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3d on the fly?

R

redninja

Member
Does anyone know if this phone will make non 3d content into 3d like tv's do? I was really stoked about it until I wondered that. I mean its not like there is readily availble 3d everywhere to make it worth the purchase. So if its not capable of 3d rendering, I dont intend on giving my cash away.
 
Doubtful. At least it's not a feature that they spoke about (and I feel if it was a feature they would be excited about it).
 
yeah, I doubted it also. I've been a tech geek for a long time, 36 years old, and just have finally gotten tired of the consumerism trick. So I may skip it, idk.
 
Have you actually seen this 3D on the fly tech? As underwhelmed as I am by "true 3D", I don't imagine this would really knock my socks off!
 
Do 3d tv's really do this? If I google 3d on the fly this thread is on the first page...

I always thought you need a 3d camera with multiple cameras at different angles to make a 3d effect.
 
Tempusfugit said:
Do 3d tv's really do this? If I google 3d on the fly this thread is on the first page...

I always thought you need a 3d camera with multiple cameras at different angles to make a 3d effect.
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You do, but look at all the movies that came out in 3D that weren't shot that way. The way they do that is essentially just raise layers from the movie shot in 2d to make it seem 3D. The effect, IMO, is pretty close to actually shooting it that way. I too am a little baffled at this supposed tech, but if it exists, the fact that it can do that is cooler to me than 3D itself LOL.
 
lordofthereef said:
You do, but look at all the movies that came out in 3D that weren't shot that way. The way they do that is essentially just raise layers from the movie shot in 2d to make it seem 3D. The effect, IMO, is pretty close to actually shooting it that way. I too am a little baffled at this supposed tech, but if it exists, the fact that it can do that is cooler to me than 3D itself LOL.
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Ya I can't imagine the exact tech, but I believe a team of producers with million dollar computers could probably do it...

You're 5000 dollar TV or 500 dollar phone and "on the fly," I agree with sdrawkcab

sdrawkcab25 said:
No Tv's that exist currently can make non 3d content into 3d.
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yes they can. theres no magical or expensive tech to it. i almost bought one, but decided to wait. its pseudo 3d. just like cyberlinks video software can render 3d on a computer ( my 2.2ghz laptop has no problem with it) or nvidias 3d thing can out of non 3d content. i just used on the fly. just google 2d to 3d conversion, tv's and dvd players do it. so what i mean by the consumerism trick is they will sell us the 3d phone without this, while they are very capable of including it, then when that cow runs out, they are like hey the new one does it to existing content, give us some more green, and were all like hell yeah we want it. such a scam, maybe im just getting old, or have just spent enough already on their trickle down tech for ultimate profit,idk.
 
You mind linking us to a product page? I am serisouly intrigued (and it would also put this controversy to bed).

EDIT: I googled it, but didn't actually find any products out on the market (admittedly didn't like terribly heavily into it). They do seem to claim to be able to do this though. Wonder how well it compares to native 3d format.
 
lordofthereef said:
Maximum PC | How To: Upgrade Your 2D Movies to 3D

I found this. This could be really cool for converting your 2d videos to 3d specifically for the EVO 3d. Still, wonder how well these compare. I didn't care for the "upconversion" nonesense that was supposed to make DVDs like Bluerays.
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Thanks for the link. Reading through the actual script, all it does is use a one-frame-delayed image for the right eye in the pair of images. This is the Pulfrich effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulfrich_effect), and I'll quote:
"Because the Pulfrich effect depends on motion in a particular direction to instigate the illusion of depth, it is not useful as a general stereoscopic technique. For example, it cannot be used to show a stationary object apparently extending into or out of the screen; similarly, objects moving vertically will not be seen as moving in depth. It can, however, be effective as a novelty effect in contrived visual scenarios."

In other words, it's a neat trick, but isn't going to let you convert your 2D movies to 3D in any effective way. Something like the recent Clash of the Titans is an example of taking a 2D movie and converting it to 3D, and the general consensus is that even with the millions of dollars and man-hours they spent on it, it still was only mediocre compared to a film shot in 3D.
 
Pulfrich Effect 3D. Now that's textbook gimmicky. Just like the upscaled DVDs. Blow up an image and then apply a sharpen filter over it. You can't create data that wasn't there in the first place.
 
