18 Kids and 9 Others Shot Dead in CT.

[Bob Maxey]

Thats ridiculous if its true. My primary school had zero anti-massacre safety measures, no training, no metal doors, no armed guards, no drones etc. The idea of them getting sued due to someone coming in and shooting up the place seems mad.

WHAT? No drones? We need drones to save the kids. Big ones with big guns.

Am I jaded or am I correct to believe that it is possible the government will forget the police in every school or better detectors and spend several billiions on my new "Drones For Children" program. Hmmm . . .

I say we need drones. They are cool, they fly around and they have IR and ground penitrating radar. Missles or no?

 

[Bob Maxey]

Elimination of that "Gun Free Zone" bullchit and allowing, on a voluntary basis, teachers, faculty, and other employees of the public school systems all over the country to train, qualify and carry conceled weapons.

We have lots of ex-military folks that would likely be happy to help. Lots of folks want to help but they cannot because of rules that do nothing.

Again, I

 

[A.Nonymous]

Honestly, if we waved a magic wand today and got rid of every weapon that people could possibly use to kill someone else (guns, knifes, poisons, clubs, rocks, sharp sticks, etc....) then we would likely kill each other with our bare hands. And if you lopped off people's hands then we would use the stumps of our arms to beat each other to death and crush people's windpipes. The problem is one of human nature at the end of the day.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Honestly, if we waved a magic wand today and got rid of every weapon that people could possibly use to kill someone else (guns, knifes, poisons, clubs, rocks, sharp sticks, etc....) then we would likely kill each other with our bare hands. And if you lopped off people's hands then we would use the stumps of our arms to beat each other to death and crush people's windpipes. The problem is one of human nature at the end of the day.

Yummy, poisons. I can do poisons.

You are correct. It is human nature to some extent. And cartoon violence. I blame that.

That said, the stats seem to indicate that we are less violent today. I think it is the 24 hour news cycle and the web. We are bombarded with the same stories over and over. School shootings are not new, but it seems they occur more frequently these days.

I remember the horrors of Kent State, 1n 1970. Four died and it was huge news. CSNY sung about it in a song called "Ohio." Back then, there was no Internet and I was entering HS. I recall the stories and discussions but I largely ignored them because kids did not watch the news.

 

[rootbrain]

The media is largely to blame by sensationalizing these acts. Other crazies see all the attention given so it presses them forward and justifies their actions (in their minds).

And where would a crazy go? Anyplace with a "Gun Free Zone" sign. They know they'll be the only one shooting, at least for awhile.

It's not the semi-auto rifles that are the problem. Hell, with a S&W six shot revolver, some speed loaders and little practice, anyone could learn to make 10-20 kill shots on school kids (Gun Free Zone) in under the 10 minute average law enforcment response time.

This happened in Connecticut, a state with one of the most stringent gun control laws in the country. Did those laws help? No. Look at the past shootings in Norway and Switzerland. 2 countries with very strict gun control. In Norway, the shooter killed 69 people, mostly teenagers. Why? He had AN HOUR AND A HALF where he was the only one that had a gun. The authorities didn't respond until they could find guns that were comparable. Even the police couldn't come up with any. A couple of civilians with CCW permits and 2 45 automatics could have prevented most of that carnage.

 

[ElasticNinja]

A couple of civilians with CCW permits and 2 45 automatics could have prevented most of that carnage.

Given that Brevik had heavy weaponry I doubt that. Certainly not the bomb bit. And of course those peoples deaths would be offset by the massive rise in gun crime Europe would see. Its bad enough that Brevik was able to buy some of his arms legally in Europe in the first place.

 

[Bob Maxey]

The media is largely to blame by sensationalizing these acts. Other crazies see all the attention given so it presses them forward and justifies their actions (in their minds).

A good theory, but is it accurate? Not saying you are wrong because all I can do is Google and have a look see.

It is easy to blame the media and if they are responsible they should consider their actions. As for being accurate, I am not sure. Do we ban rap and violent video games? Then what is next?

I think it is partially the parent's faults but that is just a big, fat guess.

I did read where California gun sales are up but gun violence is down.

I read this: "Obama voiced skepticism about the National Rifle Association's proposal to put armed guards in schools following the Dec. 14 tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. The president made his comments Saturday in an interview that aired Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press."

Instead, the president vowed to rally the American people around an agenda to limit gun violence, adding that he still supports increased background checks and bans on assault weapons and high-capacity bullet magazines. He left no doubt it will be one of his top priorities next year."

