18 Kids and 9 Others Shot Dead in CT.

[PrinceCorwin]

From reading this thread (and many others like it), I am amazed at how the free people of this country continue to be slowly subverted into blatant socialist ideology by the hollow promise of a utopian society to be realized by the systematic submittal to oppression and regulation. Sometimes I feel like everyone has a case of political Stockholm Syndrome.

By the way... :ditto: to pbf98 (couldn't have said it better myself... just wanted to add "Give me liberty or give me DEATH!"...Patrick Henry)

 

[ElasticNinja]

From reading this thread (and many others like it), I am amazed at how the free people of this country continue to be slowly subverted into blatant socialist ideology by the hollow promise of a utopian society to be realized by the systematic submittal to oppression and regulation. Sometimes I feel like everyone has a case of political Stockholm Syndrome.

I really think that American's have no idea what socialism is. Shame you guys didnt have the specter of USSR rule hanging over you guys, might have give ye a clearer picture. Americans think my country is socialist because we have a socialist healthcare system. Its two-tier, but it is not like the private universal systems of other countries. That does not mean this is a socialist country. It is one of the least socialist in Europe, besides the new states from behind the old Iron Curtain.

 

[PrinceCorwin]

I really think that American's have no idea what socialism is.

No, most of us don't know what it truly entails. I personally do but I and others like me are few compared to the mind muddled masses. Most of them think that socialism and communism are characteristics of overtly evil and oppressive governments as seen in Hollywood movies. They don't realize they are being led down that road in subtle baby steps. Before long it may be too late to turn back without a revolution. But most undercover socialist would just smirk at that comment and say something like... "What a nut!"
And actually, I hope they are right... I'd rather be crazy than oppressed or enslaved.

And another thing, why do people so readily agree to have something outlawed when they have no personal interest in them (i.e. guns). I mean, I have absolutely no use for game consoles (PS3, Xbox, etc...) and I DO think they contribute to the poor acedemic acheivement of our youth but I would NEVER, for ANY reason agree to outlaw said products simply because certain people choose to use them irresponsibly. Know what I mean, Vern?

 

[PrinceCorwin]

I'd like to reiterate my sorrow and concern for the victims and their families of Newtown. Stay strong and stay free. Please don't let the unequaled trajedy inspire the kind of anger and resentment that can lead one to unknowingly join the socialist movement and seek to satisfy their need for vengeance on the rest of society. I can't imagine what you went or are going through and any negative emotions you be experiencing are COMPLETELY justified and understandable. So, again, stay strong.. and stay free.

On another Newtown note, what do you guys (AFers, that is) think about the people who were (and are, I am sure) running the net scam by requesting relief contributions for the Newtown victims and then keeping the money?

Just in case you haven't read about it:
Woman charged in Newtown fraud reportedly sought cash for Sandy victims | 7online.com

 

[ElasticNinja]

No, most of us don't know what it truly entails. I personally do but I and others like me are few compared to the mind muddled masses. Most of them think that socialism and communism are characteristics of overtly evil and oppressive governments as seen in Hollywood movies. They don't realize they are being led down that road in subtle baby steps. Before long it may be too late to turn back without a revolution. But most undercover socialist would just smirk at that comment and say something like... "What a nut!"
And actually, I hope they are right... I'd rather be crazy than oppressed or enslaved.

And another thing, why do people so readily agree to have something outlawed when they have no personal interest in them (i.e. guns). I mean, I have absolutely no use for game consoles (PS3, Xbox, etc...) and I DO think they contribute to the poor acedemic acheivement of our youth but I would NEVER, for ANY reason agree to outlaw said products simply because certain people choose to use them irresponsibly. Know what I mean, Vern?

You see, I dont see how one can truly claim we need a revolution to avoid socialism when we are the furthest away from it since the mid 1800s.

Socialism is a dead duck. People wont vote to have washing machine manufacturers nationalised purely for some ideal. They dont want an entirely state run economy. The most socialised economies in the world have government spending at maybe 45-50% of GDP. Thats is not socialism.