I almost bought a samsung tv that does it. I tested it in store on non 3d content and was pretty impressed. Its not brand new tech either.

About SAMSUNG - SAMSUNG

Gizmodo, the Gadget Guide

The best 3D video, Blu-ray player & DVD player software ? PowerDVD 10

3D Vision Kit

I believe all 3d is, is offset images, hence the dual cameras on the phone. If the image is layed over itself as a double image that matches the 3d algorithim, it becomes a usable 3d image. I think thats all psuedo 3d does, and I think it works well. Now how this would work on a stereoscopic screen, idk. I also know xbox's and playstations will do it with a 3d capable tv. I would think if a dual core 1.2 cpu can push 3d, it should be able to overlay the images itself and create 3d content out of whatever you got. Which would be nice. I dont know if the processor can handle that or not. But if it can, (which i would say yes), and the ability is not included, then that sucks, and its purely from a longterm consumer profit driven decision to not include it. I wouldn't care if 3d was cutting edge, but its not, its been around a long long time. You all know they drag technology out until forced to innovate again.

edit..... If you guys think the effect is a gimmick, go to your best buy or whatever and check it out. The comparison to dvd vs blueray is silly. They are formatted different. 3D is an effect, yes 3d has grown over the years and become quite better, but in the end its still an effect. Lets not forget, 3d is still 2d that tricks the brain into seeing 3d. There is no image or piece of film that is true 3d, its all flat. A pop up book, true 3d.... A movie, 3d effect. I do think material shot specifically for 3d of course will be better, but its a phone, how much of that are you going to truely enjoy? I mean,it would be nice to give collected wallpapers and video the 3d treatment, or even browse the web in 3d could be fun, I dont know, i dont even know how good 3d looks on this phone anyway.
 
Thanks for the links. The key piece you're pointing at is from a company called "TriDef" that looks like it's attempting something more advanced than Pulfrich to extract 3D information. I notice that TriDef has software for converting 2D images to 3D, but I'll point out that it requires a bit of manual intervention -- essentially feeding it a depth buffer which it uses to do the stereo separation. But they do seem to have one that works automatically and in real-time, and thus can be included in TVs and playback software for video. Cool that they managed to pull it off at all. I'd be curious what techniques they're using, as depth-from-motion and especially depth-from-shape are nontrivial algorithms.

But I don't think this changes my assessment much: the results will be imperfect. If you think 3D is gimmicky at all, this is going to be even more gimmicky. It's a step below something like a manual 2D to 3D stereo conversion like Clash of the Titans 2010, which is turn below a film actually shot in stereo like Avatar.

Here's the best information I could find about it, as well as a mini-review:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/3d-polarized-projector,review-31849-16.html
Tom's seems to say it does a surprisingly good job, but it makes enough errors and so on that they had to keep the effect down to a minimum.

Note that video games and apps which render data in 3D are nearly trivial to get working perfectly in stereo. They already have a camera in world space; you just need to render twice as many frames, every other one with the camera slightly offset. (There may be a performance hit, but that's the only caveat.)
 
redninja said:
edit..... If you guys think the effect is a gimmick, go to your best buy or whatever and check it out. The comparison to dvd vs blueray is silly. They are formatted different. 3D is an effect, yes 3d has grown over the years and become quite better, but in the end its still an effect. Lets not forget, 3d is still 2d that tricks the brain into seeing 3d. There is no image or piece of film that is true 3d, its all flat. A pop up book, true 3d.... A movie, 3d effect. I do think material shot specifically for 3d of course will be better, but its a phone, how much of that are you going to truely enjoy? I mean,it would be nice to give collected wallpapers and video the 3d treatment, or even browse the web in 3d could be fun, I dont know, i dont even know how good 3d looks on this phone anyway.
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Sorry for two-in-a-row posts, but I thought it was weird to edit my response to include a response to an edit. :)

So to be fair, I actually think upconverted DVDs look pretty darn good with a good upscaler. (Not quite Blu-Ray, but still very good.) But resolution upconversion is an easier problem than extracting depth from a 2D image.

You do have some good points. I think you might get some disagreement about what "true" 3D really means, but you're correct that you can't change the optical depth, just the stereo separation. And I agree, I think there's no way that more 3D content could be viewed as a bad thing -- it doesn't hurt anyone that isn't into it to have it available. It simply sounded like you might have had higher expectations than was warranted for the 2D-to-3D "upconversion".

