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18 Kids and 9 Others Shot Dead in CT.

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Thechidz said:
all of the right-wing wackos are not getting it. We don't need to ban guns but we do need to ban automatic and semiautomatic weapons. There is NO good reason to have them in the public's hands.
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Just in case anyone insn't fully versed in U.S history... the right to bear arms was installed as a protection from an oppressive government, not sadistic criminals. But I think that most people today don't think of that as being a plausible possibility. I'm not really sure why though. Every single world power since the dawn of time has at some point turned against the liberty and good will of their citizens. It was written into the Constitution as an integral part of our "checks and balances" system.
 
PrinceCorwin said:
Just in case anyone insn't fully versed in U.S history... the right to bear arms was installed as a protection from an oppressive government, not sadistic criminals. But I think that most people today don't think of that as being a plausible possibility. I'm not really sure why though. Every single world power since the dawn of time has at some point turned against the liberty and good will of their citizens. It was written into the Constitution as an integral part of our "checks and balances" system.
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I personally don't think another revolution is in the future but you never know. And that's the point. You never know. Better safe than sorry.


Or better gun crazy than dead before the fighting starts? :confused:
 
copestag said:
As far as knife violence as opposed to gun violence...... as has already been pointed out.. the same day this tragedy occurred.... someone in Asia stabbed 22 children...... up close and personal.

The homicide rates havent changed dramatically in Scotland since the gun ban 20 years ago...... theyve just changed weapons.

In Scotland 2/3 of homicides are committed with a knife.... so I agree thats your current problem....... are they trying to ban knives in Scotland?
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Didn't know about the incident in Asia, but I still stand by the fact that it is harder for that kind of assault to happen, against younger children it will of course be easier.

And there are already laws against carrying of blades over a certain size or that lock out.

I don't necessarily believe bans are the way to go, people will always try to hurt others...this I don't understand! I don't agree with war, think the army should be put to use helping people build better societies without the need for violence, but we need EVERYONE to feel this way for that to become reality.

I always thought it a bit cheeky that our governments have nuclear warheads but are telling other countries they can't build some of their own!

Maybe the only answer to stopping shootings is to blow up the entire planet, then there won't be any humans left to cause hatred and destruction?
 
And as for the teachers attacking pupils, it is a regular thing for teachers to suffer a breakdown because of the class, I've heard of them attacking pupils all over the world....

What would also happen if the pupils got a hold of the teachers weapon?
 
sntaylor said:
"The rate of gun ownership is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but the murder rate is higher in urban areas"

Rural areas will use guns for more than just protection, it is also less densely populated so bound to have a lower murder rate.

I can't comment on what's wrong or right but I do know that my personalfeelings towards things are that I feel safe here in Scotland, knife crime is our current problem, we still have shootings, mainly in the criminal section in the cities. At least with knife crime, fewer people can be hurt at a time, and it has to be done at a closer range.

Our government is currently trying to make sure air guns illegal, or at least license only, I don't agree on this as I see them closer to knives than guns(not as powerful etc, depending on the gun itself)

Guns in school have to be a bad idea though...what happens when a teacher has a bad day and one particular pupil pushes them over the edge?
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copestag said:
I could be wrong on this........ but I havent heard of a whole lot of cases where a teacher had a bad day and resorted to deadly violence....... but even so.... what do they do now without guns in the schools?

Will having the gun there make them more prone to having a bad day? Are they more likely to want to kill someone with a gun than with a stapler if theyre having such a bad day that they feel the need to take a life?

Ban all staplers...... and rulers too..... in years past the nuns could be quite dangerous with those things.

I dont know that having teachers with guns is any more an answer than building 600ft steel walls around the schools...... but I do know that "having a bad day" isnt justification for preventing them from having them.

As far as knife violence as opposed to gun violence...... as has already been pointed out.. the same day this tragedy occurred.... someone in Asia stabbed 22 children...... up close and personal.

The homicide rates havent changed dramatically in Scotland since the gun ban 20 years ago...... theyve just changed weapons.

In Scotland 2/3 of homicides are committed with a knife.... so I agree thats your current problem....... are they trying to ban knives in Scotland?
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This is exactly our point. Scotland banned the guns, yet murder rates are unchanged. Only the weapon has changed. Now do you ban knives? Then baseball or cricket bats will be used. Ban those, people will use a tire iron.

This issue is violence. Let's address that, not the means or method or tools.
 
sntaylor said:
And as for the teachers attacking pupils, it is a regular thing for teachers to suffer a breakdown because of the class, I've heard of them attacking pupils all over the world....

What would also happen if the pupils got a hold of the teachers weapon?
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For the last incident in Sandy Hook, I doubt a 2nd-3rd grader would be capable of that.

But what would have happened if the principal of the school, who had only her unarmed person to put between the shooter and those innocent lives, had been trained and carrying an .45 semi with 7 rounds?

Perhaps she still would have died, but perhaps the shooter would also have been stopped.

If it would have prevented even 1 less child from dying, it would have been worth it to have the gun there.

They should go all around the U.S. and replace all the "Gun Free Zone" signs with "Easy Targets Zone" signs.

Because that's all they are with that fallacy.
 
rootbrain said:
For the last incident in Sandy Hook, I doubt a 2nd-3rd grader would be capable of that.

But what would have happened if the principal of the school, who had only her unarmed person to put between the shooter and those innocent lives, had been trained and carrying an .45 semi with 7 rounds?

Perhaps she still would have died, but perhaps the shooter would also have been stopped.

If it would have prevented even 1 less child from dying, it would have been worth it to have the gun there.

They should go all around the U.S. and replace all the "Gun Free Zone" signs with "Easy Targets Zone" signs.

Because that's all they are with that fallacy.
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By that logic so is just about every business in the country.
 
rootbrain said:
This is exactly our point. Scotland banned the guns, yet murder rates are unchanged. Only the weapon has changed. Now do you ban knives? Then baseball or cricket bats will be used. Ban those, people will use a tire iron.
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Well guns were restricted in the UK well before WWII, could be about 100 years ago now. So I wouldnt say 'murder rates are unchanged'. Murder rates in the UK are quite low, as in most of Europe.

Also, good luck killing someone with a tire iron from 30 metres away.
 
ElasticNinja said:
Well guns were restricted in the UK well before WWII, could be about 100 years ago now. So I wouldnt say 'murder rates are unchanged'. Murder rates in the UK are quite low, as in most of Europe.

Also, good luck killing someone with a tire iron from 30 metres away.
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not only that but killing 50 people within minutes. Just because right-wingers want to ignore logic it doesn't mean logic doesn't exist
 
speaking of logic....... and also blowing things out of proportion..... were 50 killed within minutes using a gun?

I guess I could easily say murder rates using flyswatters occur at 10 million per second....... that would hold just as much truth or weight as your argument

ban all flyswatters!!!
 
rootbrain said:
This is exactly our point. Scotland banned the guns, yet murder rates are unchanged. Only the weapon has changed. Now do you ban knives? Then baseball or cricket bats will be used. Ban those, people will use a tire iron.

This issue is violence. Let's address that, not the means or method or tools.
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Agreed, It Is The Violence That Is The Primary Issue, Along With The Circumstances That Cause The Violence (Depravation, Gang WarFare And Mental Illness/Bullying Etc)

Yes Gun Crime Will Always Be An Issue As Long As There Is Crime, But Criminals Don't Tend To Be The People Shooting Up Schools, Cinemas Etc.... Even Here In The UK We Have Had Crazed MurderErs Such As The Guy In Yorkshire With AShotgun Who Shot A Few People And ran Down Others.... Dead -Less Than Ten (Can't Search It As Phone Is Playing Up) Over A Period A Couple Of Hours. Had He Had Access To Automatic Weaponry, Who Knows How Many Would Be Dead!

Fact Is These Occurrences Are Far RaRer Over Here Than Over There!
 
copestag said:
speaking of logic....... and also blowing things out of proportion..... were 50 killed within minutes using a gun?

