to give that up! I may be in the minority here with my philosophy and how I actually use my phone, so again, this post was designed for like minded folks.

Personal preference...

P.S. My phone is and has been fast enough to suit MY needs, and I use every inch of this bionic.
 
Satires said:
It's a little thing called personal preference. This post was not designed for those like you that want ICS. It's designed for those of us that have a stable phone and are completely satisfied with it 'As-Is'.

Furthermore I actually use my webtop and want to keep my firefox browser. I don't have home internet service and I don't illegally tether, hence, the firefox browser has pulled me out of aome messes when I couldn't make use of any mobile browser.

Webtop, as it stands, is the closest thing to free tethering, I'm not prepared to give that up! I may be in the minority here with my philosophy and how I actually use my phone, so again, this post was designed for like minded folks.

Personal preference...

P.S. My phone is and has been fast enough to suit MY needs, and I use every inch of this bionic.
Click to expand...

Stable? ICS leaks are more stable than GB, b/c the connectivity radios work much better than they ever have in GB - Every GB leak / OTA / Update has had its issues with connectivity, but ICS .232 / .235 (both of which use the same radios, BTW) are astounding in their ability to keep the data connection up unless your area is truly having a data blackout.

Webtop on ICS is much smoother, and works the way it was intended - with or without a lapdock. Hook it up to your TV, it works. You do lose Fx, which is annoying me as much as it does you, but I'd rather have a smoother overall experience than force a choppy signal in order to use my favorite browser.

Finally, if this thread was aimed at any particular person, I don't think you'd even be asking about .235 in the first place. Since you mentioned .235 and asked for chimes, I chimed in - mainly to remove any FUD related to .235 and everyone going all Chicken Little about how .235 spells the end of your phone.

I've had .235 almost a month now, and there is no way I would go back to GB for a substandard OS with a substandard user experience. it's not just my opinion, but it is the actual guts of the operating system itself that I'm talking about. It would be akin to me saying "I don't want to upgrade to windows 7 and would rather stick on XP 32bit, even though my computer is a Core i7 with 8 GB of RAM. My point is that forcing the BIONIC to run substandard OS with a host of problems rather than a newer, more optimized and definitely more stable OS, is unfathomable.

I'm not talking fast only, again, please read what I write in all my posts more carefully. You don't want to give up Firefox - understandable. However, you're not giving up the entire Webtop experience, it is still there, and it is more stable and works a lot better. PLUS, you don't need a lapdock to use it - a simple HDMI cable and an HDMI monitor / TV work just as well - so no need to carry around the lapdock anymore.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm encroaching on this thread, but the FUD needs to be dispelled.
 
johnlgalt said:
Stable? ICS leaks are more stable than GB, b/c the connectivity radios work much better than they ever have in GB - Every GB leak / OTA / Update has had its issues with connectivity, but ICS .232 / .235 (both of which use the same radios, BTW) are astounding in their ability to keep the data connection up unless your area is truly having a data blackout.

Webtop on ICS is much smoother, and works the way it was intended - with or without a lapdock. Hook it up to your TV, it works. You do lose Fx, which is annoying me as much as it does you, but I'd rather have a smoother overall experience than force a choppy signal in order to use my favorite browser.

Finally, if this thread was aimed at any particular person, I don't think you'd even be asking about .235 in the first place. Since you mentioned .235 and asked for chimes, I chimed in - mainly to remove any FUD related to .235 and everyone going all Chicken Little about how .235 spells the end of your phone.

I've had .235 almost a month now, and there is no way I would go back to GB for a substandard OS with a substandard user experience. it's not just my opinion, but it is the actual guts of the operating system itself that I'm talking about. It would be akin to me saying "I don't want to upgrade to windows 7 and would rather stick on XP 32bit, even though my computer is a Core i7 with 8 GB of RAM. My point is that forcing the BIONIC to run substandard OS with a host of problems rather than a newer, more optimized and definitely more stable OS, is unfathomable.

I'm not talking fast only, again, please read what I write in all my posts more carefully. You don't want to give up Firefox - understandable. However, you're not giving up the entire Webtop experience, it is still there, and it is more stable and works a lot better. PLUS, you don't need a lapdock to use it - a simple HDMI cable and an HDMI monitor / TV work just as well - so no need to carry around the lapdock anymore.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm encroaching on this thread, but the FUD needs to be dispelled.
Click to expand...

So far, just from my personal experience, I have had no stability issues, especially since I did the 905 update. Yeah, firefox is a little laggy.... But I truly enjoy the entire webtop experience the way it is built on gingerbread.

This article is not aimed at one person, just those that are like minded. I understand that versions of ICS below .235 are reversible. I didn't want to alarm folks and create a panic with this thread, I just suggested hanging back from the official release (Or any non reversible) of ICS of they like their phone the way it is now.

I apologize if I misunderstood you.
 
dautley said:
It's your phone and your preference, run whatever you want on it but I believe the overwhelming majority of us are looking forward to ICS.
Click to expand...

Exactly. :) This thread was created for the minority. Some of us have had sour experiences with major updates on every phone. I just want it to work, that, it is doing, working to my satisfaction. Any update that is irreversible is a red flag to me to excercise caution. :)

I having nothing against anyone wanting to take the plunge with ICS, I try to live and let live. :) It's all about the individual user experience and preference. While my sentiments may not be echoed by the majority, I'm quite sure someone came across this article on google that is not a member and holds the same sentiments as myself. :)
 
johnlgalt said:
Chime #3: Going back to GB is pointless - once the release is final, you will not be able to go back if you install it.

Chime #4: You are not stuck on .235, b/c we have a method to move forward from .235 (to the next leak if there is one, or els to the final if it is different from .235).
Click to expand...

Number 3 is an educated guess and you might be right. On the other hand ...

Number 4 is an educated guess and you might be right. On the other hand ...

Motorola and Verizon have done some pretty screwy things in the time I have been tracking them. There are no guarantees.

They might revert back off their 235 approach because common sense crept in.

They may make it impossible to go from 235 to the OTA just for the hell of it.

Short form ... if you are looking for guarantees wait until the OTA is released and some other people have actually installed it and report the "new stupid limitations" (like Droid X ... can't revert to earlier versions and can't root).

... Thom
 
Actually, this thread would make more sense if you could give a factual account of having used the ICS leak and comparing it and having objective review of performance and hits and misses.

The only thing that actually holds true in all you've said is the lack of FX in WebTop. Everything else, from stability issues to connectivity to other issues is FUD.

Also, FWIW - the update from 5.5.886 (the original software on the BIONIC 11 months ago) to 5.7.893 was an irreversible update.

The update from 5.7.893 to 5.9.902 was also irreversible. So, you've got a phone that either 1) already had been irreversibly upgraded to the latest software twice, 2) Have phones that have been irreversibly upgrade to the latest software once , or 3) have phones that have never been upgraded b/c they came with the same software from the factory (and I doubt that as manufacturing for this phone ceased well before .902 came out).

Since you have the ability to revert your phone on all leaks except .235, it would have been easy to test and see. There is no risk associated at all, and you don't even need to root the phone to try a leak, nor to revert back to GB.

You're obviously welcome to stay where you are. It is a matter of opinion. My point is that you're basing your opinion on what you've read,without any real experience - IOW, someone said something and you believed them. I find that to be a very poor way to form my own opinions.
 
Thom Little said:
Number 3 is an educated guess and you might be right. On the other hand ...

Number 4 is an educated guess and you might be right. On the other hand ...

Motorola and Verizon have done some pretty screwy things in the time I have been tracking them. There are no guarantees.

They might revert back off their 235 approach because common sense crept in.

They may make it impossible to go from 235 to the OTA just for the hell of it.

Short form ... if you are looking for guarantees wait until the OTA is released and some other people have actually installed it and report the "new stupid limitations" (like Droid X ... can't revert to earlier versions and can't root).

... Thom
Click to expand...

Thom, what is your droid x running? I just sold mine and it was running rooted gingerbread. Did Verizon come up with some other update after gingerbread that I'm unaware of? After I did the two part root install of gingerbread, I stopped the phone from receiving updates.


Sorry to hear about your droid x woes.... I had mine as well. The gingerbread update broke my phone. I reverted back to froyo and installed the two gingerbread files from droid life and somehow that method cleared up the problems.
 