(Note that a lot of the criticism you're seeing in this thread is is for the Pulfrich effect; TriDef is apparently doing something much less gimmicky than Pulfrich. I wasn't aware of TriDef's solution being available commercially.)
 
Reading the other posts about this tech only able to do moving thngs in 3D, I have one thing to say. Who wants to see a stationary 3D object? Isn't the point of 3d to make you feel like the bullets and shrapnel are whirring past you? Who wants to see a guy set down a glass of water which then continues to pop out at you? In short, I don't see this any more or less gimmicky than "true 3d" is...
 
lordofthereef said:
Reading the other posts about this tech only able to do moving thngs in 3D, I have one thing to say. Who wants to see a stationary 3D object? Isn't the point of 3d to make you feel like the bullets and shrapnel are whirring past you? Who wants to see a guy set down a glass of water which then continues to pop out at you? In short, I don't see this any more or less gimmicky than "true 3d" is...
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not always, i think the whole stuff flying out of the movie is becoming less and less, seems to be growing into more a feeling of immersion, which you wont get out of a phone anyway. I feel like the whole 3d on a phone is nothing but gimmicky, because its a small screen, and really, how many 3d movies are you going to be dying to watch on phone? I think things like web and wallpaper would be really fun and not so gimmicky to enjoy, of course this isnt an option until next year i guess. Being able to shoot 3d video is cool, but really, how much of that can you enjoy, other than the gimmicky aspect of it being cool for a few weeks. I dont know, i'm way on the fence about it. Are we getting netflix, anyone know?
 
redninja said:
I feel like the whole 3d on a phone is nothing but gimmicky, because its a small screen, and really, how many 3d movies are you going to be dying to watch on phone?... Being able to shoot 3d video is cool, but really, how much of that can you enjoy, other than the gimmicky aspect of it being cool for a few weeks. I dont know, i'm way on the fence about it. Are we getting netflix, anyone know?
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Phone with 3D recording allows to produce own content which will be fun. Then do not think about movies, think youtube-type videos up/download.

Short (funny) content looks like the future for this type devices. Small screen is not a problem, it is watched from close and does not need glasses.

But in addition 3D TVs are in shops and before long every TV will have 3D support. People may like recording 3D clips on the phone and playing back on 3D TV, this is another level of fun with 3D glasses on:D.

This is kinda gimmick but youtube is a gimmick too with milions and millions using it.

In the end, there is whole area of X-rated content use. It is known that any technology which provided innovation in this area became very successful.
 
redninja said:
not always, i think the whole stuff flying out of the movie is becoming less and less, seems to be growing into more a feeling of immersion, which you wont get out of a phone anyway. I feel like the whole 3d on a phone is nothing but gimmicky, because its a small screen, and really, how many 3d movies are you going to be dying to watch on phone? I think things like web and wallpaper would be really fun and not so gimmicky to enjoy, of course this isnt an option until next year i guess. Being able to shoot 3d video is cool, but really, how much of that can you enjoy, other than the gimmicky aspect of it being cool for a few weeks. I dont know, i'm way on the fence about it. Are we getting netflix, anyone know?
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My poont was that it is boring to see stationary objects in 3D. Admittedly I have only seen maybe 4 movies in 3D that already didn't excite me. If they are going to be moving to having completely stationary crap pop out at me... I'll pass on the tech even faster.
 
lordofthereef said:
My poont was that it is boring to see stationary objects in 3D. Admittedly I have only seen maybe 4 movies in 3D that already didn't excite me. If they are going to be moving to having completely stationary crap pop out at me... I'll pass on the tech even faster.
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I get what your saying but i do think 3d wallpapers would be cool, at least for awhile. The hardware specs seem good, but really our market dont have much by way of games or apps that needs souped up hardware, kind of disappointing really. Regardless I'll probably end up with one. And it could very well end up being a fun phone, who knows.
 
redninja said:
I get what your saying but i do think 3d wallpapers would be cool, at least for awhile.
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I was referring purely to a television's ability to convert 2D to 3D here (since apparently objects MUST be moving for this to look good). Certainly you aren't talking wallpapers on your 3DTV are you? :confused:
 
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