So armed security in schools is bad but "rallying the American people around an agenda to limit gun violence" is what is needed? I think most of us want to limit violence. Does that need to be said?

Not sure limiting HC magazines is any kind of solution any more than increased background checks will stop people hell bent on mass murder. Those that shoot others in our schools do not buy the guns they use, so what good is a BC check? Don't we already have that?

 

[A.Nonymous]

Given that Brevik had heavy weaponry I doubt that. Certainly not the bomb bit. And of course those peoples deaths would be offset by the massive rise in gun crime Europe would see. Its bad enough that Brevik was able to buy some of his arms legally in Europe in the first place.

The failure in response is an epic fail on the part of the police force. Virtually every city in America would be equipped to respond to something like this ever since the LA robbery in the late 90s.

 

[ElasticNinja]

The failure in response is an epic fail on the part of the police force. Virtually every city in America would be equipped to respond to something like this ever since the LA robbery in the late 90s.

That is certainly part of it, but there still would have been dozens killed. Its a question of how much resources you appropriate, how much fear you create etc.

 

[A.Nonymous]

That is certainly part of it, but there still would have been dozens killed. Its a question of how much resources you appropriate, how much fear you create etc.

I don't think you create fear by training your officers to deal with a situation like this. By your logic virtually every American lives in fear because virtually every police officer in the US is trained in how to deal with a situation involving a heavily armed gunman and virtually every city has access to the firepower to deal with one as well.

 

[ElasticNinja]

I don't think you create fear by training your officers to deal with a situation like this. By your logic virtually every American lives in fear because virtually every police officer in the US is trained in how to deal with a situation involving a heavily armed gunman and virtually every city has access to the firepower to deal with one as well.

Well every American does seem to live in a lot more fear than I would deem necessary. Not really due to heavily armed police and guards but that would be a factor I guess.

 

[rootbrain]

A good theory, but is it accurate? Not saying you are wrong because all I can do is Google and have a look see.

It is easy to blame the media and if they are responsible they should consider their actions. As for being accurate, I am not sure. Do we ban rap and violent video games? Then what is next?

I think it is partially the parent's faults but that is just a big, fat guess.

I did read where California gun sales are up but gun violence is down.

I read this: "Obama voiced skepticism about the National Rifle Association's proposal to put armed guards in schools following the Dec. 14 tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. The president made his comments Saturday in an interview that aired Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press."

Instead, the president vowed to rally the American people around an agenda to limit gun violence, adding that he still supports increased background checks and bans on assault weapons and high-capacity bullet magazines. He left no doubt it will be one of his top priorities next year."

So armed security in schools is bad but "rallying the American people around an agenda to limit gun violence" is what is needed? I think most of us want to limit violence. Does that need to be said?

Not sure limiting HC magazines is any kind of solution any more than increased background checks will stop people hell bent on mass murder. Those that shoot others in our schools do not buy the guns they use, so what good is a BC check? Don't we already have that?

Sidwell Friends School. Google it. David Gregory, staunchly opposed to guns in schools, and President Obamas kids go to that school. They have 11 armed security forces at that school and are currently looking for a full time "police chief". And this does NOT include the Secret Service agents assigned to protect the Presidents kids. This is normal, and the reason may rich politicos send their kids there. They want to know they are safe and protected.

Why do these people want armed security at the schools their kids attend, but don't want it at ours kids schools?

 

[A.Nonymous]

Well every American does seem to live in a lot more fear than I would deem necessary. Not really due to heavily armed police and guards but that would be a factor I guess.

I don't think the average American lives in fear. That's my perception anyway.

 

[zuben el genub]

I'm more scared of inept teachers, and teachers with a groupthink mindset.

 

[rootbrain]

Well every American does seem to live in a lot more fear than I would deem necessary. Not really due to heavily armed police and guards but that would be a factor I guess.

I don't think the average American lives in fear. That's my perception anyway.

Americans that live in fear are those that are willing to give up their rights. Including the right to bear arms.

Should "we the people" fear our government or should it fear the people?

 

[PrinceCorwin]

Sidwell Friends School. Google it. David Gregory, staunchly opposed to guns in schools, and President Obamas kids go to that school. They have 11 armed security forces at that school and are currently looking for a full time "police chief". And this does NOT include the Secret Service agents assigned to protect the Presidents kids. This is normal, and the reason may rich politicos send their kids there. They want to know they are safe and protected.

