• After 15+ years, we've made a big change: Android Forums is now Early Bird Club. Learn more here.

4th Amendment not applicable in Michigan?

A.Nonymous said:
I just read that Obama might've actually been born in Canada and that's why the kerfuffle over his birth certificate.
Click to expand...

This is so ridiculous I can't believe anyone is putting any stock in it what-so-ever. If he's actually a Canadian citizen and it's taken them this long to figure it out, then they deserve the dunce award for fact finding.

I mean it's only been 6 years since he announced he was going to run for president for Christ sakes.
 
gallandof said:
here in MA, i know cops will ask to see your cell phone if you have been pulled over for texting, not sure if thats allowed or not, but i've seen it done to friends. So now when driving I shut off mobile data so no one can text me.
Click to expand...

Ummm - that works?

I turn off 3G & 4G and still get texts - sms is 2G.
 
Outlaw71 said:
That is absolutely ludicris. They have no right to go through your phone during a traffic stop. I would hope that gets taken to the supreme court so that they can rule that an invasion of privacy.

If I ever get pulled over in Michigan I guess I'll pull the battery out of my phone so they can suck a bag of dicks.
Click to expand...

What if you are suspected of texting or using a cell while operating a vehicle and the police want to see if you actually did? There are laws on the books that make using your phone while driving illegal. Just asking, not defending the police in this matter.

If you are suspected of drinking, they can make you take a field sobriety test. In Utah, if you refuse you are arrested and a blood test will be done. At least that is how it once was.

I'll bet in most cases, if the police take your phone and demand it be looked at, whatever they find might not be allowed as evidence in court. Especially if you are accused of running a red light and the police try to explain why they wanted to look at your cell data.

Bob
 
Yes, they need physical possession of your device to do this, but as I put forth the example of "Do you submit to allow us to search your phone right now, or do you insist on waiting here, on the side of the road, indefinitely whilst we procure a warrant and bring it here- THEN retrieve your data?"- most people, especially the innocent, will submit, just so they can get it over with and get back to their daily routine. Likely, so will any criminal who thinks he has nothing to hide at the moment.

"Cooperate if you have nothing to hide, it will go easier and faster for all of us" is just a thinly veiled way to get you to give up your 4th Amendment rights, as I have said before. The fact that they have the ability to do this at all is disturbing enough- the fact they are hiding the information from the ACLU is downright frightening from the standpoint of personal liberty, and being protected from illegal search and seizure which, without a warrant, this would clearly be.
 
EarlyMon said:
Personally, I'd say never try to use tech to outsmart the police when they misbehave - that's what lawyers and courts are for.
Click to expand...

A short story about my dad.

He worked for Smith-Corona and was dragged into a higher level of tech screaming and yelling. His world was mechanical Marchant Calculators, Curtas, Photo Copiers, and other such things. His first experience with what we call 'High-Tech' was with a "computer" with upgradeable memory. In this case, it was 2k (k, not Mb) of core memory; a 5 x 5 inch thing with individual ferrite cores wired together in a lovely pattern, sitting on a large PCB, with the cores covered by clear plastic.

Anyway, somewhere along the line, he became involved with Radar Gun repair. He knew the law and the law allowed you to ask for calibration if the device was used to judge your speed.

In those days, calibration involved a tuning fork. Turn on the gun, slap the fork, and hopefully, the gun was calibrated properly.

So he asked the police officer to please calibrate his radar gun. Lots of arguments and such, but dad was adamant. He, and the cops, waited for more than an hour for someone to locate a tuning fork.

The gun was spot on.

Not sure what dad would do about cell phones. Probably not much.
 
EarlyMon said:
Sounds like a great guy!
Click to expand...

He has since passed, but he was a great guy. He could tear apart anything mechanical and make it better. He was lost, however when it came to electronics. Took lots of efforts to learn about modern devices, but he learned.

OT, but have you ever seen the insides of a Marchant (or other) large desktop calculator? Amazing thing to behold and hundreds of moving parts.
 
PGP_Protector said:
I wonder how hard it would be to put a reed switch in between the USB Port & the phone.
(Something like this) Reed Switch RI-80 SMD
Then the USB port would be Dead unless you've got the magnet used to close the reed switch.
Click to expand...

Why not ask the cops that pull you over if they have any legal right to ask for your cell phone. If they say yes and it is true, then that is that. If they say yes and they actually do not have any legal right, you have a case against the police.

Chances are this issue will be decided in court. Perhaps the SCOTUS gang will decide. But what if they decide it is acceptable, then what? If your state or city experiences this sort of thing, I think it is better to try to ban the practice in your area, because once the SC decides yes, things get a little worse.

Not sure what I would do if I were asked. Not much on my phone and if I were a crook, well, that's what disposable cells are for. Use and toss.

So let me ask. What if you are suspected of texting while driving. Is it easier to relinquish the phone should the cop want to check or simply argue about your rights and be taken downtown.

Then again someone has to toss the bales of tea in the harbor.
 
JimmyRayBob said:
this is a story that has been blown WAY out of proportion ...