Across the world, socialist policies have been veered away from. India, has abandoned its failed experiment with it, thanks to the outside intervention of the IMF. In America, the idea of raising taxes is met with howls. Places like Denmark and Sweden are extremely business friendly, tailoring their economies around it.

Socialism is where the government controls the economy almost in its entirety. Its where once you go above a set number of employees or sales you get nationalised. The US is not heading there. The world is not.

One can have socialist systems without a socialist state. Most countries do, to varied extents.

 

[zuben el genub]

Do media vultures perpetuate mass shootings? - Salon.com

Just why are people so damn nosy? Are their lives that freaking dull that they have to feed on the misery of others?

About guns - I don't like the powerful ones, but I wouldn't mind having a small shotgun and a load of rock salt to nail those damn mulies. I think there should be a much longer waiting period to buy one. If it was more difficult, then maybe the careless idiots that leave guns where kids can get at them or the guns can be stolen would be a little more careful. The guns couldn't be replaced on just a whim.

Stick a chip in any new guns. The gun can be tracked at any time. Legal and careful users should have no problem. The hunters who blast away at anything that moves, domestic livestock, other hunters should have a problem. There will be black boxes in all new cars - why not chip guns?

 

[copestag]

why not put chips in our arms ...... then we can be tracked at any time also...... think of the lives saved and the crimes stopped..... especially kidnapping

the law abiding and careful citizens should have no problem with this

just those trying to avoid the law

we will have black boxes in all new cars.... why not chip babies?

 

[zuben el genub]

It will be coming to that the way things are heading now. Someone will have the idea of chipping kids to keep them safe from pedophiles. Or finding them on first missing report instead of weeks or years to even find the body.

 

[copestag]

and when the time comes that we all must have chips put in our body...... and we have to maintain detailed records of everything we do from eating a chip to going to the bathroom....... someone will say its necessary........ and many will agree

and none of that will solve the problems

then what will we do

hows that quote go?

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me. - Martin Niem

 

[Bob Maxey]

People vote for things that sound good on paper and they think they understand it will help them because a talking head said it will help them. Then, when it starts to affect them personally and individually, they suddenly get it. In other words, when the rubber meets the road. They do not understand that there are always unanticipated causes and effects with some of the things they vote for.


We might pass a law to

 

[Bob Maxey]

It will be coming to that the way things are heading now. Someone will have the idea of chipping kids to keep them safe from pedophiles. Or finding them on first missing report instead of weeks or years to even find the body.

Not sure. We do chip our dogs, so perhaps yes, I am wrong.

Can't you do this already? Not sure, but it seems the tech is in place and if putting a chip in your beagle is possible, so is putting one in your kid. Then the bad people will find a way to jam the signals, perhaps.

A chip might make it easy for bad people to find your kid. If it is available and something bad does happen, the public will demand to know why you did not chip your kid. If the pedophiles find your kid because you chipped him or her, they will demand your head for allowing it to happen by chipping your kid.

I would like chipped kids so I will know where to avoid. I could find kid free places to eat.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Our founding fathers disagreed. Our country started by overthrowing a tyrannical government. Just saying.

However, back then, if you were an atheist, well, good luck to you and your kin. You had better have a belief in a God that was acceptable to the local populous or you were likely screwed. You better be in church on Sunday or No Soup for You! Saying that you had a different view or saying there is no proof of the existence of God and you might be crucified.

So much for that whole freedom of speech thing.

Admitting you did not believe in God meant you were likely crazy. Same view many hold to this day. Many escaped other countries because of religious persecution and arrived here where practicing certain beliefs were not really allowed, either. A moot point, perhaps, because these folks were believers for the most part.
Certainly, the United States is a place where those with different religious views could feel safe. That is why millions of people arrived here,

 

[Bob Maxey]

why not put chips in our arms ...... then we can be tracked at any time also...... think of the lives saved and the crimes stopped..... especially kidnapping

the law abiding and careful citizens should have no problem with this

just those trying to avoid the law

we will have black boxes in all new cars.... why not chip babies?