Why do these people want armed security at the schools their kids attend, but don't want it at ours kids schools?

Exactly! The tyrants in Washington who want the public unarmed and unprotected will NEVER give up their guns and bodyguards. If all we need to protect people are "gun free zones (what a joke!)" then why isn't the White House a "gun free zone"? Answer: because they know that "gun free zones" accomplish nothing besides providing easy targets for perpetrators

 

[rootbrain]

Gun-Control Ignorance - Thomas Sowell - National Review Online

This guy thinks instead of knee-jerk reacting.

 

[Bob Maxey]

bearing arms should be a privilege, not a right. entitlement is the root of the problem

Well it is a right. One of the few rights we have and it is protected. Stop thinking that those who want guns believe they are somehow entitled. When people fail to protect our fundamental rights, the battle is lost. When people think of our rights in terms of entitlements, I cry a little.

 

[sntaylor]

The failure in response is an epic fail on the part of the police force. Virtually every city in America would be equipped to respond to something like this ever since the LA robbery in the late 90s.

Part of the problem was that brevik had set off a bomb, this created panic and confusion.it also meant that police forces were stretched, this had a large effect on the number of people shot afterwards. Lack of guns available to the police would only of played a small part. Brevik would have found another way to kill lots of people if it was in a similar setting to America. The only difference would be that rather than face trial, he would be dead..... that one is debatable on what is better for him!

 

[sntaylor]

"The rate of gun ownership is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but the murder rate is higher in urban areas"

Rural areas will use guns for more than just protection, it is also less densely populated so bound to have a lower murder rate.

I can't comment on what's wrong or right but I do know that my personalfeelings towards things are that I feel safe here in Scotland, knife crime is our current problem, we still have shootings, mainly in the criminal section in the cities. At least with knife crime, fewer people can be hurt at a time, and it has to be done at a closer range.

Our government is currently trying to make sure air guns illegal, or at least license only, I don't agree on this as I see them closer to knives than guns(not as powerful etc, depending on the gun itself)

Guns in school have to be a bad idea though...what happens when a teacher has a bad day and one particular pupil pushes them over the edge?

 

[copestag]

Guns in school have to be a bad idea though...what happens when a teacher has a bad day and one particular pupil pushes them over the edge?

I could be wrong on this........ but I havent heard of a whole lot of cases where a teacher had a bad day and resorted to deadly violence....... but even so.... what do they do now without guns in the schools?

Will having the gun there make them more prone to having a bad day? Are they more likely to want to kill someone with a gun than with a stapler if theyre having such a bad day that they feel the need to take a life?

Ban all staplers...... and rulers too..... in years past the nuns could be quite dangerous with those things.

I dont know that having teachers with guns is any more an answer than building 600ft steel walls around the schools...... but I do know that "having a bad day" isnt justification for preventing them from having them.

As far as knife violence as opposed to gun violence...... as has already been pointed out.. the same day this tragedy occurred.... someone in Asia stabbed 22 children...... up close and personal.

The homicide rates havent changed dramatically in Scotland since the gun ban 20 years ago...... theyve just changed weapons.

In Scotland 2/3 of homicides are committed with a knife.... so I agree thats your current problem....... are they trying to ban knives in Scotland?

 

[Thechidz]

all of the right-wing wackos are not getting it. We don't need to ban guns but we do need to ban automatic and semiautomatic weapons. There is NO good reason to have them in the public's hands.

 

[Thechidz]

Well it is a right. One of the few rights we have and it is protected. Stop thinking that those who want guns believe they are somehow entitled. When people fail to protect our fundamental rights, the battle is lost. When people think of our rights in terms of entitlements, I cry a little.

they are just as entitled as the people they whine about having to pay taxes to help our society function in a civilized manner

 

[copestag]

all of the left-wing wackos are not getting it. We don't need to ban guns. There is NO good reason not to have them in the public's hands.

fixed that for ya

 

[kool kat2]

all of the right-wing wackos are not getting it. We don't need to ban guns but we do need to ban automatic and semiautomatic weapons. There is NO good reason to have them in the public's hands.

There are so many people that are responsible with their weapons. They have them and don't frequent mass shootings often. Hell, imagine how crappy it would be to live in a high crime place and some natural disaster or something happens and the looting starts and all you have is a 5 round whatever. I would imagine it would be easier to protect your home, belongings, children, if you're heavily armed. And of course to overthrow the government.