All things GPS

[ZDroid1]

Actually, the only thing you stated your opinion on, was you didn't believe a fix was possible. The rest of your post, you state as fact. My reading comprehension is quite good.

Also, you still make the same mistake in regards to firmware.

FIRMWARE IS NOT SOFTWARE (though they are closely related). FIRMWARE IS NOT HARDWARE.

You need to learn the difference between the 3, because every time you mix them up, it makes you look completely uninformed. The issue is and has been a firmware issue. It isn't a hardware issue. The chip is fine. It isn't a software issue, it is also fine.

I'm still waiting for a link.

Your reading comprehension is bad. I never claimed to quote any sources and you ask for a link? Everything I say is my opinion unless I claim to quote a source. Learn English please.

Firmware is low level software. It its not related to software. It is a type of software. The argument stays the same. We all have the same firmware, so why does the gps work for some and not others?

 

[jeremytanner]

Don't want to feed further arguments here, but I thought I'd give my history and experience up to today, what has helped, and what didn't. Maybe it'll be useful to someone....

1) My GPS was never quite as flakey as I've heard some complain about. I did see it jump around some in My Tracks, and yeah, navigation on roads was a little screwy sometimes. But most of the time, it worked okay. I tried the LbsTestMode setting suggestions and could not even get a lock at all, so I reverted back to stock settings. (That being said, I never "use wireless networks.")

2) The JH7 update did not fully work for me. It "failed" although some components did get upgraded. I posted elsewhere in detail about that, if you're curious. Anyway, I suspect some GPS software did update, because after the "failed" update (which showed on my phone as having JH7) the GPS no longer worked at all. I could not lock onto satellites at all, using any program.

3) I flashed Odin, then used the latest Cognition mod, which included the JH7 firmware. Now my GPS seems to work flawlessly. I ran a dozen tests today, and the tracks were flawless in My Tracks. I didn't have any issues with locking onto 8-9 satellites, and I no longer jump all over. Accuracy shows 16m, and the tracks seem to be consistent.

Now, I originally speculated a while back that the GPS issues might be related to lag in the captivate itself, whether processor lag, or multitasking, or whatever. My experience here seems to support that theory, given that the Cognition mod has a lag fix in it. Whereas I was scoring Quadrant in the 870 range, I now score around 1300, and the snappy feel and responsiveness of the unit seems to mirror those results. I notice major lag changes in screen scrolling, app installs, and app running (especially in things like FolderOrganizer, Root Explorer, and RunKeeper.) So it's obvious to me that many of my apps are seeing benefit from the lag fix, and I'm really curious if the GPS/Interface might be as well, thus accounting for more consistent performance.

Anyway, sorry, I know that's a lot to read. And one person's experience does not proof make. I'd be interested to hear from anyone else that has the latest Cognition mod, whether your GPS seems to be more consistent than those without, or whether it's just the luck of the draw on my side.

 

[s.m.knipe]

Please provide specific makes and models of the "any other phone" group.

This sounds like sour grapes to me.

I can say that the N1 and G1 worked perfectly, locks always under a minute, down to 3 meter accuracy (the limit to a-gps, and sometimes my G1 would be even better than that). HTC has their GPS drivers together, I don't know about Motorola or Sony or LG, as I haven't owned any of their Android devices.

I will try to do a side-by-side comparison video of the N1 and Captivate in the GPS Status and GPS Test apps sometime this weekend. I don't have an extra sim card so I can't test Maps or My Tracks as they use Data (wifi could allow for location and give an unfair advantage)...

 

[Mr. GPS]

Many people are starting to get OTA update. You can also use the phone menu

 

[s.m.knipe]

The app GPS Status (in the market) has an option under its settings menu to reset then re-download the a-gps data (almanacs and such). But this would hurt reception until the data re-downloaded...

 

[Android_J]

EDIT: Sorry, I didin't realize the OP made this post back on 9/12 in regards to the JH7 firmware. However, the rest of my post still relates to the issue at hand.