It could very well be a grand idea. But like the old New Coke, Salt and Vinegar Potatoe Chips and Justin Bieber, we often learn good ideas, well, aren't.

I am ok with it if there is an Android app for that.

Parents could track their kids and freak out when they enter a bad neighborhood. They could make sure their little ones are in school and I could monitor kids entering my property and head them off at the pass.

I do not know if it is good or bad. Good perhaps if it is not mandatory. Bad if it is.

FYI: my car still has a tube radio, so I do not suffer the chips in the car thing.

 

[PrinceCorwin]

Hey Bob... you got a little off subject with that second to last post dontcha think? There's a whole 'nother thread for that subject... just sayin.

I mean, how did we go from mass murder and gun control to religious freedom and chipped kids?

 

[PrinceCorwin]

I do not know if it is good or bad. Good perhaps if it is not mandatory. Bad if it is.

Kinda like the choice of whether or not to have a firearm in the home. I totally agree that mandatory regulation of what the government deems safe and for the good of the people should generally be rejected. You give em an inch and they'll take a mile. Even if they only take an inch, those inches eventually add up to a mile.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Stick a chip in any new guns. The gun can be tracked at any time. Legal and careful users should have no problem. The hunters who blast away at anything that moves, domestic livestock, other hunters should have a problem. There will be black boxes in all new cars - why not chip guns?

Well, there might be a way to remove the chips and it is just one more little piece falling into place under the guise of protecting children with the goal being to take our rights away. It is one more step towards making gun ownership difficult. If I want a gun with no chip to commit crimes, no problem. The store might only sell chipped guns but no such requirements when I buy it illegally on the street.

Keep and bear arms is fairly easy to grasp. No rules in the Constitution about size. As soon as we decide a gun past a certain size must be banned means eventually all guns will be banned. That is the dream of many people. No guns, period.

Please due tell . . . what do you mean by a powerful gun? Not sure what that means. Still not sure what an 'assault weapon" is, either. People react to scary looking weapons and seem to forget that any gun is deadly in the hands of a maniac.

I like a 22 cal. Cheap to shoot. And it is deadly, too. Should I not be able to buy a 10 gauge shotgun? Not sure if you know what that is, but as shotguns go, it is a fairly 'big gun.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Kinda like the choice of whether or not to have a firearm in the home. I totally agree that mandatory regulation of what the government deems safe and for the good of the people should generally be rejected. You give em an inch and they'll take a mile. Even if they only take an inch, those inches eventually add up to a mile.

Here is the problem. The right to own a gun is not just a law, like no paring in a school zone or no salt shakers in your favorite NYC eatery. It is a fundamental right. Not a good idea to be changed on a whim, but a RIGHT! Anything that tramples that fundamental right should scare people. And the Constitution is NOT a living, breathing document. Such documents are useless. Like a written sales contract with terms that can be changed as you see fit.

When we accept banning guns or making them hard to get means those that make the laws will have no problem with curtailing our other rights.

Consider an outright ban on guns; a turn in your guns kinda law. SCOTUS sides with the state and they refuse to hear the case. Possible with a liberal SCOTUS and admittedly not going to happen; this is just a thought experiment. Already, you see laws that chip away at a basic right. The camel head under the tent sort of thing.

People that hate guns applaud.

Then a state decides to eliminate some forms of free speech by passing laws regarding the Internet. Or they say you cannot speak badly of President Michelle Obama or Malia Ann Obama 8 years later or Sasha Obama 8 years after that. Perhaps a new law prevents selling books that are mean spirited or nasty. Or you can no longer protest something.

Suddenly, those that hate guns are bat crap happy that they have been finally banned are upset like hell that their freedom of speech is suddenly gone. They are pleased several courts took our guns away, telling us the Constitution is a

 

[Bob Maxey]

Hey Bob... you got a little off subject with that second to last post dontcha think? There's a whole 'nother thread for that subject... just sayin.