I guess I could easily say murder rates using flyswatters occur at 10 million per second....... that would hold just as much truth or weight as your argument

ban all flyswatters!!!
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no but 27 completely innocent souls were taken within minutes because of automatic and semi-automatic weapons. Making a ridiculous comparison to swatting flys doesn't change that and is disrespectful to the CHILDREN that were massacred by automatic weapons.
 
you have obviously never fired a gun....... 27 lives can be taken with a revolver in a very few short minutes just as easily........ the number of deaths had nothing to do with the type of weapon used.... it had to do with a crazy person on drugs

disrespectful is using exaggerated numbers........ and even more disrespectful is using their deaths to push an agenda that has nothing to do with their death whatsoever
 
copestag said:
disrespectful is using exaggerated numbers........ and even more disrespectful is using their deaths to push an agenda that has nothing to do with their death whatsoever
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wow. just wow. what are you smoking? so 27 deaths in the matter of minutes, which couldn't have happened without the use of semi-automatic weapons other than a bomb or an act of god, is sooooooo much more acceptable than 50 deaths in a matter of minutes? Do you even read what you post???
 
Getting a little close to attacking the poster than attacking the issue here ok.

It's a big issue with strong beliefs and lots to say and lots to debate.

Just keep it respectful for each other, cheers, thanks! :)
 
I deer hunt with a single shot breech load shotgun........ I can fire... eject the shell... put in a new shell...... and fire that next shot in about 3 seconds

so using my single shot I could fire 27 shells in about 1 1/4 minutes...... thats taking a couple of seconds to breathe

the number of deaths had nothing to do with the type of weapon...... or the fact that there was even a single death......... how many rounds did this guy use to kill his mom before he went to the school? did he need a semi to kill her? he was out of his mind...... he went there to kill people....... and quite honestly...... the fact that he only killed 26 in the long amount of time he had is quite a miracle...... he could have easily done the same amount of damage with a single shot

would you like to ban single shot weapons also?

hell in that amount of time he could have easily gotten 10 or more with a muzzleloader............ or a flyswatter

dont use this tragedy to push an agenda
 
Thechidz said:
you've convinced me1!!!!!! I SEE the light now!!!!! wow how could I have been so stupid?!?!?!?! no wonder there are so many massacres using guns in japan and england!!!!! thank you oh thank you for showing me the truth
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Fewer guns in Japan. Really hard to get guns in Japan. Apparently, a civilian cannot own a handgun in Japan. Apparently, you require a permit to own an air rifle. There no real right to privacy in Japan. You can be detained for perhaps one month while the authorities decide what to charge you with.

This is one reason we have protected rights to keep and bear arms. Our founders knew what the government could do.

Kids do not bring guns to school because they are very, very hard to get. Back in the day, they used swords.

Apparently, "Police and civilians can both be punished for any act of self-defense in which the harm caused was greater than the harm averted. Defend yourself and post the video on YouTube and expect to go to jail in Japan.

Apparently, if you bring a knife into Japan, you are perhaps gonna hate what happens to you. On the bright side, here in Utah, we can manufacture, sell and carry automatic knifes. On the other side, apparently, they are illegal.

Back in the day, swords were tested on prisoners condemned to death and lots of people died by the sword. Kids in Japan do not go nuts and some say it is their culture. Here, we have freedoms they do not enjoy in Japan.

I might suggest if there were millions of guns in Japan, you would see shootings there, too. there was a case where a janitor in Japan killed a bunch of kids with a knife.
 
Bob Maxey said:
I might suggest if there were millions of guns in Japan, you would see shootings there, too. there was a case where a janitor in Japan killed a bunch of kids with a knife.
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yes the Osaka school massacre in 01...... using a kitchen knife he killed 8 and seriously wounded 15 others .. including 2 adults

ban kitchen knives!!!
 
I know it's been said by myself and many others in this thread, but once again for the lunatic lefties who are deranged enough to think that outlawing or even regulating something will keep it out of the hands of people with bad intent:

Gun laws only prevent LAW ABIDING PEOPLE from legally purchasing guns. The mass murderers, serial killers, thugs, and crazies WILL STILL GET THEM. THEY DON'T OBEY LAWS!!!
 
Biggest school massacre in US history - Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Guess how many automatic weapons he had.
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Stop me if i'm wrong but were there many automatic weapons in the hands of the general public in 1927? If not it's a silly point to make.
 
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