Hey all,

The Captivate's GPS is STILL BROKEN in JH7 (the firmware released yesterday).

I tested my golf gps app today against a *laser rangefinder* as well as the course's plaque markers. It was either exactly on or 3-5 yards off. Some holes took about 45 seconds to get a lock but it never failed to lock over 18 holes in the hills.

1. GPS Devices were NOT DESIGNED TO WORK INDOORS. I do not care if you can or cannot get a lock indoors. The "GPS fix" is not addressing the signal attenuation from your roof. Please stop telling us your GPS is fixed because you can get a lock indoors.

GPS can and will get a lock indoors if your house is made out of wood or some other lightweight material and not steel. You might have to move next to a window but getting a lock indoors is not impossible.

2. The number of satellites you can see and get a lock on HAS BEEN FIXED FOR A LONG TIME.

No it hasn't. At least not officially from Samsung since this is the first time they've released an update. I have never been able to lock onto more than 5 sats before and 3 was the norm when it would lock. Now I can lock up to 10 sats.

3. The "accuracy" value of 32 / 16 feet is WORTHLESS. Just because GPS Status says 16 feet accuracy, does not mean it is accurate!

This sentence makes no sense. No, it's not worthless. The more accurate the GPS, the better.

This is because the REAL LINGERING PROBLEM WITH GPS IS....
ACCURACY and RELIABILITY in Google Maps & My Tracks.

I tested the GPS today on a 70 mile trip using Google Nav. It worked flawlessly except for a 2 mile stretch on the freeway near a bridge where it actually lost a lock. But it picked right up after that and worked well the rest of the way. Around town it has worked flawlessly. Might not be what you want to hear but it's the truth.

Take a drive in your car, or a walk with your GPS on using My Tracks. Did it look OK? Now do it for one or two more days. Once this track is accurate (no jumps, wanders, signal loss etc), the GPS will be fixed. I tested JH7 (latest Captivate firmware) against my wife's stock HTC Aria, and the Aria was perfect. The Captivate was losing signal, wandering off the road... sure I had 12 / 12 satellite locks the night before in less than a minute... Captivate was still near worthless for accuracy in a real-world driving test.

I don't use My Tracks so I can't verify but for everything else it works and works well, including Google Nav.

Anyway, I don't want Samsung to see a ton of "My GPS works!" and "This is the GPS fix!" posts, and have them stop working on the GPS problem.

Obviously there is still some sort of issue, but it could be a faulty batch of phones or something else. This latest firmware release has, for the most part, solved my GPS issues.

 

[marshall7712]

The GPS issues in the Captivate are not cleared up. You are only getting a temporary good signal because the phone has recently been rebooted. The GPS cache will fill and the almanac will have no place to update in the device. This causes confusion resulting in an improper signal. The driver designed to continuously empty the cache and update the device is failing. This is your problem in a nutshell. View and lock will always be good, but movement fills the cache and unless the cache is constantly emptied and refilled with new almanac info while moving there will be no true accuracy. 16ft. is nothing but shit if your life depends upon it. It also makes your $500 phone worthless as so much the phone does depends on an accurate GPS. This is why I went with the Iphone 4 after selling my Captivate. A smartphone is not smart w/o a smart inner workings. Samsung sucks. Android rocks! Iphone 4 works. Peace

 

[jeremytanner]

I tested my golf gps app today against a *laser rangefinder*

Was it a Samsung rangefinder?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[wampro]

For those of you having a problem with the captivate in real world testing please read you won't be sorry.