I mean, how did we go from mass murder and gun control to religious freedom and chipped kids?

Well, at least I did not invoke Adolph Hitler, so I get three points for that. Given enough time, Hitler will always be invoked at some point, in all threads, even the cooking ones.

Are you new here? Do you not know that I hijack threads?.

Regardless of the thread subject, I only commented on the chipped kids because someone brought it up, so blame the person that brought it up. I can only work with the material you all provide. As I understand the thread, chips will stop the mass murders if we chip our kids, our guns and I suggest we also chip our Bibles.

Mass murder discussions always turns to talk of more gun control. Religious freedom is in the Construction as are gun rights, and the right wing uber conservative gun nuts like me, see chipped kids as bearing the mark of the Devil, which will obviously increase violence. So chips mean violence, see how it is all tied together?

1- Murders mean more gun control
2- Gun control means ignoring the Constitution
3- Ignoring the Constitution means we can chip our kids with impunity
4- The chipping process will invoke the devil
5- Invoking the devil means more violence
6- This means banning bibles to remove the devil from our lives in an effort to reduce violence
7- Banning the Bible means freedom of the press is gone
8- Banning freedom of the press means stabbings will increase
9- More stabbings means more knife control laws
10- Our country is lost forever and the Taliban takes over and bans alcohol
11- No alcohol means increased violence
12- With no knives or guns, crimes will be perputated with baseball bats
13- Baseball bats will be banned
14- No more World Series

So be warned: chip a kid and baseball is lost forever; it is your choice. After the locusts leave us and the rivers run red with wine and tears, they will take our last freedom away. Probably Adolph's fault if you ask me.

Bob Maxey - King Of Convolution

 

[Bob Maxey]

Good point. However, if by some dumb luck someone with a gun is standing in the sae area as the maniac and has time to draw the weapon, he may be able to take out the bad guy before too much damage is done.

Here in Utah, we have a shopping center called Trolley Square. There was a violent incident and the police arrived. They warned people to stay away. The cops arrived and all they knew is someone with a gun was hurting people.

The police did not know what was going on and they did not want to shoot an innocent person who might be there to help.

I think that idea must be part of all such discussions. People with guns could stop the insanity, but when the police arrive on the scene, they do not know who is who or what is going on.

Perhaps a police officer can chime in. I think in such cases, it can be a real fear because the police do not know the players. Eventually a cop will shoot someone trying to help and it will be one more reason to ban guns, in the eyes of many.

I recall reading something about a Russian case many decades ago. As I recall, there was a fire set by the bad people. As family members and help arrived, a gunman started shooting. The fire was apparently set specifically to bring scared people to the fire in an effort to help and they were shot.

This happened in 1920 or so as I recall.

 

[Bob Maxey]

the irony being how strict pennsylvania is on guns and heres a guy with a gun? or the irony being that if they werent so very strict that guy would have been stopped within 5 mins?

Yup indeed.

Some things have always struck me as rather odd.

We ban certain guns and decent people that could make a difference cannot carry. I am reminded of the diner in Texas. I saw interviews with a woman that lost much of her family who might have stopped the carriage but Texas law (at the time) had strict laws that prevented her from packing. Her gun was in her car.

In this case, gun laws=the slaughter of the innocent. Rather ironic, I think. Sadly so.
We create gun free zones and still, kids are killed or hurt. We pass law after law and the laws do little good, if any. Reporters call semi-automatic weapons automatics all the while, forgetting that full autos are legal to own and there are very few crimes perpetrated by lawfully registered Tommy Gun owners.

They whine about gang gun crimes and say we need to ban guns but forget that gang bangers seem to like the lack of guns in the hands of decent folk.

I

 

[pbf98]

If you want a fully automatic weapon--a machine gun, in other words--you can buy one. Not illegally, but with the full blessing of the government. Not sure many crimes have been committed with a machine gun. I mean a legally purchased

 

[ElasticNinja]

On a side note, has anyone heard of the lawsuit that is being put against sandy hook elementary school? I heard of it over the weekend the school is being sued for $100,000 for lack of safety measures... HOW? if the court rules in favor of the plaintiff that is ridiculous.

Thats ridiculous if its true. My primary school had zero anti-massacre safety measures, no training, no metal doors, no armed guards, no drones etc. The idea of them getting sued due to someone coming in and shooting up the place seems mad.

My christmas present from my parents this year was 38 revolver that is concealable being that I have my permit to carry in my state.

Getting a Christmas present of a revolver? All seems a bit Republika Srpksa circa 1999.

 

[PrinceCorwin]

Well, at least I did not invoke Adolph Hitler, so I get three points for that. Given enough time, Hitler will always be invoked at some point, in all threads, even the cooking ones.

Are you new here? Do you not know that I hijack threads?.

No, you didn't invoke AH then, but you just did. lol. And yes I am a little new here. But no offense meant and none taken. I'm pretty much on your side.

I just wish we could break the barrier of the OTHER folks who just can't seem to get it that more laws and restrictions only affect those that are willing to abide by them (and I'm not afraid of those kind of people). Like you mentioned in your posts, illegal guns will ALWAYS be available to people who wish to acquire them. Automatic weapons are illegal and I could have one by sundown if I truly wished. If we chip the guns, people will simply buy non-chipped guns on the street.

And, really, who cares if a gun is chipped... how will that stop someone from using it to murder someone, especially if they plan to commit suicide at the same time? Don't think I'm preaching to the choir, Bob. I know you've stated most if this already. I'm just trying to reiterate it to the muddled masses. But actually, I really don't think any of them will ever get it. The thirst for vengeance and the need to place blame, especially when the perpetrators end up dead and beyond the grasp of social justice, are extremely blinding factors.

 

[pbf98]

Oh my bad, not $100,000... $100 Million... Newtown Lawsuit: Lawyer For School Shooting Survivor Says $100 Million Claim Is About Security

What is the world coming to?

The lawyer claims that its not about the money, but its about improving the security. I'd say the security was pretty good, a lot better than the elementary school I went to. There were no locked doors, people were able to walk in and out freely... My high school on the other hand, we had an armed sheriff deputy walking the halls due to reoccurring bomb threats. He is still there even though the bomb threats stopped the year I was a senior.

If its not about money, then why make it a 100 Million dollar case?

 

[rootbrain]

It's really, really horrible. A co-worker did point out to me a simple fact. How many kindergartners are there in America today? And we have 18 die in a tragedy. Statistically speaking it's insignificant. Those really are the cold hard facts. As tragic as it is, it's statistically insignificant.

I don't know what the solution is. It's certainly not more laws. It's already illegal to bring a gun on to school property. That law didn't stop this at all. I don't know what other laws would've prevented this.

I really think the problem is the culture we live in. We live in an extremely violent culture that glorifies violence. It shouldn't be too surprising that people would lash out with violence since the culture we live in legitimizes that as a valid response.

Elimination of that "Gun Free Zone" bullchit and allowing, on a voluntary basis, teachers, faculty, and other employees of the public school systems all over the country to train, qualify and carry conceled weapons.

We all know this was not a sane rational person. So where does an insane, irrational person, bent on "making a name" go? Wherever he sees a "Gun Free Zone" sign, knowing it will be 10 minutes AT LEAST until someone can shoot back.

Remember Norway? Very strict gun contol laws. Didn't stop their shooter, who had nearly an HOUR AND A HALF, before the "authorities" could decide what action to take: 2011 Norway attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, Conneticut is one of the MOST stringent gun control states, right up there with D. Feinsteins California. And to say it did no good is stating the obvious.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/16/george-will-tougher-gun-laws-assault-weapons-ban-wont-help-video/

I won't be buying any new Android devices for awhile. Allocating disposable income now in defense of the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, purchase of ammunition and accessories for my hunting and sporting rifles and my defensive concealed carry weapon of choice. Already upgraded my NRA membership to lifetime instead of year to year.

I'll see you on those forums, been a pleasure. Will check back occasionally.