Thom Little said:
Number 3 is an educated guess and you might be right. On the other hand ...

Number 4 is an educated guess and you might be right. On the other hand ...

Motorola and Verizon have done some pretty screwy things in the time I have been tracking them. There are no guarantees.

They might revert back off their 235 approach because common sense crept in.

They may make it impossible to go from 235 to the OTA just for the hell of it.

Short form ... if you are looking for guarantees wait until the OTA is released and some other people have actually installed it and report the "new stupid limitations" (like Droid X ... can't revert to earlier versions and can't root).

... Thom
Click to expand...

Sorry, but #3 is not a guess, it is how it is. Same way we could not revert from 5.7.893 now 5.9.902. There are two different cdt.bin file security checker out in the wild made by developers, and they both clearly show that the security level has been increased again, and that this time reversion will be impossible.

As for #4, it is a guess only in that we do not have a way to test the method on the BIONIC b/c a newer update / leak has not yet been released. However, it is the same method used by RAZR folks in exactly the same predicament when a new leak did appear. So, we're well above a 95% confidence level in asserting that you will be able to go forward.

They might also decide to send out a secret signal that makes all BIONICs unusable. And, TBH, the probability of either of your proposed scenarios occurring is the same as this one.

If this were the first update for the BIONIC, it's be much more up in the air. it's not , and we have a pattern / history we can refer back to and see, not to mention the entire ICS upgrade path for the RAZR, which is very very closely related to the BIONIC in terms of hardware.
 
johnlgalt said:
Actually, this thread would make more sense if you could give a factual account of having used the ICS leak and comparing it and having objective review of performance and hits and misses.

The only thing that actually holds true in all you've said is the lack of FX in WebTop. Everything else, from stability issues to connectivity to other issues is FUD.

Also, FWIW - the update from 5.5.886 (the original software on the BIONIC 11 months ago) to 5.7.893 was an irreversible update.

The update from 5.7.893 to 5.9.902 was also irreversible. So, you've got a phone that either 1) already had been irreversibly upgraded to the latest software twice, 2) Have phones that have been irreversibly upgrade to the latest software once , or 3) have phones that have never been upgraded b/c they came with the same software from the factory (and I doubt that as manufacturing for this phone ceased well before .902 came out).

Since you have the ability to revert your phone on all leaks except .235, it would have been easy to test and see. There is no risk associated at all, and you don't even need to root the phone to try a leak, nor to revert back to GB.

You're obviously welcome to stay where you are. It is a matter of opinion. My point is that you're basing your opinion on what you've read,without any real experience - IOW, someone said something and you believed them. I find that to be a very poor way to form my own opinions.
Click to expand...

Hey, it's all good. I'm not personally attacking ICS, again, this thread was designed for those that are happy with their device as-is and only do some minor tinkering. I was going to try an earlier leak just out of curiousity, I figured "What's the point?" If it doesn't have the same webtop, I have no use for it. Again, the phone is functioning exactly how I want it to.

If people want to try the leaks, God bless them. But I stand by what I said in this thread and have been open and humble admitting I could be wrong on some counts.

I still recommend for people whom are satisfied with their bionic the way it is to just hang back and watch the forums for other's experiences. That's all. :)
 
I agree with your assessment of what will likely happen. My point was ... and still is ... Motorola/Verizon have done some pretty screwy things in the past and if you are looking for a guarantee you will need to wait.

You could have said in your original message that there was a 95% certainty that (fill in the blank) was going to happen.

... Thom
 
But since that time we've figure out how to check for thees happenings before thousands of people install the update. The cdt,.bin security checker is one of those ways - DL the update, extract it (and on our computers, Thom, you know that extraction takes all of 5 seconds, and the DL takes all of a minute or two) and run the file checker app.

Poof. You know right away. No install required.

My point for this thread is that I don't mind suggesting waiting when ICS is released b/c you want Fx on Webtop - but to say the new webtop does not function correctly, or that your phone is stable enough without having used the any new ICS leak is fallacious argumentation at its best. That is why I keep saying it is FUD. That is exactly what it is.

So, bottom line: If you want FX in webtop, don' upgrade to ICS at all.

If you want the most stable experience, install .232 and try it and see what is the most stable.

If you want better connectivity, install .232 and try it and see which OS retains better connectivity.

If you want better speed, install .232 and try it and see which OS retains better speed.

If you want absolutely nothing to change at all, don't ever install ICS.
 
Thom Little said:
I agree with your assessment of what will likely happen. My point was ... and still is ... Motorola/Verizon have done some pretty screwy things in the past and if you are looking for a guarantee you will need to wait.

You could have said in your original message that there was a 95% certainty that (fill in the blank) was going to happen.

... Thom
Click to expand...

And while they did these things to the DX they did not to the RAZR, which is almost a twin of the BIONIC in terms of Hardware.

Plus, you do realize that things like the FXZ files used to revert to stock come directly from Moto employees, as do most of the other information that is not FUD, right?
 
johnlgalt said:
But since that time we've figure out how to check for thees happenings before thousands of people install the update. The cdt,.bin security checker is one of those ways - DL the update, extract it (and on our computers, Thom, you know that extraction takes all of 5 seconds, and the DL takes all of a minute or two) and run the file checker app.

Poof. You know right away. No install required.

My point for this thread is that I don't mind suggesting waiting when ICS is released b/c you want Fx on Webtop - but to say the new webtop does not function correctly, or that your phone is stable enough without having used the any new ICS leak is fallacious argumentation at its best. That is why I keep saying it is FUD. That is exactly what it is.

So, bottom line: If you want FX in webtop, don' upgrade to ICS at all.

If you want the most stable experience, install .232 and try it and see what is the most stable.

If you want better connectivity, install .232 and try it and see which OS retains better connectivity.

If you want better speed, install .232 and try it and see which OS retains better speed.

If you want absolutely nothing to change at all, don't ever install ICS.
Click to expand...

I never said the new webtop is unstable, it would be an erroneous statement since I have not tried it.

My connectivity is solid.

No reboots, force closes, decent battery life, no need for more speed when the phone is fast enough to suit my needs= Stability.

I already said I wasn't going to install ICS.

Not everyone has connection/stability issues that has a Bionic. Those who do? Well, maybe the update is a chance worth taking, or like you said, try a reversible ICS such as .232

From what I understand, even if you're not meaning to, you are discounting my definition of stability. It isn't just webtop I'm concerned about, I'm also concerned that there is a real possibility of such an update wrecking a percectly functioning phone.

Some people love speed or think they need more of it, some do need more speed if they run more intensive apps. I bet there's a lot of users out there that are novice tinkerers and really have no real purpose trying to up the speed of their phone when in their eyes the phone is fine just the way it is. :)
 
Well, since the title of your thread does say "May" I'll just have to agree to disagree with you. In my eyes you're only conjecturing about your stability without seeing if there really is a difference. But that is also what your thread title implies, so we'll leave it at pure conjecture.
 
johnlgalt said:
But since that time we've figure out how to check for thees happenings before thousands of people install the update. The cdt,.bin security checker is one of those ways - DL the update, extract it (and on our computers, Thom, you know that extraction takes all of 5 seconds, and the DL takes all of a minute or two) and run the file checker app.

Poof. You know right away. No install required.

My point for this thread is that I don't mind suggesting waiting when ICS is released b/c you want Fx on Webtop - but to say the new webtop does not function correctly, or that your phone is stable enough without having used the any new ICS leak is fallacious argumentation at its best. That is why I keep saying it is FUD. That is exactly what it is.

So, bottom line: If you want FX in webtop, don' upgrade to ICS at all.

If you want the most stable experience, install .232 and try it and see what is the most stable.

If you want better connectivity, install .232 and try it and see which OS retains better connectivity.

If you want better speed, install .232 and try it and see which OS retains better speed.

If you want absolutely nothing to change at all, don't ever install ICS.
Click to expand...

For my part in what you are referencing ...

We now have figured out how to check now so we won't get nailed by the change that was introduced in the Droid X. That is great. Unfortunately I WAS NAILED.

I am not recommending that anyone not install ICS. I have never installed a leak on my Bionic and it can be used as a current benchmark for an unmodified un-root-ed Bionic if/when a problem occurs in some other area.

If someone is going to make a statement about how something will operate in the future ... I have always asked my staff the same question when they made it ... "will you stake your life on it?" ... if the answer is yes I go with their assertion. Otherwise ...

Some people got nailed with the Droid X. Other people will get nailed with some other new change that is beneficial to Motor la/Version (primarily Verizon) that just happens.

The ONLY point I was making was ... there is a difference between 100% and 95%. There is only one way to guarantee 100% in this environment ... wait for the OTA and then wait for the reports that say it is non destructive.

... Thom
 
johnlgalt said:
And while they did these things to the DX they did not to the RAZR, which is almost a twin of the BIONIC in terms of Hardware.

Plus, you do realize that things like the FXZ files used to revert to stock come directly from Moto employees, as do most of the other information that is not FUD, right?
Click to expand...

For your first point ... yes I did realize that ... this is an indication of just how arbitrary and capricious the Motorola/Verizon decision process is. It is impossible to predict with 100% accuracy. If they came out with a Droid X update that corrected the problem I would agree with you. I think hell will freeze over before that correction ever comes out.

Yes I do realize who is creating the leaks. I also assume that since the leaks keep happening that Motorola wants them to happen. They realize a wonderful "system" they have of slipping stuff out to the public with no guarantees and it costs them nothing other than reading the reports.

... Thom
 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion... however until i installed .232 i all but hated my lapdock and thought it a waste of money... since going to ics i LOVE the lapdock!! Havent tried to install firefox on it but who cares with ics you can run Chrome and i feel its better...

-Corey
 
Thom Little said:
For my part in what you are referencing ...

We now have figured out how to check now so we won't get nailed by the change that was introduced in the Droid X. That is great. Unfortunately I WAS NAILED.

I am not recommending that anyone not install ICS. I have never installed a leak on my Bionic and it can be used as a current benchmark for an unmodified un-root-ed Bionic if/when a problem occurs in some other area.

If someone is going to make a statement about how something will operate in the future ... I have always asked my staff the same question when they made it ... "will you stake your life on it?" ... if the answer is yes I go with their assertion. Otherwise ...

Some people got nailed with the Droid X. Other people will get nailed with some other new change that is beneficial to Motor la/Version (primarily Verizon) that just happens.

The ONLY point I was making was ... there is a difference between 100% and 95%. There is only one way to guarantee 100% in this environment ... wait for the OTA and then wait for the reports that say it is non destructive.

... Thom
Click to expand...


The fallacy of this argument is my entire point. As you say, there is no 100% guarantee. Even if you wait for the OTA and reports are that It is not destructive, you won't know if it is destructive in you're phone or not until you install it on your phone. As you already know, you have a multitude of variables such as each individual hardware component, the end user, the software they have installed....

And likewise, with every leak up to and including .235 we have already made reports as to if each is destructive or not, whether it can be rooted or not, etc. It'swhat the community does, take those chances to ascertain the status of these leaks before letting then run rampant in the wild specifically because of the stunts they pulled with devices like the DX.

I've never advocated that anyone install an untested leak. However we started seeing leaks over a month ago, and every leak out there has been thoroughly tested by the same people who will make the destructiveness reports on the final build as well.




Thom Little said:
For your first point ... yes I did realize that ... this is an indication of just how arbitrary and capricious the Motorola/Verizon decision process is. It is impossible to predict with 100% accuracy. If they came out with a Droid X update that corrected the problem I would agree with you. I think hell will freeze over before that correction ever comes out.

Yes I do realize who is creating the leaks. I also assume that since the leaks keep happening that Motorola wants them to happen. They realize a wonderful "system" they have of slipping stuff out to the public with no guarantees and it costs them nothing other than reading the reports.

... Thom
Click to expand...

I could only agree with your capriciousness statement if those devices were concurrently on the market. They are not, but the BIONIC and RAZR are. And, even if they do pull off this grossly negligent about face and try to lock us out, us pre-release testers will be there to report (as we have been doing for all the leaks, as noted above) when that happens, hopefully before people start installing it.

As for your assumption, i do not assume that, b/c the leaks are by individuals, not in an officially sanctioned manner by the company / corporation. It took a lot of work to get the 905FXZ file, and coincidentally (or not) it was mentioned, obtained, and then released the same time when i bricked my phone trying to revert it from .235.
 
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