Guys I'm running a stock version of the Captivate, I did the update hoping to fix the GPS myself and to my dismay it fixed nothing and actually made my phone run worse. I called Galaxy S support and after some painstaking hold times I finally got thru to a level 3 support guy. I told him that the update downloaded and installed over the air properly, the phone rebooted on its own and that I was having the problems I stated earlier. He had me back up my phone (which it turns out I didn't need to as far as music and pics went) and then had me open the dialer and enter *2767*3855#. This immediately took the phone into what he called a "GSM Reset", this was different than the factory reset, it took all of 3 minutes if that and the phone was back up and running. He got off the phone with me and told me to call him back if there were any problems persisting. I immediately went outside, the gps got a lock in 8 seconds. I couldn't believe how fast it locked. My contacts were synced with at&t address book, as soon as I opened the contacts app the phone asked if I wanted to sync my phone, within 5 minutes every one of my 178 contacts had downloaded back into my phone. While my address book was syncing I noticed the pictures I was assigning to my contacts were reappearing. I checked my gallery and every single pic that was on the phone was still there, I then checked the music and all my music was there too. I immediately noticed how much faster the phone was running. I went to the adroid market, hit the menu button, selected downloads and all the apps that I had purchased and downloaded were there waiting for me to reinstall. I downloaded over the 3G network 30 applications in about 8 minutes. I think the update actually "clocked up" the processor, I can't believe how responsive the phone is, nor can I believe how much faster the internet is running.
Being skeptical that it was a temporary fix, I shut the phone off and restarted it, the gps locked again in 3 seconds this time. I tried the navigator built into the google maps app and it was flawless. It held a lock for 45 minutes straight. I then shut the phone off still skeptical restarted it a few times, got back in my car and drove home an hour from work, I intentionally didn't drive the route suggested to see how fast the phone would realize i was off course, everytime I "missed" a turn I looked at the phone and within 5 seconds it was rerouting and choosing a new route. I just checked google maps in my driveway and yes I was standing in my driveway! It took all of 4 seconds for my phone to tell me that, oh and wifi was turned off.



Trust me, follow the simple instructions and do a GSM reset, you won't be sorry.

 

[wampro]

The GPS issues in the Captivate are not cleared up. You are only getting a temporary good signal because the phone has recently been rebooted. The GPS cache will fill and the almanac will have no place to update in the device. This causes confusion resulting in an improper signal. The driver designed to continuously empty the cache and update the device is failing. This is your problem in a nutshell. View and lock will always be good, but movement fills the cache and unless the cache is constantly emptied and refilled with new almanac info while moving there will be no true accuracy. 16ft. is nothing but shit if your life depends upon it. It also makes your $500 phone worthless as so much the phone does depends on an accurate GPS. This is why I went with the Iphone 4 after selling my Captivate. A smartphone is not smart w/o a smart inner workings. Samsung sucks. Android rocks! Iphone 4 works. Peace

That's pretty funny considering the processor and about 5 other chips inside the iphone 4 were made by Samsung. Don't take my word for it, research it yourself. Oh the antenna, that was all apple.

 

[jeremye77]

Your experience may differ. I find that removing my body glove rubber/silicone case improves GPS reception significantly. I suspect (but have no evidence) the GPS receiver is on the top of the device and is covered and therefore hindered by the protective case. Testing multiple times...case on..case off seems to corroborate my theory. Accuracy increased by about twice as much when the case is not in place.

 

[Infinite-t]

For those of you having a problem with the captivate in real world testing please read you won't be sorry.


Guys I'm running a stock version of the Captivate, I did the update hoping to fix the GPS myself and to my dismay it fixed nothing and actually made my phone run worse. I called Galaxy S support and after some painstaking hold times I finally got thru to a level 3 support guy. I told him that the update downloaded and installed over the air properly, the phone rebooted on its own and that I was having the problems I stated earlier. He had me back up my phone (which it turns out I didn't need to as far as music and pics went) and then had me open the dialer and enter *2767*3855#. This immediately took the phone into what he called a "GSM Reset", this was different than the factory reset, it took all of 3 minutes if that and the phone was back up and running. He got off the phone with me and told me to call him back if there were any problems persisting. I immediately went outside, the gps got a lock in 8 seconds. I couldn't believe how fast it locked. My contacts were synced with at&t address book, as soon as I opened the contacts app the phone asked if I wanted to sync my phone, within 5 minutes every one of my 178 contacts had downloaded back into my phone. While my address book was syncing I noticed the pictures I was assigning to my contacts were reappearing. I checked my gallery and every single pic that was on the phone was still there, I then checked the music and all my music was there too. I immediately noticed how much faster the phone was running. I went to the adroid market, hit the menu button, selected downloads and all the apps that I had purchased and downloaded were there waiting for me to reinstall. I downloaded over the 3G network 30 applications in about 8 minutes. I think the update actually "clocked up" the processor, I can't believe how responsive the phone is, nor can I believe how much faster the internet is running.
Being skeptical that it was a temporary fix, I shut the phone off and restarted it, the gps locked again in 3 seconds this time. I tried the navigator built into the google maps app and it was flawless. It held a lock for 45 minutes straight. I then shut the phone off still skeptical restarted it a few times, got back in my car and drove home an hour from work, I intentionally didn't drive the route suggested to see how fast the phone would realize i was off course, everytime I "missed" a turn I looked at the phone and within 5 seconds it was rerouting and choosing a new route. I just checked google maps in my driveway and yes I was standing in my driveway! It took all of 4 seconds for my phone to tell me that, oh and wifi was turned off.



Trust me, follow the simple instructions and do a GSM reset, you won't be sorry.

This sounds somewhat believeable (not the credability of the poster himself, but the method and explanation) has anyone else tried this and have any info. I am temped to do this myself but not looking forward to backing up and re-installing everything until I have time to go thru all of that.

 

[qwertyaas]

For those of you having a problem with the captivate in real world testing please read you won't be sorry.


Guys I'm running a stock version of the Captivate, I did the update hoping to fix the GPS myself and to my dismay it fixed nothing and actually made my phone run worse. I called Galaxy S support and after some painstaking hold times I finally got thru to a level 3 support guy. I told him that the update downloaded and installed over the air properly, the phone rebooted on its own and that I was having the problems I stated earlier. He had me back up my phone (which it turns out I didn't need to as far as music and pics went) and then had me open the dialer and enter *2767*3855#. This immediately took the phone into what he called a "GSM Reset"...



Trust me, follow the simple instructions and do a GSM reset, you won't be sorry.

I will be trying this tomorrow. A Samsung Rep also told me to do a factory reset until the GPS Fix is released (yes, he stated the GPS Fix wasn't yet released).

Edit: Nevermind, apparently it doesn't give you an option if you want to continue with the format so I am in the process now Hopefully this works!

Well... that didn't work. Before I had 12 satellites with 0 in use, now I have 0 satellites and 0 in use... Ah well.

 

[Andyman10]

I am based in the UK and the latest official update for this region available via Kies a couple of days ago (no OTA available) is JM2 (Settings->About phone->Build Number)..which incidentally does very little if anything for GPS issues. I suspect many users aren't going to be willing to root their phone or 'manually apply' update roms from other sources so..which area are you in?

I think the aim to quantify things a bit more objectively is great but I think there may be a few other issues in doing an 'apples for apples' type comparison.

I suspect that SNR is the key issue here and that is going to vary wildly depending on what your phone is doing at the time you do the tests..and even more crucially..how far you are from a mobile base station.

Power management in mobiles is really quite sophisticated and the further you are from a cell tower the more power the module inside your SGS is going to use to transmit it's signal. It's definitely a generalisation but the more power that is drawn through the system the more local noise it's going to create and that is going to affect the perceived GPS SNR. This is because the athmospheric noise is relatively stable, as is the signal, and what tends to vary most is local noise from the environment and the device itself. Move even a few miles (or yards!) and impair the signal from the mobile tower and the transmit power and local noise could change dramatically..and so will the SNR.

I share everyones frustration in the GPS performance issues on the SGS but I think any definitive answers need to come from Samsung themselves. There would appear to be many, many users experiencing effectively useless GPS so perhaps we should start an e-petition, get a few thousand names on it and make that very public and really start putting some PR pressure on them to come clean?

 

[Andyman10]

Hi All,

Interesting. If I put my SGS in flight mode (all other GPS settings as stock, i.e. standalone non-aGPS mode) then it sees satellites much quicker and locks and stays locked much better, even with an obscured view of the sky indoors. In flight mode of course the mobile phone module is powered down. The other thing I noticed is that whenever the screen display times out and shuts off and I press home to bring it back..it momentarily loses all of the satellites in view and has to re-acquire them. I suppose the GPS driver could be shutting down as well, though that would surely have to be a bug so probably not. That would tend to suggest that the sudden current drain and/or CPU overhead from the display switch-on is causing problems. Anyone else notice this on their SGS?

Not very scientific..I'll see if I can work out something a bit more controlled...but it really does look like noise from the other components on the device is messing up the GPS more than anything else I do.

One more thought here..does anyone have a rooted SGS? There is a setcpu speed tool for Android that could be used to vary the CPU speed. If it is noise emanating from the CPU bus then varying or limiting the CPU speed should cause the bus noise envelope to shift..be interesting to see if that caused any changes in GPS performance .

 

[mratlndmrk]

The app GPS Status (in the market) has an option under its settings menu to reset then re-download the a-gps data (almanacs and such). But this would hurt reception until the data re-downloaded...

I can verify that doing this reset makes a big difference. I got instant (under 20 seconds) shortly after going through this process. For the OP in GPS Status:

settings - GPS & Sensors - manage A-GPS state - reset - then download

 

[wampro]

This sounds somewhat believeable (not the credability of the poster himself, but the method and explanation) has anyone else tried this and have any info. I am temped to do this myself but not looking forward to backing up and re-installing everything until I have time to go thru all of that.

Dude I don't know why you have to call my credibility into question, I was merely offering a solution that worked for me, in the hopes of helping others with a phone which truly is a great device. I've owned an Iphone 3gs, I have extensive experience with the Iphone 4, I can tell you the Captivate is superior to both phones. I just want everyone to receive the joy and satisfaction which I have with their phones.

 

[DynaBlue]

Interesting observation, Andyman10. I just turned on airplane mode, went outside and ran GPS Test. Within 30 seconds I had 8 in view, 5 sats in use. at 2:02 I had 11 in view, 7 in use. My SNR on the used sats was very steady at 33 up to an observed high (on this phone) of 41. I went back and turned off airplane mode and reaccessed GPS Test and it relocated all the sats within seconds but the SNR was back down in the 24-33 range on all in use sats. Might bear further testing.

Oh, and sitting at my desk which is right next to a window, about a 14" below the sill, I normally can't lock any sats though it will usually see about 2. With the airline mode turned off I saw and locked 8/5 almost immediately. Once airline mode was turned back on the phone still sees/uses 7/3 up to 8/6. Perhaps the answer is to go airline mode, lock your sats, then turn your Captivate into a phone again?

GPS Test seems to lose the sats and has to reaquire whenever you switch away from the app to something else, like the home screen, not just when the screen times out.

 

[MSchaff30]

Your experience may differ. I find that removing my body glove rubber/silicone case improves GPS reception significantly. I suspect (but have no evidence) the GPS receiver is on the top of the device and is covered and therefore hindered by the protective case. Testing multiple times...case on..case off seems to corroborate my theory. Accuracy increased by about twice as much when the case is not in place.

I never thought of this and just tested it out, I launched the GPS test app from within my house with a Body Glove case on, set the phone on my couch and didnt touch it, it had 4 satellites in view but did not lock on or "use" any of them, it would not give me a accuracy reading. I then left the GPS Test app running and took the case off, set the phone back down and within 5 seconds it was viewing 7 satellites and using all of them, accuracy locked in to 30 feet. I continued to let GPS Test run and put the case back on, within 15 seconds it went back to viewing 6 satellites and using none of them, accuracy went to 90 feet and then down to 0 (no lock).

Also, with the case off, I covered the top of my phone with my hand (like testing the iphone4 antenna issue) and it almost immediately killed the lock on the satellites, my accuracy went from 30 feet to no lock in seconds. I tried this is Google Maps, with the case on, it put me around 300 yards away from my house with a big blue circle around the arrow, took the case off and it basically locked me into my driveway.

I have a stock phone and completed the update 3 days ago. So would this be a hardware (antenna) issue?

 

[Infinite-t]

Dude I don't know why you have to call my credibility into question, I was merely offering a solution that worked for me, in the hopes of helping others with a phone which truly is a great device. I've owned an Iphone 3gs, I have extensive experience with the Iphone 4, I can tell you the Captivate is superior to both phones. I just want everyone to receive the joy and satisfaction which I have with their phones.

Please re-read my response to your post...
Perhaps I worded it a bit differently than some would, but I wasn't attacking your credibility, in fact, quite the contrary. Please excuse me, I don't use "American English".

 

[qwertyaas]

I tried the factory reset on my phone. Still nothing...

 

[gocats7]

The reset and then GPS working is something I have experienced lately. I did a full reload with Odin on a captivate that would not get a lock no matter what. As soon as I turned it on, it locked immediately. It degraded again over time. Loaded cognition it, was tons better right off the bat and stayed better although it did degrade a bit. Two reloads, two immediate improvements with it getting worse over time.

Got a second captivate, this one had JC6 or whatever the old version was and it had twice as strong a signals as my first captivate side by side no matter which ROM was on it. Even the second captivate degraded a bit right off the bat though. I loaded cognition on the second captivate and so far so good but still a slight degredation from where it was directly after full reload.

My point is, as I referenced in another post, maybe it has something to do with GPS data that is stored on the device, temp files, something along those lines that is written, accessed, saved, etc over time. The gps on my first captivate sucked from day 2 on....until I reloaded it which would clear everything but put the same software right back on it that was there before. To me that isnt just a driver, etc. That is something that accumulates or can be corrupted somewhat over time. I do not know what files that is on the captivate though nor am I willing to screw up the one I have working now.

I do think the second captivate I got does pick up signals better in general and I think this is potentially somewhat hardware based such as antenna placement in the device, etc. but I also believe that the degredation over time could be related to what I have described here. I have rebuilt enough PC's it makes good sense to me.

 

[lordhamster]

Also, with the case off, I covered the top of my phone with my hand (like testing the iphone4 antenna issue) and it almost immediately killed the lock on the satellites, my accuracy went from 30 feet to no lock in seconds.

All phones use antennas. Covering the antenna on any phone will make the signal strength decrease. This is especially critical when talking about weak signals like GPS.

Despite what the Apple bashers tell you, no phone will work well if you cover it's antenna. The problem with iPhone 4 is not Covering the antenna, but rather touching certain points on the phone would essentially merge the two tuned antennae into one untuned antenna. Putting the antenna on the outside where people grasp it regularly when just holding the phone was the design problem. NOT the fact that blocking signal makes signal go down.

 

[gocats7]

I do not think a factory reset will do it. A factory reset did nothing to my first captivate. Odin is SIMPLE to use, I knew nothing about it until the other day and it made a world of difference at least for a while.

I am not saying that this is the fix for everyone or even a fix, I am speculating about what the problem is based on my experiences on two captivates and what made a difference in them. At this point, running cognition on my second captivate, mine is solid on GPS.

 

[kleugers84]

Saw this in another forum, seems someone has found a workaround for the GPS issue(or at least the one I am experiencing). I have read where some are not noticing any problems with their GPS but since purchasing my Epic I have been almost incapable of getting a GPS signal lock, even outside on a clear day. I would open up maps and it would just sit there saying 'getting location' forever.

After following this workaround even inside I get a lock within seconds and it works perfectly!

BTW, to enter the code to open the GPS settings menu for step #1, go to the Phone app and enter it like you're entering a phone #.

GPS cache bug workaround, tested, working - Android Forums