The state troopers dont' carry these things in their cars, they are back at the station. And they are required to have a warrant to use them.

Can anyone actually say that the police USED one during a traffic stop???

MSP - April 20, 2011 - Use of Cell Phone Data Extraction Devices
Click to expand...

That is the basis behind the ACLU's case, as I understand it. And the stonewalling by MSP over FOIA requests by the ACLU only adds to the mystery.
 
Bob Maxey said:
So let me ask. What if you are suspected of texting while driving.
Click to expand...

I'm curious about this. I have a docking station in my car for my phone and my docking interface uses big fat buttons (larger than many of my car's stereo and climate buttons). I can make or answer a voice call with one single button which allows me for hands-free phone use.

I've been playing with my car dock's texting and I can use voice commands to send an entire text message using 3 presses. One to activate voice commands, ie; "Send Text Bob" a second press to activate voice-to-text to speak the message and the third press to Send. I wonder if that qualifies as legal? It's no more effort than if I were to turn on my radio and select a station. And if it IS legal, then how could they use their roadside device to burn me for texting? Can that device tell if it was hands-free or not?
 
omnius said:
Ever watch that Jesse Ventura show Conspiracy Theory? I only saw one episode but he was interviewing a technician contractor who claims he does a lot of work for all the 'alphabet' agencies in the U.S. and showed him a device that he said they use to pull all of the data out of your house and has a range long enough to reach from the street to inside a home. He said it can pull the entire contents of all of your wireless devices, all the way from PC's to your phones (without a warrant depending on which agency it is I might add). I think the tech is out there to do it, the question is has it reached street cop level? Maybe not yet, but unless it gets struck down in court, it could.

What you really should be asking yourself is considering how many of us use cloud based apps, and Google's love affair with the feds, does it really matter at this point? If the feds want your phone data, they can probably get it without even leaving their office on the other side of the country or telling you. I'm sure quite a few of you work or have worked for the gov't at some point. Do I really need to remind any of you who have for at least 10+ years that your employer pretty much did whatever they felt like notwithstanding legal technicalities and continued to do so until they were caught? And then once the attention faded away did it again?

I happen to know for a fact that phones belonging to criminal investigation suspects have been tapped for data/voice/text by my local heavy crimes unit. They don't need devices at traffic stops. However, I agree with you in objecting about such a blatant overt use of this on citizens who are NOT being investigated for any wrongdoing. If you're going to violate me, at least make some attempt to hide it so my butt doesn't hurt :p
Click to expand...
It is called a Kingfish. I can confirm first-hand that it does exist. Basically it is just a tuner that can receive anywhere from 800MHz to 6GHz for standard civilian mobile communications.. it intercepts them and can record voice conversations, convert voice to text, intercept texts/emails, file transfers, etc. The whole thing is only about the size of a briefcase. It might have more capabilities than that, but that's all I was exposed to.
 
omnius said:
I'm curious about this. I have a docking station in my car for my phone and my docking interface uses big fat buttons (larger than many of my car's stereo and climate buttons). I can make or answer a voice call with one single button which allows me for hands-free phone use.

I've been playing with my car dock's texting and I can use voice commands to send an entire text message using 3 presses. One to activate voice commands, ie; "Send Text Bob" a second press to activate voice-to-text to speak the message and the third press to Send. I wonder if that qualifies as legal? It's no more effort than if I were to turn on my radio and select a station. And if it IS legal, then how could they use their roadside device to burn me for texting? Can that device tell if it was hands-free or not?
Click to expand...

What do the laws say in your area? Hands free is allowed in my city.

Bob
 
A.Nonymous said:
Can't you intercept cell phone calls with nothing more complicated than a baby monitor anyway?
Click to expand...

The baby monitor must be designed to work on cell phone frequencies. Not sure what the BM frequencies are, but I doubt they are close. Secondly, the FCC will not allow any manufacturer to build receivers that can intercept cell phone calls.

Amateur radio operators are exceedingly polite and we tend to follow the rules. Yes, there are a few bad ops, but by and large, we obey the rules. And even we can't purchase radios that will receive those frequencies.

And yes, there are ways to modify the equipment in some cases.

So no, your BM wont likely work to pickup cell phone calls.
 
I always have this with me to block data thief police. :D

IMAG0568.jpg
 
Are cops even smart enough to use a cellbrite to grab info? Honestly most of them barely know the basic functions of a laser/radar. Point and click i guess. Let the techs back at the station make sense of it.
 
The clarification they sent did say that their either needed a warrant or the owner's consent. I could see them being heavy handed about the whole "if you have nothing to hide, hand over your cell phone," but if the owner keeps their cool and refuses, they can't do anything.

Of course if they find drugs or other evidence of wrongdoing in your car, then they can arrest you and check your phone that way.

I am more concerned about them seizing laptops, cell phones, tablets, flash drives, papers etc at the border when you travel. Apparently they don't need to show any probably cause. So your laptop, phone or tablet could be seized for months.

Travelers' Laptops May Be Detained At Border - washingtonpost.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom